3DS Third Party Direct Roundup

[Guild McCommunist]

Jeez, you make it sound like it's that easy to just completely rewrite an entire game. That adhoc play thingy is mostly a compromise -- players get online, albeit with conditions tied to it. Rather expensive conditions, too. They're actually giving in to fanbase clamor about online (but being Capcom, they get to screw em at the same time, too!).

But still, I don't really expect any dev to just magically add a full online feature onto a finished game. I do have misgivings about the additional LAN adapter though. I mean, Wii U? Okay, Adhoc Play does it too. Makes sense. But another accessory on top of that? Gets kinda fishy.

It's called coding the game before it received a Japanese release. It certainly wouldn't hurt the game.

I just think it's really stupid for consumers to make up for their laziness on a game by buying an accessory.

 

[ferofax]

It's called coding the game before it received a Japanese release. It certainly wouldn't hurt the game.

I just think it's really stupid for consumers to make up for their laziness on a game by buying an accessory.

Oh, I get that part, that they could have done that. But they didn't really plan on adding online to the game, that's why they had to do a workaround later on. It's not laziness, really, more like a decision from up top. Because if they had decided to add online for it, they would have added online to it from the get-go. Like MH4.

Then again, maybe they needed the time to get the hang of online play without sacrificing much. Who knows? All I know is that with MH4, they're confident that they can keep the level of quality MH3U has and add tons more of things to that, including online.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Oh, I get that part, that they could have done that. But they didn't really plan on adding online to the game, that's why they had to do a workaround later on. It's not laziness, really, more like a decision from up top. Because if they had decided to add online for it, they would have added online to it from the get-go. Like MH4.

Then again, maybe they needed the time to get the hang of online play without sacrificing much. Who knows? All I know is that with MH4, they're confident that they can keep the level of quality MH3U has and add tons more of things to that, including online.

Well it is kinda laziness if they said "We don't NEED online..." then realized they wanted to add it. They should be more proactive. It's not like it'd subtract from the game at all, you can still do local if you want, but online would just be another option.

I really don't see "They needed time to get the hang of online play" as an excuse considering online play has been a major function in games for almost the past decade.

Also Monster Hunter 3 had online play. Is it really that hard?

 

[Foxi4]

...am I the only one who thinks that the need for using a WiiU LAN adapter for Online in Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate on the 3DS is ridiculous?

From a Network perspective this means that the WiiU will use the Ethernet port to connect with the Nintendo Network and the WiFi module will serve the role of a server, connecting directly with the 3DS. If that is indeed the case then "LOL, Nintendo... you crazy" - the 3DS should be entirely capable of connecting on its own without the need for owning a WiiU, let alone a silly LAN adapter which was reported to slow down Online functionality rather than speed it up like it should.

...or have they backed out of that borderline stupid idea?

This reminds me of PS3's AdHoc party, except the PSP had no Online infrastructure to speak of, at least when it was first released - each game sort of did its own thing till PSN was standardized - it was meant to connect consoles that weren't originally meant to connect. The 3DS is a part of an Online infrastructure so this is needlessly complicating things.

 

[FAST6191]

On the face of it I would agree it is a suspect action Foxi4 but when we were looking at the DS for with the intention of tunneling it seemed it skipped several parts of the usual headers, frames and whatnot out when doing nifi. Equally though I would be shocked to hear the devkit is anything other than "use this library- it does it all" it does also cut out all the hassle of setting up IP addresses and whatnot.

So yeah incompetence/laziness on the parts of many but one with a potential grounding in reality ( http://gbatemp.net/threads/will-there-ever-be-a-way-to-do-local-multi-through-the-internet.342532/ http://gbatemp.net/threads/xlink-kai.334836/#post-4398938 ).

 

[ForteGospel]

If it's not "coded for online", then Capcom should fucking code it for online. It's them being either lazy and not wanting to code something into a game or them being greedy and wanting people to spend extra for a useless adapter they'll probably only use for a few games.

It's them being lazy... ultimate is just a localization of the Japanese version, which it already didn't had online, so instead of creating a new version and a patch for the Japanese they just coded the online part to the wiiu game...

 

[Foxi4]

On the face of it I would agree it is a suspect action Foxi4 but when we were looking at the DS for with the intention of tunneling it seemed it skipped several parts of the usual headers, frames and whatnot out when doing nifi. Equally though I would be shocked to hear the devkit is anything other than "use this library- it does it all" it does also cut out all the hassle of setting up IP addresses and whatnot.

So yeah incompetence/laziness on the parts of many but one with a potential grounding in reality ( http://gbatemp.net/threads/will-there-ever-be-a-way-to-do-local-multi-through-the-internet.342532/ http://gbatemp.net/threads/xlink-kai.334836/#post-4398938 ).

Never the less, to play Monster Hunter to its fullest on the 3DS you are required to purchase a Next Generation console plus a LAN adapter for it even though you really shouldn't have to.

The console shouldn't "tunnel" the connection through another console at all - the connection to Nintendo Network on the 3DS is direct and native, it's just lazyness on Capcom's part that Nintendo's correcting with an auxiliary solution since Monster Hunter Ultimate is a huge system seller in Japan.

