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Hacking '3x' drive speed.

  • Thread starter Thread starter CMac1988
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mhh maybe when the partition is encrypted, data is stored so that movies content and games scenes/levels or such, are stored in a contiguous way to optimize and reduce loading times and movies streams.

but what happens when you drcrypt the partition?

if contents (i dunno if they are actually files so call them just contents) are fragmented, then loading times increases, and movies start to lag and crash becouse the reading speed decreases dramatically due to DVD seek times.

has any1 tried to check this out?
 
atomikramp said:
mhh maybe when the partition is encrypted, data is stored so that movies content and games scenes/levels or such, are stored in a contiguous way to optimize and reduce loading times and movies streams.

but what happens when you drcrypt the partition?

if contents (i dunno if they are actually files so call them just contents) are fragmented, then loading times increases, and movies start to lag and crash becouse the reading speed decreases dramatically due to DVD seek times.

has any1 tried to check this out?
Click to expand...

Hey thats what i said !

Anyway more importantly enough has anyone tryed a patched back up made with the waninpatcher on a Chipped wii ?
 
i don't have the necessary stuff to make the test right now,
but maybe someone already tried this out.

what happens if you just
1) open the ISO
2) extract all files
3) burn a new ISO containing the files in the main partition (DOL and all other games files)
put the ISO in the wii
4) try to run the main dol from the dvd as a normal application?

since it's now unencrypted, isn't it just like you have to run a normal .dol application on the wii? only it's from DVD instead of SD card.
 
It's obvious by now that the problem is either the patching or the loader itself.

Does anyone know what the patcher does exactly?

Also, patched backups won't boot on chipped wiis.
 
atomikramp said:
i don't have the necessary stuff to make the test right now,
but maybe someone already tried this out.

what happens if you just
1) open the ISO
2) extract all files
Click to expand...
 
The "patcher" doesn't actually do anything, it just decrypts and rearranges a few parts of the ISO. The actual patching is done by the backup-loader, which replaces all the dvd reads with the dvd-video reads used by the wii to read dvd-r. The drive itself limits those calls to 3x read speed. The only way to overcome this would be to change the drive firmware. The only practicle way to speed up backups would be USB 2.0 Stop blaming the people making the software. If you really want to manually extract the information from a wii disc, I recomend wii-scrubber. Winrar and stuff cant open these isos because they are encrypted (that is why you need the common-key to use wii-scrubber and trucha-signer).
 
But someone already said that they forced their DVD drive to play an original game at 3x using their modchip and it didn't have any of the speed issues that the backup-loader has so how can we say for sure that it's the 3x limitation?
 
I'm not saying that the problems can't necessarily be fixed, I'm just saying the 3x limitation can't be overcome. We are using wii functions in a way they were never intended to be used, of course there are going to be problems. Give it time, and I'm sure a lot of the issues will be overcome. If I had to guess where the slowdowns are at this point, it would be in the communication between the backup loader and dvdx. From what I can tell, the backup loader shouldn't really need to rely on dvdx if cios and the backup loader are written properly, and waninkoko originally planned to have his work that way. Eventually these problems might be overcome, but even then games wont play as well as they would with a chip (or with the real game). Like I said, the only way to perfectly emulate games without modding the wii is USB 2.0
 
Regarding what others have been saying, I can tell you that the 3x speed cap shouldn't be causing all these slowdowns, at least not to the extent we've been seeing. It's simple math really.... 6x is twice as fast as 3x so if the drive speed were to effect loading times it would make things, at most, twice as slow to load. We are seeing much larger load times than that, sometimes being as much as 5 times slower.

Not having dvdx functionality internalized into the app isn't helping, especially considering mplayer can't even play a frikkin dvd right and it's SUPPOSED to run at 3x. I think the loader itself might be at fault as well. Judging by the settings in the newer one, it appears that the loader hooks the calls being sent to the wii, parses them, and then re-directs them accordingly. This is all being done on-the-fly btw afaict. I dunno about the wii, but if you hook all the calls on a pc and parse them it slows things down considerably. As a matter of fact, the concept of console emulation is to take calls made by the program and re-direct them, and you know how resource intensive/slow that can be.
 
Supercool330 said:
The "patcher" doesn't actually do anything, it just decrypts and rearranges a few parts of the ISO. The actual patching is done by the backup-loader, which replaces all the dvd reads with the dvd-video reads used by the wii to read dvd-r. The drive itself limits those calls to 3x read speed. The only way to overcome this would be to change the drive firmware. The only practicle way to speed up backups would be USB 2.0 Stop blaming the people making the software. If you really want to manually extract the information from a wii disc, I recomend wii-scrubber. Winrar and stuff cant open these isos because they are encrypted (that is why you need the common-key to use wii-scrubber and trucha-signer).
Click to expand...


Where can i download wii-scrubber ??
 
It would appear that at some point, Nintendo had considered including DVD playback on Wii. But then later decided against such features. They ended up not completely removing all of the code, so there remained enough for hackers to discover and utilize.

