Has Cancel Culture Gone Too Far

SG854 · Jun 28, 2020

osaka35 said:
As a rule of thumb, if you're an ahole, then you're going to get called out for it. Jenna Marbles got heat as a direct result of her actions, and stepped down to avoid changing or engaging. So...what do you believe was the correct course of action for her to take?

Also, you will see a lot of token actions, so real change doesn't have to happen. Like that realty company saying they'll stop referring to it as a "master bedroom", despite it having no connection to slavery. They do that so they don't have to actually do anything of merit, like addressing the industry problem of showing people of colour lower quality houses.

I don't think it's gone too far, it's more of people not escaping the consequences of their actions, but I do think it's used as a cover. Something silly is brought up as an example so people can be outraged by the silly, and the actual horrible stuff which should be the focus is given cover.

I dont think you know much about Jenna Marbles if you think she is an A*hole.

So she stepped down to avoid changing and engaging? Usually with the premise that she's done bad. I think people with this mindset is toxic. People like to redefine definitions, and redefine the situation, and become batshit crazy over little inconsequential things.

I think the course of action she should've taken was that her comedy was meant to make people have a good time, so to stand her ground. But I understand she doesn't want to deal with the craziness that's happening right now so I understand why she would step down, especially if they are a sensitive person. Being accused of racist things when you yourself have been nothing but nice is exhausting and not good for your mental sake.

Her doing a skit of Niki Minaj was not black face. It was just her doing a comedy skit and used a tan to look like her while doing the skit. People don't see the nuance in the situation that this is different from black face. People that do black face do it with the intention of hurting for racist reasons. Jenna Marbles was not doing that. People that think otherwise are batshit crazy and need to reevaluate their lives. They are horrible fuckin people that are power hungry and abuse their power to take down others because they can. They are scaring people off the platform because they are sick in the head.

Kraken_X · Jun 28, 2020

In an ideal world, there would be laws against doing bad things. If you are accused of doing a bad thing, you go to a fair court and a verdict is reached based on due process and evidence. In America, the only two courts that affect the ultra-rich are public opinion and corporate profit.

"Cancel culture" is an appeal to the public opinion and corporate profit courts. It's a last resort for justice in a country where there is no justice. Initially it was effective too, with millionaires who otherwise would get away with anything being called out by #metoo. But then the rich saw that they could harness this outrage and destroy movements by misdirecting it all while shielding themselves from it. Remember when the director of Guardians of the Galaxy got fired for telling a raunchy joke a decade prior, when he is a comedian and that's what they do? I would not be surprised if some of the same people behind that are driving this new outrage. It's effective at "making the left eat themselves alive" too, because only people on the left care about this stuff. After all, conservatives are fine with a president that paid hush money to a prostitute that he cheated on his wife with.

The misdirection worked. Are we talking about the actual issues that BLM cares about right now? No, we are talking about something innocent that fake people are fake outraged about instead. Instead of addressing the real problems in our society, our favorite shows are just going to be slightly worse.

notimp · Jun 28, 2020

The issue why this culture is still 'a thing' is that it claims to be PC and gives the ones imposing it huge power over others. Actual power.

Professors or student assistants these days usually only get hired for short stints, and then have to hope that their research contracts are renewed, which is a problem in itself, but if they are confronted with a culture that will campaigns against someone claiming them to not be PC enough, they will go silent.

And people imposing it actually exercise power over others, so leadership and power structures form, and because they claim to be PC, they are deemed by many to be 'socially just' at first glance, and can get quite far in terms of organizing structures.

And people who just shut up, also get further in their their bow wave.

So it is self propelling.
--

Its wrong to mix it up with meetoo though, imho - even if meetoo uses cancel culture strategies of public shaming and outrage, their cause (if true) would actually be proper (at least historically, public shaming 'predators' always kind of was a thing).

Current cancel culture goes further, and imposes new societal defaults that were not universally agreed on.

(Molester always bad - is.)
--

meetoo has a different issue and that is that it can lead to mob mentality and prejudice behavior. But there is still a balance to be struck.

Cancel culture is just plain wrong, except for edge cases of one in a million, where society in general, and not just activists decides on something actually having to become a taboo,

Viri · Jun 28, 2020

Kraken_X said:
our favorite shows are just going to be slightly worse.

And it's a desperate attempt at getting better ratings. Hardly anyone gave a fuck about the Simpson's, Apu, and the other voice actors until all this happened. They're changing the actors, because they know people will tune in to see what the new voice actors are like. It's also getting people to talk about the Simpsons and Family Guy.

notimp · Jun 28, 2020

Kraken_X said:
you go to a fair court and a verdict is reached based on due process and evidence.

