canceled​

 

[Thorhax]

So I'm getting a modchip OLED soon and am very much looking forward to testing things out.

 

[Spacemooncow]

I'm getting a fatal error with sys-clk saying its not running. Halp

 

[Shrubber]

Interesting thread with some great back and forth! I for one always appreciate freedom and options, and would prefer not to be prescribed a narrow mode of device usage due to owning an Erista model. Just having the possibility to push my device to the limits without being barred by an absence of esoteric hacking skills is empowering; even if I would certainly err on the side of caution in reality. If I were to use such tools I'd gladly accept the risks knowing full well that it would probably lead to a shortened lifespan; I'd be thankful to the facilitator and various authors for the opportunity. For some, pushing your hardware to the limits is a pursuit in and of itself where longevity is the complete opposite expectation, and simply a bonus. However, speaking realistically in my specific case as someone who wants to keep their Switch running for a long time yet (but wouldn't flame people if it blew up tomorrow due to my risk-inherent choices), my understanding is that increasing the power consumption substantially would at the very least noticeably degrade the battery life and endurance.

Therefore, what I'm most interested in for Erista, is what can be achieved in the way of more or less free performance (or with lowish power increases). My basic understanding of overclocking is that in general it's the additional voltage that you're applying that increases the power consumption and stresses the hardware. Is it not possible to increase the CPU/GPU clock speeds without increasing the voltage? In order to keep power consumption more or less the same? I find it hard to believe that NVIDIA would have binned every single SoC to the extent that there is uniformly zero headroom for such an increase.
Separately, the community seems to be in agreement that the RAM patches are low risk and it would be excellent to be able to use these in an accessible manner. It would be highly useful to be able to tweak the CPU/GPU/RAM clock speeds and possibly voltage without requiring patching system files.
Frequently, what is bandied about is Erista's inability to handle the power draw, but this always seem to be mentioned in conjunction with loads of 40 watts. Is anyone actually qualified to make general statements about Erista's ability to handle it and at what point is it an exponentially-elevated risk? It seems to be a nuanced field and that you'd need to seriously know your hardware to make that assessment fairly even if highly gifted in other areas.
So it would be interesting to know if any compromises could be achieved, maximum performance with minimal additional risk/power draw.

 

[3DSBricker]

ZachyCatGames is more than qualified to make those claims. As far as CPU clock goes, do what you want. As long keep the power draw in mind. GPU on the other hand is proven (by me and a few others like KazushiMe) to be exactly the same as 921MHz on Erista. On Mariko performance is identical from 1305MHz and up. Though always keep an eye on the temperature as that's what accelerates degradation.

 

[UnT7oh]

@Foxi4 the original poster and further gbatemp are now in clear violation of MIT and GPLv2 licenses.

You commented 10 days ago that you would seek to respect relevant licenses yet you immediately deleted my post alerting both yourself and other users to this fact, please can you explain these actions? Thank you.

 

[Foxi4]

@Foxi4 the original poster and further gbatemp are now in clear violation of MIT and GPLv2 licenses.

You commented 10 days ago that you would seek to respect relevant licenses yet you immediately deleted my post alerting both yourself and other users to this fact, please can you explain these actions? Thank you.

Absolutely. You don’t get to tell me what to do, or in what timeframe - I don’t work on your dime, and by the way, neither does the OP. I’ve chosen to give the OP the opportunity to comply with the assorted licenses - that takes time. I’ll get to decide if an attempt was made, not you. I don’t expect a hobbyist to jump up and down to the tune of random internet comments - we all have a life. Throwing your weight around generally ends poorly when you’re a lightweight - if you claim the release is non-compliant, tell the OP why and how he can fix that. If you’re only here to disrupt the thread, that kind of input isn’t needed. That’s the primary reason why your post was deleted - I don’t take orders from forum members, enforcing our rules is *my* job.

To reiterate, which specific part of the zip is non-compliant with what license, why, and what is the remedy, so that the OP can actually make a meaningful and satisfactory update? Because you come across as someone who just wants it removed altogether, rather than “fixed”. I say this because you roll in telling *me* what to do, which is very unwise. It’s early morning and I haven’t had my morning brew yet.

 

[smf]

My basic understanding of overclocking is that in general it's the additional voltage that you're applying that increases the power consumption and stresses the hardware. Is it not possible to increase the CPU/GPU clock speeds without increasing the voltage? In order to keep power consumption more or less the same? I find it hard to believe that NVIDIA would have binned every single SoC to the extent that there is uniformly zero headroom for such an increase.

My understanding is that with overclocking you normally undervolt. While overclocking increases the amount of current. The faster you switch, the more current is drawn and the more heat is generated.