Only the proprietary Wii file system (which doesn't adhere to DVD standards) is officially supported by Nintendo on current models.
 
slimpyman said:
dvdx is sloppy code.
DVDX isn't even any relevant code. It's just a stub that turns on DVD mod and it can't do it any better because it does basically nothing. Its only purpose is to enable DVD mode on an unmodded IOS. Once libdi is initialized DVDX is gone and all it did was... nothing. DVDX is just a workaround for the fact that you need to launch a channel to get into DVD mode, whether you like it or not. libdi is open source. And waninkoko's loader doesn't actually use either of them once the game is loaded, as the IOS module does the job of talking with the drive. Triple fail, buddy.

QUOTE(Saladman @ Oct 2 2008, 05:57 PM) You also told us once that waninkoko was incapable of producing a backuploader at all.
Click to expand...
Waninkoko is incapable of producing a backuploader on his own. Most of "his" backup loader consists of neimod's IOS toolkit, libdi, old Gamecube DI handling code, and bog standard disc loading code.

3x isn't a limitation of DVDX. It's a limitation of the drive's DVD mode. I don't know what idiot decided that we limited the Wii's DVD reading speed. It's a hardware/firmware thing. The debug commands are also capped in hardware (in the drive, not the Hollywood. They stop at the drive's LL controller. There's no magic enable bit). You aren't going to be patching it the way they did in the GameCube. Period.

The copy loader's speed problems are both due to the 3x limit and because Wanin's IOS code sucks. Bigtime. It's horribly inefficient.

The Wii has USB 2.0 ports, and unless you go ahead and write a full IOS driver for them, you're not going to be using them any time soon. Nintendo didn't limit USB to 1.1 speeds, they just didn't ship a driver that they don't actually need right now. They require an entirely new driver. The WiiLinux guys might get them to work using Linux's driver, but that's useless for all of you little pirate guys, since it won't work for games.

The Ethernet adapter is limited to 10mbit due to the port speed. It actually has support for the (unreleased) 2.0 driver, and then falls back to the regular one since it doesn't exist.

As much as we hate the backup loader and as much as you guys would like to use that as an excuse for its shortcomings, sorry, no, the backup loader's limitations are all either due to Waninkoko's incompetence or due to hardware limitations. Also, Waninkoko ceased to develop it because you idiots didn't even bother to respect his software (how could you? it's not like you respect Nintendo's), not because we somehow "won". You screwed yourselves over here. Hell, I'll even side with Waninkoko on this one: you guys are assholes, not only because someone released the beta version of the app, but because everyone started using it, treating it like a final version, writing tutorials and documentation, all with zero respect for the author. And to top it off, you bitch about its limitations.

By the way, we aren't going to be trying to stop any proper homebrew, whether it loads backups or not. However, if someone steals our code or violates its license, then yes, we're going to try to stop them. And unlike Nintendo, it doesn't take us three months to release updated versions of our stuff. I'm just throwing that out there in case someone has thoughts about violating our licenses to do anything, especially if it has to do with loading copies.
 
marcan said:
slimpyman said:
dvdx is sloppy code.
DVDX isn't even any relevant code. It's just a stub that turns on DVD mod and it can't do it any better because it does basically nothing. Its only purpose is to enable DVD mode on an unmodded IOS. Once libdi is initialized DVDX is gone and all it did was... nothing. DVDX is just a workaround for the fact that you need to launch a channel to get into DVD mode, whether you like it or not. libdi is open source. And waninkoko's loader doesn't actually use either of them once the game is loaded, as the IOS module does the job of talking with the drive. Triple fail, buddy.

QUOTE(Saladman @ Oct 2 2008, 05:57 PM) You also told us once that waninkoko was incapable of producing a backuploader at all.
Click to expand...
Waninkoko is incapable of producing a backuploader on his own. Most of "his" backup loader consists of neimod's IOS toolkit, libdi, old Gamecube DI handling code, and bog standard disc loading code.

3x isn't a limitation of DVDX. It's a limitation of the drive's DVD mode. I don't know what idiot decided that we limited the Wii's DVD reading speed. It's a hardware/firmware thing. The debug commands are also capped in hardware (in the drive, not the Hollywood. They stop at the drive's LL controller. There's no magic enable bit). You aren't going to be patching it the way they did in the GameCube. Period.

The copy loader's speed problems are both due to the 3x limit and because Wanin's IOS code sucks. Bigtime. It's horribly inefficient.

The Wii has USB 2.0 ports, and unless you go ahead and write a full IOS driver for them, you're not going to be using them any time soon. Nintendo didn't limit USB to 1.1 speeds, they just didn't ship a driver that they don't actually need right now. They require an entirely new driver. The WiiLinux guys might get them to work using Linux's driver, but that's useless for all of you little pirate guys, since it won't work for games.

The Ethernet adapter is limited to 10mbit due to the port speed. It actually has support for the (unreleased) 2.0 driver, and then falls back to the regular one since it doesn't exist.

