Hacking Any problems with EDGE flashcart?

[Bri]

According to Wikipedia (emphasis mine):

Reverse engineering (RE) is the process of discovering the technological principles of a device, object or system through analysis of its structure, function and operation. It often involves taking something (e.g. a mechanical device, electronic component, or software program) apart and analyzing its workings in detail, usually to try to make a new device or program that does the same thing without copying anything from the original.

Definitions aside, where do you suppose they got the source code for the CycloDS firmware from, and wouldn't it be possible to determine whether some or all of the code was copied?

-Bri

 

[Urza]

According to Wikipedia (emphasis mine):

Reverse engineering (RE) is the process of discovering the technological principles of a device, object or system through analysis of its structure, function and operation. It often involves taking something (e.g. a mechanical device, electronic component, or software program) apart and analyzing its workings in detail, usually to try to make a new device or program that does the same thing without copying anything from the original.

usually to try to make a new device or program that does the same thing without copying anything from the original.

Emphasis mine. Not everyone who has ever done anything that could be classified as "reverse engineering" (which is a very broad term) is doing it for the same goal. Lets try to keep this discussion logical.

QUOTE

Definitions aside, where do you suppose they got the source code for the CycloDS firmware from, and wouldn't it be possible to determine whether some or all of the code was copied?

Are you even paying attention? If they had the source code there would be no point to reverse engineering the firmware, because they would have already had everything they need.

 

[Bri]

Not everyone who has ever done anything that could be classified as "reverse engineering" (which is a very broad term) is doing it for the same goal.

I don't recall implying otherwise.

QUOTEIf they had the source code there would be no point to reverse engineering the firmware, because they would have already had everything they need.

Exactly my point, Urza.

You said that "essentially, the goal was to get the CycloDS firmware to run natively on new hardware, which they did." Except that they didn't. The CycloDS firmware doesn't run natively on their hardware.

I've seen no evidence that the firmware that is running on the Edge is anything but their own code designed to look and operate similar to the CycloDS firmware.

-Bri

 

[sk3tch]

You said that "essentially, the goal was to get the CycloDS firmware to run natively on new hardware, which they did." Except that they didn't. The CycloDS firmware doesn't run natively on their hardware.

I've seen no evidence that the firmware that is running on the Edge is anything but their own code designed to look and operate similar to the CycloDS firmware.

-Bri

They're passing the EDGE off as a new product and using the CycloDS assets.

1) Similar PCB.
2) Similar GUI.
3) Firmware releases that are released a week or two after CycloDS releases.

It's all conjecture...but any rational, sane person can reasonably assume that the EDGE is a clone of the CycloDS. Do you own both? I do. They look, feel, etc. the same. The EDGE is just missing the 16mbit on-board memory which obviously limits what they can copy within the CycloDS firmware. So they copy everything else, rebrand it EDGE, and presto.

 

[Urza]

I don't recall implying otherwise.
You were implying that after reverse engineering the firmware, they didn't use it.

QUOTEYou said that "essentially, the goal was to get the CycloDS firmware to run natively on new hardware, which they did." Except that they didn't. The CycloDS firmware doesn't run natively on their hardware.

I'm obviously not referring to the hot-off-the-download firmware from the CycloDS site. Of course that will not work.

I'm referring to the EDGE loader, which is the old CycloDS firmware, but has been modified to run on the EDGE cart.

I've seen no evidence that the firmware that is running on the Edge is anything but their own code designed to look and operate similar to the CycloDS firmware.

WHY GOD WHY.

Its quite apparent that you aren't too keen on the technical side of things. Please stop, because this thread is turning into me answering your continuous stream of baseless, repetitive, and counterproductive questions.

 

[Bri]

You were implying that after reverse engineering the firmware, they didn't use it.

I was? I think I'd remember implying something like that. Nope, I just re-read my posts and I can assure you I wasn't.

I'm referring to the EDGE loader, which is the old CycloDS firmware, but has been modified to run on the EDGE cart.

How does one modify the loader without source code, particularly to make it run on a cart with missing hardware?

QUOTE(Bri @ May 6 2008, 05:18 PM)

Please stop, because this thread is turning into me answering your continuous stream of baseless, repetitive, and counterproductive questions.

Really, Urza, I like you and am concerned for your well-being. I'd hate for that throbbing vein in your temple to explode. If it's so much effort to impart your extensive knowledge to others, then by all means don't do it.

-Bri

 

[Bri]

It's all conjecture...but any rational, sane person can reasonably assume that the EDGE is a clone of the CycloDS. Do you own both? I do. They look, feel, etc. the same. The EDGE is just missing the 16mbit on-board memory which obviously limits what they can copy within the CycloDS firmware. So they copy everything else, rebrand it EDGE, and presto.

I'm not saying they haven't done just that, but I'm curious as to what they would have to gain from doing so, since it seems like it would be nearly as much more work to continually reverse engineer someone else's firmware and modify it to work with their hardware after every release than it would be to write their own. It would also seem possible for Team Cyclops to write something into their firmware that would require the extra hardware to be present for it to work properly, which could put an abrupt end to updates for the Edge.