For all I know, NVIDIA might have sold Nintendo parts that were speed binned even lower than Nintendo are already running them at. It's not unprecedented, Microsoft used cheap rejected memory in the original xbox. At startup the xbox does a memory test at different clock speeds to find one where it works. So each console runs at a different speed.

The github explains the difference between Erista and Mariko.

"Tegra X1 on Erista is on TSMC 20nm HPM node, consumes much more power (~2x) and generates much more heat, compared to Tegra X1+ on Mariko (TSMC 16nm FinFET).

• Snapdragon 810 (4 x A57 @ 2.0GHz + 4 x A53) also uses 20nm HPM, see how it plagued Android phones in 2014."

 

[UnT7oh]

Absolutely. You don’t get to tell me what to do, or in what timeframe - I don’t work on your dime, and by the way, neither does the OP. I’ve chosen to give the OP the opportunity to comply with the assorted licenses - that takes time. I’ll get to decide if an attempt was made, not you. I don’t expect a hobbyist to jump up and down to the tune of random internet comments - we all have a life. Throwing your weight around generally ends poorly when you’re a lightweight - if you claim the release is non-compliant, tell the OP why and how he can fix that. If you’re only here to disrupt the thread, that kind of input isn’t needed.

To reiterate, which specific part of the zip is non-compliant with what license, why, and what is the remedy, so that the OP can actually make a meaningful and satisfactory update? Because you come across as someone who just wants it removed altogether, rather than “fixed”. I say this because you roll in telling *me* what to do, which is very unwise. It’s early morning and I haven’t had my morning brew yet.

Haven't had your morning brew or did someone piss in it? I merely alerted you to the ongoing license violations and did not expect this kind of overreaction from a moderator. I thought you were supposed to be the level headed one.

The original poster has been well aware that he needs to provide source code all along and nothing is happening. It's a 5 minute job, not a 30 day one.

 

[Foxi4]

My understanding is that with overclocking you normally undervolt. While overclocking increases the amount of current. The faster you switch, the more current is drawn and the more heat is generated.

For all I know, NVIDIA might have sold Nintendo parts that were speed binned even lower than Nintendo are already running them at. It's not unprecedented, Microsoft used cheap rejected memory in the original xbox. At startup the xbox does a memory test at different clock speeds to find one where it works. So each console runs at a different speed.

The github explains the difference between Erista and Mariko.

"Tegra X1 on Erista is on TSMC 20nm HPM node, consumes much more power (~2x) and generates much more heat, compared to Tegra X1+ on Mariko (TSMC 16nm FinFET).

• Snapdragon 810 (4 x A57 @ 2.0GHz + 4 x A53) also uses 20nm HPM, see how it plagued Android phones in 2014."

Over/undervolting and over/underclocking are two separate procedures. The higher the clock, the higher the general power consumption of a given chip as the operating frequency has increased. On a desktop setup your ideal scenario is to achieve system stability on as high a clock and as low a voltage as possible because it minimises thermal load, both on the chip and the VRM. On the Switch there is no feasible way to control the VRM (to my knowledge) - the chip requests as much voltage as is required to run at a given frequency, much like on a desktop with no OC suite built into the motherboard. As such, any increase in frequency will automatically increase the load, and any increase beyond stock parameters may increase load past the point to which the VRM components were rated.

Tl;dr Overclocking requires more power, frequencies that go beyond stock will require more power than originally, we have no way of controlling the VRM so the voltage can’t be reduced.

Haven't had your morning brew or did someone piss in it? I merely alerted you to the ongoing license violations and did not expect this kind of overreaction from a moderator. I thought you were supposed to be the level headed one.

The original poster has been well aware that he needs to provide source code all along and nothing is happening. It's a 5 minute job, not a 30 day one.

Patience is generally advised here. I already specified my issue with you. Your assumption is that because it’s a “5-minute job”, you get to run his schedule, or mine - I’m afraid that you don’t. Your comment didn’t add anything to the conversation, we’re already very much aware of the matter, I don’t need “reminders”. I’ll set aside an amount of time that I find sufficient and appropriate.

For the record, the MIT license does not require the user to post any source code whatsoever. Quite the opposite, actually - it only requires attributions for reused code.

 

[3DSBricker]

This is not fully true. The Switch, like nearly all other chips, has dynamic Voltage. It's not like Intel or AMD that it has a VID and gets what it requests. You manually set a constant Voltage, or dynamic. KazushiMe calculated coefficients so it's dynamic and doesn't use the full Voltage all the time. I don't think you can use the argument of damage here as many tried before and the moderators and admins see this as an "at your own risk" thing. Although the warnings weren't clear and a mod even needed to edit the post. About licensing, the Atmosphère, KazushiMe's, and many others (not sure about sys-clk) are not included. You can modify these things, but only if you include the license AND the source code; of which he did neither. It's also proven that batteries can bulge, burn or even explode if there's too much current drawn from and/or you're just triggering the low battery. On Erista this is a huge problem. Not to mention that it's pointless, as I previously said, GPU overclocking doesn't work above 1305MHz for Mariko and 921MHz for Erista (which is the stock max clock).