As much as we hate the backup loader and as much as you guys would like to use that as an excuse for its shortcomings, sorry, no, the backup loader's limitations are all either due to Waninkoko's incompetence or due to hardware limitations. Also, Waninkoko ceased to develop it because you idiots didn't even bother to respect his software (how could you? it's not like you respect Nintendo's), not because we somehow "won". You screwed yourselves over here. Hell, I'll even side with Waninkoko on this one: you guys are assholes, not only because someone released the beta version of the app, but because everyone started using it, treating it like a final version, writing tutorials and documentation, all with zero respect for the author. And to top it off, you bitch about its limitations.

By the way, we aren't going to be trying to stop any proper homebrew, whether it loads backups or not. However, if someone steals our code or violates its license, then yes, we're going to try to stop them. And unlike Nintendo, it doesn't take us three months to release updated versions of our stuff. I'm just throwing that out there in case someone has thoughts about violating our licenses to do anything, especially if it has to do with loading copies.
Click to expand...


Thanks for clearing that up.
 
marcan said:
slimpyman said:
dvdx is sloppy code.
DVDX isn't even any relevant code. It's just a stub that turns on DVD mod and it can't do it any better because it does basically nothing. Its only purpose is to enable DVD mode on an unmodded IOS. Once libdi is initialized DVDX is gone and all it did was... nothing. DVDX is just a workaround for the fact that you need to launch a channel to get into DVD mode, whether you like it or not. libdi is open source. And waninkoko's loader doesn't actually use either of them once the game is loaded, as the IOS module does the job of talking with the drive. Triple fail, buddy.

QUOTE(Saladman @ Oct 2 2008, 05:57 PM) You also told us once that waninkoko was incapable of producing a backuploader at all.
Click to expand...
Waninkoko is incapable of producing a backuploader on his own. Most of "his" backup loader consists of neimod's IOS toolkit, libdi, old Gamecube DI handling code, and bog standard disc loading code.

3x isn't a limitation of DVDX. It's a limitation of the drive's DVD mode. I don't know what idiot decided that we limited the Wii's DVD reading speed. It's a hardware/firmware thing. The debug commands are also capped in hardware (in the drive, not the Hollywood. They stop at the drive's LL controller. There's no magic enable bit). You aren't going to be patching it the way they did in the GameCube. Period.

The copy loader's speed problems are both due to the 3x limit and because Wanin's IOS code sucks. Bigtime. It's horribly inefficient.

The Wii has USB 2.0 ports, and unless you go ahead and write a full IOS driver for them, you're not going to be using them any time soon. Nintendo didn't limit USB to 1.1 speeds, they just didn't ship a driver that they don't actually need right now. They require an entirely new driver. The WiiLinux guys might get them to work using Linux's driver, but that's useless for all of you little pirate guys, since it won't work for games.

The Ethernet adapter is limited to 10mbit due to the port speed. It actually has support for the (unreleased) 2.0 driver, and then falls back to the regular one since it doesn't exist.

As much as we hate the backup loader and as much as you guys would like to use that as an excuse for its shortcomings, sorry, no, the backup loader's limitations are all either due to Waninkoko's incompetence or due to hardware limitations. Also, Waninkoko ceased to develop it because you idiots didn't even bother to respect his software (how could you? it's not like you respect Nintendo's), not because we somehow "won". You screwed yourselves over here. Hell, I'll even side with Waninkoko on this one: you guys are assholes, not only because someone released the beta version of the app, but because everyone started using it, treating it like a final version, writing tutorials and documentation, all with zero respect for the author. And to top it off, you bitch about its limitations.

By the way, we aren't going to be trying to stop any proper homebrew, whether it loads backups or not. However, if someone steals our code or violates its license, then yes, we're going to try to stop them. And unlike Nintendo, it doesn't take us three months to release updated versions of our stuff. I'm just throwing that out there in case someone has thoughts about violating our licenses to do anything, especially if it has to do with loading copies.
Click to expand...


Whatever Marcan one idiot may have released wan's loader and he has every right to be mad and such......
BUT You said he could not make the loader but yet he did...... and it's buggy as hell but it's probaly gettin more
attention than any of your hacks that allow hombrew apps and is worldwidely known to this day and forever whether he finishes it and keeps it to his self so I heard on another site.... HUH WANNA TALK ABOUT PIRACY HUH.....
These emu's and such run through your apps and hacks to allow pirated vc games snes,nes,gba,n64 that honest
people pay for from nintendo you have no right to accuse anyone a pirated nintendo console rom on an emu is
just as bad what is the argument about all we did was ask questions about speeds and progress and here you come you ain't cleared nothin up you stirred it up

One Last thing savemii dongle hmm what's it for fixing and or recovering bricked consoles right how do they become bricked
hmm unauthorized software from which you and others created jesus give it a rest marcan you are no better

All these game systems are made by man and can be undone by man if they are smart enough so let people have fun
and hack like you and bushing did....................
 

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