Hardware Another No-charge Mystery

Theorem · May 18, 2020

I have a new switch, that just starts ok, but not charging battery at all. Charging symbol is displayed when using PD original charger, nothing shown for 5V source (powerbank) but battery actualy depletes.
I have already changed MT92 and also BQ chips (two times) so i suspect there is something else misbehaving.

Some basic measures with the original Nintendo charger and battery (console off)
- No obvious shorts
- Fuse - 15 V both sides
- BQ
PIN 1 (VBUS) 15 V
PINS 13,14 - 3,2V (battery charge)
also BQ seems to be hot (around 65 Celsius according to my FLIR) but this is probably normal

- M92
PIN 5 - 4,5 V
PIN 6 - 0 V
Both go to 3,3 V when console is powered on
PIN 23 S1_DRV_G2 - 21 V
PIN 22 S1_DRV_SRC - 15 V
PIN 21 S2_DRV_G1 21 V
PINS 35 and 37 working fine showing connector orientation (0,2 and 0,9 V or opposite)

P13USB side also no shorts, also 3,3V rail seems (measured on PIN5 and 6) to work just fine when console is on

Any hints where to look next ? What else is involved in battery charging ? Mosfets ? PP5 ?

YuukiON · May 19, 2020

Switch wont charge with less than 2A at least for me.

I have to switches one of them will show charging on 1A cable but won't gain charge at all, the other one won't show it's charging at all.

See if your cable is rated at least 2A and obviously different charge outputs.
And of course, if it's USB C to C cable inspect the switch port might be damaged you can try to check the voltage on B4/9 coming in

andres1234 · May 19, 2020

check resitences near BQi have a similar problem in the past, bq was problem but he dont have short or something

Theorem · May 22, 2020

Console boots just fine. I even repaired docking by P13UISB exchange and choke bypass. It just wont charge f*ing battery at all. It will even display charging symbol but battery will not get any charge (adapter is OK, original nintendo). Tested various batteries.

Reason seems to be no voltage coming to BQ (PIN 1 BQ close to zero) but around M92 critical pins 21,22,23 seems to be ok (except 6, but no direct short to ground on that, will jump to 3,3 only in case console is powered on) .
I have changed both chips like 5 times without any result. I already replaced PP5 mosfet from donor, both SN1 mosfets and replaced USB-C port.....i am about to rework whole area around M92 using my sample books:-) This drives me mad., need someone more experienced with this Japan POS

And no, there are no obvious shorts on side-A of motherboard.I am wondering if there is something related to charging also on side-B ?

Pintglass · May 23, 2020

Theorem said:
Some basic measures with the original Nintendo charger and battery (console off)
- No obvious shorts
- Fuse - 15 V both sides
- BQ
PIN 1 (VBUS) 15 V

Theorem said:
Reason seems to be no voltage coming to BQ (PIN 1 BQ close to zero)

In your first post you said you have got 15V on pin 1 of BQ24193 then in your last post you say its not 15V its zero

The Real Jdbye · May 23, 2020

Owne3d said:
Switch wont charge with less than 2A at least for me.

I have to switches one of them will show charging on 1A cable but won't gain charge at all, the other one won't show it's charging at all.

See if your cable is rated at least 2A and obviously different charge outputs.
And of course, if it's USB C to C cable inspect the switch port might be damaged you can try to check the voltage on B4/9 coming in

That checks out. I've heard the Switch will charge very slowly with a normal powerbank (most of those are 2.1 or 2.4A but the Switch only draws 2A regardless) so obviously a 1A charger would be far too little.

Is one of them the red box Switch? Being more power efficient, that would explain why it behaves differently with the 1A charger. Otherwise, they should be identical, so not sure why they behave differently.

Theorem said:
Console boots just fine. I even repaired docking by P13UISB exchange and choke bypass. It just wont charge f*ing battery at all. It will even display charging symbol but battery will not get any charge (adapter is OK, original nintendo). Tested various batteries.

Reason seems to be no voltage coming to BQ (PIN 1 BQ close to zero) but around M92 critical pins 21,22,23 seems to be ok (except 6, but no direct short to ground on that, will jump to 3,3 only in case console is powered on) .
I have changed both chips like 5 times without any result. I already replaced PP5 mosfet from donor, both SN1 mosfets and replaced USB-C port.....i am about to rework whole area around M92 using my sample books:-) This drives me mad., need someone more experienced with this Japan POS

And no, there are no obvious shorts on side-A of motherboard.I am wondering if there is something related to charging also on side-B ?