 

[3DSBricker]

Patience is generally advised here. I already specified my issue with you. Your assumption is that because it’s a “5-minute job”, you get to run his schedule, or mine - I’m afraid that you don’t. Your comment didn’t add anything to the conversation, we’re already very much aware of the matter, I don’t need “reminders”. I’ll set aside an amount of time that I find sufficient and appropriate.

For the record, the MIT license does not require the user to post any source code whatsoever. Quite the opposite, actually - it only requires attributions for reused code.

KazushiMe doesn't use MIT. It uses GPLv2.
"I'd appreciate if someone is willing to contribute. But if you are releasing somewhere else (with or without your own modifications), be sure you are complying with GPL v2 license and include necessary warnings for users."

 

[Foxi4]

KazushiMe doesn't use MIT. It uses GPLv2.
"I'd appreciate if someone is willing to contribute. But if you are releasing somewhere else (with or without your own modifications), be sure you are complying with GPL v2 license and include necessary warnings for users."

I wasn’t talking about any specific part of the package - I was correcting the apparent misconception that the MIT license requires the user to provide source code like GPL does - it does not. I have no horse in this race, nor any specific interest in the subject matter - I’m moderating the forum thread. If someone is making a complaint, I like to see a suggested resolution alongside it, otherwise all I see is sniping at a personal project, which I won’t abide by.

This is not fully true. The Switch, like nearly all other chips, has dynamic Voltage. It's not like Intel or AMD that it has a VID and gets what it requests. You manually set a constant Voltage, or dynamic. KazushiMe calculated coefficients so it's dynamic and doesn't use the full Voltage all the time. I don't think you can use the argument of damage here as many tried before and the moderators and admins see this as an "at your own risk" thing. Although the warnings weren't clear and a mod even needed to edit the post. About licensing, the Atmosphère, KazushiMe's, and many others (not sure about sys-clk) are not included. You can modify these things, but only if you include the license AND the source code; of which he did neither. It's also proven that batteries can bulge, burn or even explode if there's too much current drawn from and/or you're just triggering the low battery. On Erista this is a huge problem. Not to mention that it's pointless, as I previously said, GPU overclocking doesn't work above 1305MHz for Mariko and 921MHz for Erista (which is the stock max clock).

Of course the voltage is dynamic - it’s load-dependent. The chip generally won’t draw more than it needs at any given moment. We’re talking strictly about peak usage here, but it’s good to narrow things down for everyone.

Other than that I agree - source should be provided for GPL-licensed content. I await a response in that regard, but I’m a patient man. A patient man, but one that won’t be rushed either.

Regarding batteries, this is a big concern as there is little testing done in regards to the C value of the internal battery. All lithium-based cells have peak charge and discharge parameters before they start spontaneously off-gassing. This, along with overdriving the VRM which is not rated for high current, are the two actual concerns in regards to overclocking a device like the Switch, particularly a lower-spec’d model like Erista. To my eye it doesn’t disqualify it from experimentation, but that’s done at the user’s own risk, which is stressed incessantly throughout the thread.

 

[smf]

Over/undervolting and over/underclocking are two separate procedures. The higher the clock, the higher the general power consumption of a given chip as the operating frequency has increased. On a desktop setup your ideal scenario is to achieve system stability on as high a clock and as low a voltage as possible because it minimises thermal load, both on the chip and the VRM. On the Switch there is no feasible way to control the VRM (to my knowledge) - the chip requests as much voltage as is required to run at a given frequency, much like on a desktop with no OC suite built into the motherboard. As such, any increase in frequency will automatically increase the load, and any increase beyond stock parameters may increase load past the point to which the VRM components were rated.

Tl;dr Overclocking requires more power, frequencies that go beyond stock will require more power than originally, we have no way of controlling the VRM so the voltage can’t be reduced.

Amps, overclocking uses more amps, not volts.

You would normally then undervolt if possible, to try to keep the watts down (even if that requires modifying the hardware).

 

[Foxi4]

Amps, overclocking uses more amps, not volts.

Voltage control is a standard element of overclocking suites. Amperage increases with the workload, work (power) being measured in Watts and described as wattage. You can run a chip at a higher voltage (V), which will require less current (A), or vice versa. What you’re trying to say is that an overclocked chip uses more power.