To answer your question, no I don't own either cart, although I fully believe everyone who has said that the firmware is the same other than, I presume, a lack of certain functionality that only the CycloDS has.

At any rate...it is not my intent to hijack this thread or to upset Urza any longer. So thanks to everyone for answering my questions!

-Bri

 

[Topfragger]

Edge is shite
Edge team=Highway robbers
the Edge is just a cash cow.

want a better budget card? get the SCDS1, the price difference is basically 10$ and if you think that's expensive get da fak outta here.
i've heard from some sources that the Edge is sold out of factory for more than the Cyclo is sold out of factory.
and the Edge doesn't have a real team behind it, they just made a clone of the Cyclo and their not really intending to stand behind the product, it's just for money making purposes.
like the DSTT

Don't support copycats, otherwise your screwing over Team Cyclops and encouraging people who stole from them.

like i said before, get the SCDS1 if you want a cheap awesome flashkit

 

[Urza]

Edge is shite
Edge team=Highway robbers
the Edge is just a cash cow.

want a better budget card? get the SCDS1, the price difference is basically 10$ and if you think that's expensive get da fak outta here.
i've heard from some sources that the Edge is sold out of factory for more than the Cyclo is sold out of factory.
and the Edge doesn't have a real team behind it, they just made a clone of the Cyclo and their not really intending to stand behind the product, it's just for money making purposes.
like the DSTT

Don't support copycats, otherwise your screwing over Team Cyclops and encouraging people who stole from them.

like i said before, get the SCDS1 if you want a cheap awesome flashkit

Once again, nobody cares.

 

[OldPoem]

Even the 128 files numbers per folder limitation in CycloDS also exist in EDGE. Definite a clone.

 

[Topfragger]

Once again, nobody cares.

NO YOU FABRIC People obviously care if their going insane and ranting trying to deny the Edge isn't a reverse engineered clone of the Cyclo DS

 

[Urza]

Once again, nobody cares.

NO YOU FABRIC People obviously care if their going insane and ranting trying to deny the Edge isn't a reverse engineered clone of the Cyclo DS

Hardly.

Thats just what we do to pass the time around here.

 

[ojsinnerz.]

I honestly don't give a fuck if I'm buying a cloned product.

As long as it does what it's supposed to, and does it well, I'm fine.

"NO YOU FABRIC People obviously care if their going insane and ranting trying to deny the Edge isn't a reverse engineered clone of the Cyclo DS"

Yea, it is a clone, so what? I don't give a fuck.

 

[JSalcedo]

I honestly don't give a fuck if I'm buying a cloned product.

As long as it does what it's supposed to, and does it well, I'm fine.

"NO YOU FABRIC People obviously care if their going insane and ranting trying to deny the Edge isn't a reverse engineered clone of the Cyclo DS"

Yea, it is a clone, so what? I don't give a fuck.

You will when the team "supporting" it disappears and you are left with an outdated product.

 

[Urza]

I honestly don't give a fuck if I'm buying a cloned product.

As long as it does what it's supposed to, and does it well, I'm fine.

"NO YOU FABRIC People obviously care if their going insane and ranting trying to deny the Edge isn't a reverse engineered clone of the Cyclo DS"

Yea, it is a clone, so what? I don't give a fuck.

You will when the team "supporting" it disappears and you are left with an outdated product.

Not likely to be an issue, since it has one of the highest release-day compatibility rates of all available carts.

 

[Unchi-san]

Once again, nobody cares.

NO YOU FABRIC People obviously care if their going insane and ranting trying to deny the Edge isn't a reverse engineered clone of the Cyclo DS

Attack of the Cyclo fan-boys.... again

 

[Topfragger]

I'm not a Cyclo fanboy i own an Acekard 2 and am ordering a SCDSone

Theres nothing fanboyish about scalding people for supporting pirates

 

[Urza]

Theres nothing fanboyish about scalding people for supporting pirates

How can you not realize whats wrong with that statement?

Spoiler: Hint

FLASHCART USERS SUPPORTING PIRACY?

NO WAY.

 

[Unchi-san]

Theres nothing fanboyish about scalding people for supporting pirates

How can you not realize whats wrong with that statement?

Spoiler: Hint

FLASHCART USERS SUPPORTING PIRACY?

NO WAY.

ouch Topfragger just got served lol

 

[kennexionz]

Theres nothing fanboyish about scalding people for supporting pirates

How can you not realize whats wrong with that statement?

Spoiler: Hint

FLASHCART USERS SUPPORTING PIRACY?

NO WAY.

Lols~~ It was way obvious... I was wondering where is he trying to get to....

I own an Edge ... have seen any problems.. I love it ^.^

It is cheap and it is good.... that is all that matter... and IF the support does goes away... jus buy another card... WTF... we are not doing a bloody lifetime investment!... sheesh.. some ppl are just implying the wrong things at the wrong place...