This doesnt work.

Evidence can be biased or misinterpreted, due process can fail. And in the end the wrong person gets send to prison again.

You cant get arround this. Not even on the process logic level.

Thats why law and not truth or justice is spoken. There is a specific distinction that we make on purpose, to not have to answer the question if what we ended up with was the truth.

That distinction is not by chance, and it is important.

osaka35 · Jun 28, 2020

SG854 said:
I dont think you know much about Jenna Marbles if you think she is an A*hole.

So she stepped down to avoid changing and engaging? Usually with the premise that she's done bad. I think people with this mindset is toxic. People like to redefine definitions, and redefine the situation, and become batshit crazy over little inconsequential things.

I think the course of action she should've taken was that her comedy was meant to make people have a good time, so to stand her ground. But I understand she doesn't want to deal with the craziness that's happening right now so I understand why she would step down, especially if they are a sensitive person. Being accused of racist things when you yourself have been nothing but nice is exhausting and not good for your mental sake.

Her doing a skit of Niki Minaj was not black face. It was just her doing a comedy skit and used a tan to look like her while doing the skit. People don't see the nuance in the situation that this is different from black face. People that do black face do it with the intention of hurting for racist reasons. Jenna Marbles was not doing that. People that think otherwise are batshit crazy and need to reevaluate their lives. They are horrible fuckin people that are power hungry and abuse their power to take down others because they can. They are scaring people off the platform because they are sick in the head.

I've heard her name pop up more than once. is that only thing she's gotten heat over?

You can be an unintentional ahole. Being an ahole doesn't require intent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. it's probably better to not say she "is an ahole", but rather "did an ahole thing". I don't care one way or the other, I vaguely recall the name being someone youtube famous, but that's about it. Point was when you do an ahole thing, intentional or not, you can either try and do better and make it up to the folks you hurt, or you can bow out and just avoid the heat.

It can be difficult to move past an old mistake, especially in this day and age where everything is recorded and stored forever. I really feel people should be given a chance to show they've grown past their mistakes and can do better. And I understand the anger over folks not being given the chance to redeem themselves, but at the same time, folks don't realize just how severe of an action it was because they have no 1st hand experience. It's understanding the severity of what was done that should be the first step towards becoming someone better.

SG854 · Jun 28, 2020

Kraken_X said:
In an ideal world, there would be laws against doing bad things. If you are accused of doing a bad thing, you go to a fair court and a verdict is reached based on due process and evidence. In America, the only two courts that affect the ultra-rich are public opinion and corporate profit.

"Cancel culture" is an appeal to the public opinion and corporate profit courts. It's a last resort for justice in a country where there is no justice. Initially it was effective too, with millionaires who otherwise would get away with anything being called out by #metoo. But then the rich saw that they could harness this outrage and destroy movements by misdirecting it all while shielding themselves from it. Remember when the director of Guardians of the Galaxy got fired for telling a raunchy joke a decade prior, when he is a comedian and that's what they do? I would not be surprised if some of the same people behind that are driving this new outrage. It's effective at "making the left eat themselves alive" too, because only people on the left care about this stuff. After all, conservatives are fine with a president that paid hush money to a prostitute that he cheated on his wife with.

The misdirection worked. Are we talking about the actual issues that BLM cares about right now? No, we are talking about something innocent that fake people are fake outraged about instead. Instead of addressing the real problems in our society, our favorite shows are just going to be slightly worse.

People have been talking about actual issue for a long time. Why do you think there was a police brutality protest. The problem why things don't change is because people disagree with each other. With stuff like police brutality statistics. One group says cops are not targeting blacks while another group says they do.

I dont know anything about this redirecting the conversation conspiracy theory.

The people out to cancel other people act like they've never done bad in there lives. They are unhappy people that take out their anger against the world. Just like an incel that can't get a girl so he shoots people. People that are part of cancel culture over small ridiculous things are unhappy people that are trying to ruin the lives of others just to make themselves feel better.

Viri said:
And it's a desperate attempt at getting better ratings. Hardly anyone gave a fuck about the Simpson's, Apu, and the other voice actors until all this happened. They're changing the actors, because they know people will tune in to see what the new voice actors are like. It's also getting people to talk about the Simpsons and Family Guy.

It's a pr stunt, one that wouldn't have existed if cancel culture wasn't there to begin with. It just shows how much bad cancel culture has gotten that they can make a pr stunt like this.

notimp · Jun 28, 2020

osaka35 said:
You can be an unintentional ahole. Being an ahole doesn't require intent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and

Therein lies another HUGE issue.