 

[Arras]

I'm unsure why the online suddenly works through a WiiU, but I do know that generally adding online to a game can take months or more of extra development time because suddenly there's all sorts of potential problems to consider (most importantly ping). The LAN adapter is probably because the Wifi board in the WiiU can only connect to one thing, either internet or a bunch of 3DSes, but not both at once. I'm guessing the same problem will pop up with Smash Bros 3DS > WiiU connectivity. You need the LAN adapter to basically add a second connection, like the PS3's Adhoc. Like I said though, I have no idea how they can get it working through a WiiU when it doesn't work (yet?) on just a 3DS. Maybe they opted to do the extra online handling stuff in a WiiU downloadable app so the 3DS can just pretend it's playing Ad-Hoc instead of releasing a patch for that, but I don't know why.

 

[Foxi4]

I'm unsure why the online suddenly works through a WiiU, but I do know that generally adding online to a game can take months or more of extra development time because suddenly there's all sorts of potential problems to consider (most importantly ping). The LAN adapter is probably because the Wifi board in the WiiU can only be in one mode, either Nifi (to connect to the 3DS) or Wifi (To connect to the internet), but not both at once. You need the LAN adapter to basically add a second connection, like the PS3's Adhoc. Like I said though, I have no idea how they can get it working through a WiiU when it doesn't work (yet?) on just a 3DS. Maybe they opted to do the extra online handling stuff in a WiiU downloadable app so the 3DS can just pretend it's playing Ad-Hoc instead of releasing a patch for that, but I don't know why.

That's exactly how it works, however it's still an essential feature - a large portion of the original content was only obtainable via Online so it's natural to expect it from the 3DS version.

 

[Arras]

That's exactly how it works, however it's still an essential feature - a large portion of the original content was only obtainable via Online so it's natural to expect it from the 3DS version.

Ya, and like I said, if they can create a WiiU app that deals with all the latency problems and stuff, I don't see why they can't put that in a patch for the 3DS version. It deals with the same problems.

 

[ferofax]

It's them being lazy... ultimate is just a localization of the Japanese version, which it already didn't had online, so instead of creating a new version and a patch for the Japanese they just coded the online part to the wiiu game...

What.

Create a new version...? Instead of localizing it, you want them to create a new version? Either you don't know how things work, in which case, I'd like to inform you that they don't work that way, or you're being very... um, entitled. I don't think it's meant to be used like that, but it gets the point across.

Ya, and like I said, if they can create a WiiU app that deals with all the latency problems and stuff, I don't see why they can't put that in a patch for the 3DS version. It deals with the same problems.

We're all getting ahead of ourselves here. Let's not forget, the 3DS is awesome but it's not a powerhouse. It's probably nearing max just trying to keep the game running smoothly (probably uses that previously locked processing power too, the one that was dedicated to wifi). We could actually be looking at genuine system limitations here. If online was natively coded (i.e., not added as an afterthought), then it's alright.

EDIT: I'm starting to sound like a Capcom bannerman, am I? LOL. Anyways, not trying to protect Capcom or Nintendo here, just... trying to actually think about things that could happen.

 

[ForteGospel]

What.

Create a new version...? Instead of localizing it, you want them to create a new version? Either you don't know how things work, in which case, I'd like to inform you that they don't work that way, or you're being very... um, entitled. I don't think it's meant to be used like that, but it gets the point across.

When did I say I wanted a new version? I said that instead of making a new version they are just integrating the online feature to the wiiu.

 

[narutofan777]

is this the best 3ds has??

 

[Guild McCommunist]

is this the best 3ds has??

Nah just what third parties have currently in Japan.

 

[ferofax]

When did I say I wanted a new version? I said that instead of making a new version they are just integrating the online feature to the wiiu.

MFW. :facedesk:

Come on, seriously? I'm just bolding out the parts you said. I'm just quoting you. Can't you even be bothered to read what you posted? Are you seriously denying what you said? Or was it that you meant to say something, but said something else, and it's that something else that I quoted?

 

[ForteGospel]

MFW. :facedesk:

Come on, seriously? I'm just bolding out the parts you said. I'm just quoting you. Can't you even be bothered to read what you posted? Are you seriously denying what you said? Or was it that you meant to say something, but said something else, and it's that something else that I quoted?

thanks for bolding out the part about "creating a new version", yet I find it hard to find the part that said I wanted them to create one...

My post was a statement about capcom being lazy and releasing the game without online and integrating a connection through the wiiu instead of releasing a patch...

what I want is irrelevant so I didn't even post it...

also now that I think about it, the online feature does makes sense to work through the wiiu because if they made it work for both the 3ds and the wiiu they would need to use different infrastructure for each console... the service is free anyway, if there was a payment for the service it wouldn't make sense but this is not the case

 

[ferofax]

Oh, alright. You may not have said you wanted it, but you were pretty much saying it.

On another point, I do believe the infrastructure is the same for both, else crossplay would be very, very difficult to implement. So that means Nintendo Network will work the same for both the Wii U and the 3DS, especially the online parts, the only difference is that the Wii U can do more on it than the 3DS can. But on the features that they can do both, they do it in the same way.

Really, they're just making it pass through the Wii U because the Wii U version can connect to an online server that's made for the Wii U but the 3DS can't*, so the 3DS connects to the Wii U and piggy-backs to the server, where they meet other Wii Us and other 3DSes piggy-backing on Wii Us.

*this is the part where the 3DS isn't coded for an online server or somesuch, and the Wii U is. So the Wii U has a passport, the 3DS doesn't. Which makes me think... how about a DLC passport? Hmm, but I don't know if that would work well, because I suspect the 3DS has its hands full. Really full.