 

[3DSBricker]

Yes you'd need to do a lot before you manage to damage the battery. Perhaps bypassing limits for low battery shutdown? But they're not in here so that's not a concern. A copyright holder already filed a complaint with a demand. I know you're (plural) still discussing it and I have to be patient as well. For now basically everything is stolen and you download it from some site. He says it's downloaded more than the original project (by KazushiMe). How would he know that? KazushiMe doesn't have a download tracker. If the OP has, what else does he have? More trackers? Nonetheless the fact remains he promised multiple times he would comply, and the way he said it implied in the short term. On the other hand, he also said he'd stop if the original devs were against it. ZachyCatGames literally responded with "as the original dev I'm against Erista CPU/GPU" or something similar. In the mean time many users download it while not understanding the risks and don't know the background story. Naturally they're defending the OP. Not saying this is bad, but it's not fair.

 

[3DSBricker]

Voltage control is a standard element of overclocking suites. Amperage increases with the workload, work being measured in Watts and described as wattage. You can run a chip at a higher voltage (V), which will require less current (A), or vice versa.

This is true, but increasing Voltage doesn't necessarily decrease Amps. In fact, more Voltage gives more headroom for current. Too little Voltage results in too much current that has to be drawn. That's when it gets unstable. More Voltage means less current than what previously made it unstable, but it can draw the same amount of current, but this time at a higher Voltage resulting in more power floating through the processor. This results in more heat and heat accelerates degradation, etc.

 

[Foxi4]

Yes you'd need to do a lot before you manage to damage the battery. Perhaps bypassing limits for low battery shutdown? But they're not in here so that's not a concern. A copyright holder already filed a complaint with a demand. I know you're (plural) still discussing it and I have to be patient as well. For now basically everything is stolen and you download it from some site. He says it's downloaded more than the original project (by KazushiMe). How would he know that? KazushiMe doesn't have a download tracker. If the OP has, what else does he have? More trackers? Nonetheless the fact remains he promised multiple times he would comply, and the way he said it implied in the short term. On the other hand, he also said he'd stop if the original devs were against it. ZachyCatGames literally responded with "as the original dev I'm against Erista CPU/GPU" or something similar. In the mean time many users download it while not understanding the risks and don't know the background story. Naturally they're defending the OP. Not saying this is bad, but it's not fair.

Zachary has already stated his objections - he originally created the patches and has a moral objection against using them in a manner that may damage the hardware, but has no claims in regards to licensing, or I haven’t seen any and he can restate them.

 

[3DSBricker]

Zachary has already stated his objections - he originally created the patches and has a moral objection against using them in a manner that may damage the hardware, but has no claims in regards to licensing, or I haven’t seen any and he can restate them.

I wasn't saying that. I just said the OP said he would stop with this if the original developers are against it. ZachyCatGames responded with that he's against it. He doesn't use any kind of license, but the OP hasn't stopped. This isn't forbidden, but does make him a liar.

 

[Foxi4]

This is true, but increasing Voltage doesn't necessarily decrease Amps. In fact, more Voltage gives more headroom for current. Too little Voltage results in too much current that has to be drawn. That's when it gets unstable. More Voltage means less current than what previously made it unstable, but it can draw the same amount of current, but this time at a higher Voltage resulting in more power floating through the processor. This results in more heat and heat accelerates degradation, etc.

There’s a good video about this by Electroboom, if anyone’s interested in the specifics of how electricity works. Voltage is required to overcome resistance, in layman’s terms. Often times you cannot pass more current through a circuit without increasing voltage, and there’s a number of reasons for that. If anyone’s looking for an analogy, electricity behaves similarly to water in a tap. You can only get so much flow (current) without increasing pressure (voltage). What you’re *actually* targeting is a specific volume of water (power). It all goes back to the dreaded “what kills you, voltage or current” debate, and everyone has their own wrong answer to that one. To get to the real answer, you have to take a step back and realise that we’re talking about movement of electrons, but this isn’t exactly a good place for a physics lesson.

I wasn't saying that. I just said the OP said he would stop with this if the original developers are against it. ZachyCatGames responded with that he's against it. He doesn't use any kind of license, but the OP hasn't stopped. This isn't forbidden, but does make him a liar.

We’re not the moral police. This was touched upon earlier in the thread. I believe my wording was “it’s not illegal, but it makes you an ass”.

 

[3DSBricker]

Yes, that's indeed what you said. At least something similar. Current is always what kills, Voltage does increase the risks of degradation. 10A and 0.5V is just 5W and it doesn't necessarily damage anything. 10A and 1V is 10w and, for the Switch, doesn't really mean any degradation (though 10A is way too much). Keep in mind that both CPU and GPU use power. I think we're talking about the same thing, though. Only with a different explanation. Mine probably is not the best one. Increase Voltage and you increase like the range the current can go/damage things.