Cancel culture basically eats its children.

Their environments are so toxic, and so high stress, that they constantly monitor each other and even something like a bad joke can push you from a leadership position to persona non grata.

The resulting personality structures are basically people in a costant expectation to be monitored, living in constant fear of saying the wrong thing (chilling effect), and eventually PTSD. Its not fun living that life, but again, currently the issue is, that those organizations rise to power quite quickly, due to people not knowing how to deal with them properly.

And if you gain power quickly - even in university life, you must have done something right, right? Again. Self perpetuating structure.

SG854 · Jun 28, 2020

osaka35 said:
I've heard her name pop up more than once. is that only thing she's gotten heat over?

You can be an unintentional ahole. Being an ahole doesn't require intent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. it's probably better to not say she "is an ahole", but rather "did an ahole thing". I don't care one way or the other, I vaguely recall the name being someone youtube famous, but that's about it. Point was when you do an ahole thing, intentional or not, you can either try and do better and make it up to the folks you hurt, or you can bow out and just avoid the heat.

It can be difficult to move past an old mistake, especially in this day and age where everything is recorded and stored forever. I really feel people should be given a chance to show they've grown past their mistakes and can do better. And I understand the anger over folks not being given the chance to redeem themselves, but at the same time, folks don't realize just how severe of an action it was because they have no 1st hand experience. It's understanding the severity of what was done that should be the first step towards becoming someone better.

There is other things which she addresses in the video.

People that are part of cancel culture don't want to give second chances. They don't want people to grow. They just want to ruin people they don't like because they are unhappy people themselves living unsatisfying lives.

notimp · Jun 28, 2020

And one more 'but also' SJWism and cancel culture are favourite topics of the alt right, because they have correctly identified, that most folks find it atrocious. At which point all thats left to do is to say "this is what liberalism looks like", and have a neat recruitment argument.

Of course its an oversimplification (lie), but its effective as well.

And thats not me making this up, Bannon is on record saying just about that. (Dont have the actual quote at hand, currently.)

Viri · Jun 28, 2020

SG854 said:
It's a pr stunt, one that wouldn't have existed if cancel culture wasn't there to begin with. It just shows how much bad cancel culture has gotten that they can make a pr stunt like this.

Pretty much all companies are taking advantage of this for PR. Look at Nike, they put that kneeling Football player on their ads. In reality, he was a shit player in the NFL. During his last season in the 49ers, his team was 2-16. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why he started kneeling in the first place. He knew he was going to get cut, so needed to do something to get attention, and it worked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_San_Francisco_49ers_season
The funny thing is, he was about to get signed by another team, but then his dumb ass GF posted a Tweet comparing the team's coach and one of their black players as a slave master and a slave. Surprise, surprise, they decided not to sign him, lol.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...sign-colin-kaepernick-girlfriend-racist-tweet

Nike is well known for using slave labor to make their shitty shoes. What better way to make people forget about that then to put Colin on our ads! Just don't pay attention to the Chinese Muslims making our shoes!

notimp · Jun 28, 2020

Viri said:
Pretty much all companies are taking advantage of this for PR. Look at Nike, they put that kneeling Football player on their ads.

Gross mixing up of concepts this is not cancel culture.

You are being racist and looking for an excuse. (Maybe.

)

Reason why companies pick "it"up is "value attribution" explaination to follow shortly.

Also corporations would never charge their brands negatively (for them: any value statement that tells you 'something' is wrong), so they stay the heck away from cancel culture.

edit:

Value attribution basically is, you buying a product, because you think mostly people with character trait X buy that product, which makes you be seen as having character trait X, when having that product, which is why - when buying the product you feel you now have character trait X.

Also important, you actually believe that this makes you more X. Its basically the matrix 'I now know Kung Fu' brain implant, but as a real world principal.

This is the main, and almost sole reason, why companies emotionally charge brands.

Thats a main staple of advertising for years, thats NOT companies deciding to be 'especially untruthfull all of a sudden' because of this or that. Companies are not people. None of their decisions are based on moral values. Literally none.

SG854 · Jun 28, 2020

Viri said:
Pretty much all companies are taking advantage of this for PR. Look at Nike, they put that kneeling Football player on their ads. In reality, he was a shit player in the NFL. During his last season in the 49ers, his team was 2-16. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why he started kneeling in the first place. He knew he was going to get cut, so needed to do something to get attention, and it worked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_San_Francisco_49ers_season
Nike is well known for using slave labor to make their shitty shoes. What better way to make people forget about that then to put Colin on our ads! Just don't pay attention to the Chinese Muslims making our shoes!