Wait, you said the console is new though?

Theorem · May 23, 2020

Pintglass said:
In your first post you said you have got 15V on pin 1 of BQ24193 then in your last post you say its not 15V its zero

Yep, thats new, zero on BQ side. Where VBUS to BQ comes from, directly from USB-C port (VCON pin ?) or is somewhat switched from M92 ?. Maybe my USB-C port replacement is not completely correctly placed, thats only area that was worked on..

Also new is, that it will not boot anymore when assembled. From powerbank using 5V charge with monitor it is not drawing any charge

YuukiON · May 23, 2020

Theorem said:
Yep, thats new, zero on BQ side. Where VBUS to BQ comes from, directly from USB-C port (VCON pin ?) or is somewhat switched from M92 ?. Maybe my USB-C port replacement is not completely correctly placed, thats only area that was worked on..

Also new is, that it will not boot anymore when assembled. From powerbank using 5V charge with monitor it is not drawing any charge

You can try to check if the port isn't shorted to ground? because it might be a faulty cap next to the power IC and now its unable to charge the battery. also if you have a bench power supply you can try and run 5v through the USB cable(cut cheap type c cable hook it up to the supply and provide it with 5v 1/2a) see if anything is getting stupid warm.

You could just zap it to ground as well with 2a and see what is getting hot that way.
Also look at the bat connector flip the pcb around there should be a mosfet close to the usb see if it has it was i think 0.4v - 0.5V last time i checked i think, if its toast it will obviously be open

Theorem · May 23, 2020

Using breakout board tested changed USB-C port and yes, had to reseat it again. I did again all measurements (battery. original charger). Something looks better (Some voltage on PIN 6 VSVR!)

M92
P5 - 4,5V
P6 - 1,8 V
P9 - 15 V
P21 - 21 V
P22 - 15 V
P23 - 21 V
P28 - 0,06 V
P35 - 0,9 V
P36 - 0.8 V
P37 - 0 V

BQ
P1 - 0V
P2 - 0 V
P3 - 3,7 V
PINS 13,14 (VBAT) - 3, 8 V
PINS 15,16 (SYS) - 3,8 V

And still no charging measured directly on the battery.

Problems seems to be around BQ area chich is not getting any input from main voltage rails....maybe BQ is broken ?

Theorem · May 25, 2020

New finding after B-side measurement - There is NO 3,3 voltage on PI3USB (PINS 4,10...).

Theorem · May 26, 2020

Traces leads to broken PMIC MAX77620. Someone please verify my high level understanding of power system on switch:

- PMIC get its power (4V) from SYS output (PINS 15,16) of BQ24193 which i do have (but i dont have VBUS there on PIN 1)
- Output of PMIC are 3,3V and 1,8V rails which on respective test points i dont have (0 V)
- 3,3V from PMIC then powers PI3USB (which i dont have powered - 0 V on PINS 4,10..) and also MT92 (PIN 6 VSVR) which i also dont have any voltage on normally but yes when console is on
- 1,8V rails go probably to MT92 too where they are used to switch mosfets - VEX input to MT92 -> VBUS rail from MT92 to BQ which i also dont have (and therefore nothing on PIN 1 of BQ)

Questions :

Is PMIC supposed to output voltage when i measure mainboard with battery and original nintendo charger but console is probably off (or not ?) - i dont have the rest of the case installed, just mainboard ?
What to measure around PMIC to verify this hypothesis ?
Is it easy to swap BGA PMIC just by hot air - desolder and put new on (have donor) without any reballing and so ?

Theorem · May 26, 2020

Update : now i do have BQ PIN 1 powered after replacement of one of SN1 mosfets (closer to BQ). Everything around MT and BQ is now in norm, even PIN 6 on MT92 s now 3,3V, magic.. Battery charges just fine but only 0,45A from 5 V powerbank and much faster from original nintendo charger there i cant measure draw. But battery level is increasing much faster and BQ is hotter so it probably draw more amperage. This is where good news stop.

After putting it all together i cant turn it on....it just wont start. What to look for in case that charging is probably ok but dont have display ?