Just like Disney saying they are for BLM and support fighting for Black people. But when it comes to their bottom line and money making they will be more then happy to shrink a picture of Finn a black guy for the Starwars poster to make it more appealing to the Chinese audience so that they can make more money. It's all a PR hypocritical stunt.

SG854 · Jun 29, 2020

Unilever a major corporation halts ads for the rest of 2020 because of the toxic environment. This is how bad its gotten.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ebook-instagram-and-twitter-for-rest-of-2020/

gamesquest1 · Jun 29, 2020

SG854 said:
Unilever a major corporation halts ads for the rest of 2020 because of the toxic environment. This is how bad its gotten.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ebook-instagram-and-twitter-for-rest-of-2020/

yep, its places like buzzfeed that started the media slander party, instigating advertiser harassment campaigns against their competition in the advertising market, I honestly feel like it was intended to drive advertisers to places like themselves and stop people advertising on YouTube etc by creating a toxic atmosphere, then companies started doing just that, this move screwed over thousands of normal people who just made a few YouTube videos and was happy with the $10 a months for random crap....but nope Vox/buzzfeed and eventually all the mainstream media site found if they kept drumming up controversies and amplifying crazy outrage nutters who were finding some questionable YouTube with 45 total views (probably netting them $20 a year woop woop) and purposefully conflating a coke ad being on their channel as an "endorsement" everyone with a brain knows thats bullshit, but the media giants were at war and willing to do whatever it takes to get that 25 billion dollar advertising budget redirected to themselves

I genuinely believe the whole cancel culture was fostered by digital media companies as they simply wanted more money not realising they were poisoning the entire pool that they themselves were living in in the hopes of killing off all the small fry so they get more food at feeding time, and the people who took part in the "i'm so offended" mobs were literally being fed approval by media sites hoping to get that quote on twitter linked in the latest hit piece so they can gain followers and the praise and admiration of their fellow lottery layers for hitting the big time by being shared in a buzzfeed article

honestly it sounds cruel but people need to stop rewarding victims, helping pay rent for someone kicked out is one thing, or providing food for kids, but gofundmes raising $2,000,000 for some who was simply called a mean name would obviously be a massive shiny pot that some people would see as worth lying about to get, once people realise they can essentially win the lottery and bag a bunch of money if they just play victim you suddenly get cases like Jussie smollet, not content with a comfortable well paid job, fame and luxury, nope he needed more....but how can you get more in todays society......oh right, be a victim ofc, I would hope everyone could see how these hoxes that are getting more and more common are a by product of the fetishisation of victimhood, the media are bending over backwards to find americas next top victim to the point they are fooled by even the most absurd unrealistic stories because it has all the right buzzwords that they feel compelled to just blindly run with it so as to not miss out on those early reporter clicks and retweets

Seliph · Jun 29, 2020

Racism is always wrong, and creators should be held accountable for the racism they extol but I think all of this cancel culture shit in the news is just diversionary virtue signaling so people can say that they aren't "racist like those guys" while contributing nothing significant to the Black Lives Matter movement or even working against it. It's the same thing as corporations turning their twitter icons rainbow colors for pride month, it means nothing. Obviously, white people shouldn't voice BIPOC, obviously, white people shouldn't do blackface, obviously, white people shouldn't be racist, I don't even know why this is a debate.

Like there's no reason for people to be focusing so much on this cancel culture stuff while BIPOC are being brutalized in the streets daily by the government, that's a real issue that we should be caring about.

SG854 · Jun 29, 2020

gamesquest1 said:
yep, its places like buzzfeed that started the media slander party, instigating advertiser harassment campaigns against their competition in the advertising market, I honestly feel like it was intended to drive advertisers to places like themselves and stop people advertising on YouTube etc by creating a toxic atmosphere, then companies started doing just that, this move screwed over thousands of normal people who just made a few YouTube videos and was happy with the $10 a months for random crap....but nope Vox/buzzfeed and eventually all the mainstream media site found if they kept drumming up controversies and amplifying crazy outrage nutters who were finding some questionable YouTube with 45 total views (probably netting them $20 a year woop woop) and purposefully conflating a coke ad being on their channel as an "endorsement" everyone with a brain knows thats bullshit, but the media giants were at war and willing to do whatever it takes to get that 25 billion dollar advertising budget redirected to themselves

I genuinely believe the whole cancel culture was fostered by digital media companies as they simply wanted more money not realising they were poisoning the entire pool that they themselves were living in in the hopes of killing off all the small fry so they get more food at feeding time, and the people who took part in the "i'm so offended" mobs were literally being fed approval by media sites hoping to get that quote on twitter linked in the latest hit piece so they can gain followers and the praise and admiration of their fellow lottery layers for hitting the big time by being shared in a buzzfeed article

honestly it sounds cruel but people need to stop rewarding victims, helping pay rent for someone kicked out is one thing, or providing food for kids, but gofundmes raising $2,000,000 for some who was simply called a mean name would obviously be a massive shiny pot that some people would see as worth lying about to get, once people realise they can essentially win the lottery and bag a bunch of money if they just play victim you suddenly get cases like Jussie smollet, not content with a comfortable well paid job, fame and luxury, nope he needed more....but how can you get more in todays society......oh right, be a victim ofc, I would hope everyone could see how these hoxes that are getting more and more common are a by product of the fetishisation of victimhood, the media are bending over backwards to find americas next top victim to the point they are fooled by even the most absurd unrealistic stories because it has all the right buzzwords that they feel compelled to just blindly run with it so as to not miss out on those early reporter clicks and retweets

There is a decades long legal battle between Sony and other TV makers because many big name TV makers all teamed up and conspired against Sony during the CRT era. They also screwed over the customers by raising prices higher then it cost to make CRT's.

I made a thread here.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-crt-tv-consipracy-scam-corporate-greed.566876/

So it's not surprising that major corporations would try to screw each other over to dominate the market and get rid of there competition.

If this is the case then people are nothing but fools and pawns doing the bidding for the corporations.

Its back firing a bit though because of the get woke go broke thing going on. And companies pulling out of advertisement.

Looks like more white actors stopping to voice back characters. Its a bigger deal and not just a small thing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro....rs-are-quitting-non-white-roles-12910375/amp/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Seliph said:
Racism is always wrong, and creators should be held accountable for the racism they extol but I think all of this cancel culture shit in the news is just diversionary virtue signaling so people can say that they aren't "racist like those guys" while contributing nothing significant to the Black Lives Matter movement or even working against it. It's the same thing as corporations turning their twitter icons rainbow colors for pride month, it means nothing. Obviously, white people shouldn't voice BIPOC, obviously, white people shouldn't do blackface, obviously, white people shouldn't be racist, I don't even know why this is a debate.

Like there's no reason for people to be focusing so much on this cancel culture stuff while BIPOC are being brutalized in the streets daily by the government, that's a real issue that we should be caring about.

People should be caring about this cancel culture stuff because people are being branded as racist for insignificant things, kicking them out of a job and cutting them off of their source of income and financial support for their family. And being black listed making it harder for them to find a job. This is why people should care about cancel culture.

Seliph · Jun 29, 2020

SG854 said:
People should be caring about this cancel culture stuff because people are being branded as racist for insignificant things, kicking them out of a job and cutting them off of there source of income and financial support for their family. And being black listed making it harder for them to find a job. This is why people should care about cancel culture.

If people didn't care about cancel culture, there would be no cancel culture and there would be no issue.

Realistically, who is being blacklisted? People who have been racist in the past like Jenna Marbles and Jimmy Kimmel should be held accountable for their racism, they should address their own racism and they should show growth and change, people who have done these things are not the ones getting blacklisted.

If you are called out for racism, and you double down and continue to be racist, you deserve to be blacklisted, simple as that. If you can't take accountability and grow from your actions then employers have no obligation to employ you. no one wants to hire a racist, racism has no place in modern society.

BlastedGuy9905 · Jun 29, 2020

Cancel culture sucks. Fuck up once? Suddenly Twitter is filled with #<literallyanything>IsOverParty, and everyone's like "haha look at him he's CaNcElLeD"

CallmeBerto · Jun 29, 2020

Seliph said:
If people didn't care about cancel culture, there would be no cancel culture and there would be no issue.

Realistically, who is being blacklisted? People who have been racist in the past like Jenna Marbles and Jimmy Kimmel should be held accountable for their racism, they should address their own racism and they should show growth and change, people who have done these things are not the ones getting blacklisted.

If you are called out for racism, and you double down and continue to be racist, you deserve to be blacklisted, simple as that. If you can't take accountability and grow from your actions then employers have no obligation to employ you. no one wants to hire a racist, racism has no place in modern society.

Most time they were jokes that were perfectly acceptable 10, 20, 50 years ago. Holding people up to modern standards is stupid. Also there is a blatant double standard. Be racist towards white people? Nobody cares in fact these same people will throw you a party.

Has Cancel Culture Gone Too Far

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