YuukiON · May 27, 2020

Now we have two options you should invest in one of the USB multimeters to see if it drains power when you press the power button, i will see if i have any spare boards on hand to give you heads up what you need.
A) power cannot pass on one of the mosfets to cpu/gpu that's why it doesnt boot.
B) The actual cpu/gpu might be toast(extremely rare and almost impossible to happen with newer electronics)

There's always the possibility some small ribbons don't have a proper connection or are torn and switch doesn't want to boot

SheriffBuck · May 28, 2020

Theorem said:
New finding after B-side measurement - There is NO 3,3 voltage on PI3USB (PINS 4,10...).

Sounds like the 3.3v rail is compromised with a short somewhere, hence the excessive load on the battery? Surprised that it actually docks in this state!

Pin 6 on the M92 is driven by the PMIC. It should be reading 3.3v however if the rail is shorted on the board somewhere, you're only seeing half the voltage you need.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Theorem said:
Traces leads to broken PMIC MAX77620. Someone please verify my high level understanding of power system on switch:

- PMIC get its power (4V) from SYS output (PINS 15,16) of BQ24193 which i do have (but i dont have VBUS there on PIN 1)
- Output of PMIC are 3,3V and 1,8V rails which on respective test points i dont have (0 V)
- 3,3V from PMIC then powers PI3USB (which i dont have powered - 0 V on PINS 4,10..) and also MT92 (PIN 6 VSVR) which i also dont have any voltage on normally but yes when console is on
- 1,8V rails go probably to MT92 too where they are used to switch mosfets - VEX input to MT92 -> VBUS rail from MT92 to BQ which i also dont have (and therefore nothing on PIN 1 of BQ)

Questions :

Is PMIC supposed to output voltage when i measure mainboard with battery and original nintendo charger but console is probably off (or not ?) - i dont have the rest of the case installed, just mainboard ?

What to measure around PMIC to verify this hypothesis ?

Is it easy to swap BGA PMIC just by hot air - desolder and put new on (have donor) without any reballing and so ?

On question 1, the board has a factory power-off state that consumes next to nothing to allow the Switch to arrive to the customer without a dead battery. By pulling the battery and any power source, you can trigger that state. Once you provide power on USB Type-C or push the power button, the PMIC fires into action and triggers boot. From this point forward there will be some degree of power consumption over time until the Switch is turned off by cutting power & battery, or user powers off within the menu system (not sleeps).

Theorem · May 29, 2020

Made some partial progress. After measuring eveything again i found, that BQ 24193 PIN 4 (STAT) is switching between 0 and 1,8 Volts which according to datasheet means some kind of error (Jesus knows the specifics) . So i changed BQ chip even there were no shorts around and all main voltage (SYS,VBUS,BAT) checked ok. New BQ on PIN 4 was not telegraphing error anymore so i put it again partialy together and i was able to start to RCM mode and load hekate ! (console is vulnerable)
After rebooting to normal mode, again black screen

Questions :
- What could block console from normal boot if it seems to be working in RCM ? Tegra is probably ok if it boots to RCM and show hekate with all that options right ?
- RCM mode is hit and miss so i suspect there could be somewhat bad connection in USB-C port so my question is - when console is connected to PC should i have standard 5 volts on fuse the same way it works for example from powerbank ?
- What probably missbehaves are D+ and D- datalines and that makes PC connection unreliable. How to measure and verify these..where they go around the mainboard ?

YuukiON · May 31, 2020

Theorem said:
Made some partial progress. After measuring eveything again i found, that BQ 24193 PIN 4 (STAT) is switching between 0 and 1,8 Volts which according to datasheet means some kind of error (Jesus knows the specifics) . So i changed BQ chip even there were no shorts around and all main voltage (SYS,VBUS,BAT) checked ok. New BQ on PIN 4 was not telegraphing error anymore so i put it again partialy together and i was able to start to RCM mode and load hekate ! (console is vulnerable)
After rebooting to normal mode, again black screen

Questions :
- What could block console from normal boot if it seems to be working in RCM ? Tegra is probably ok if it boots to RCM and show hekate with all that options right ?
- RCM mode is hit and miss so i suspect there could be somewhat bad connection in USB-C port so my question is - when console is connected to PC should i have standard 5 volts on fuse the same way it works for example from powerbank ?
- What probably missbehaves are D+ and D- datalines and that makes PC connection unreliable. How to measure and verify these..where they go around the mainboard ?

1) Bios chip, even though it should work fine, it might be possible you are able to get into rcm due to the fact the console is soft bricked and unable to start the system normally
2) I think you will have to change the port itself after so much work it wouldn't hurt to just dump the old one and place a new one in.
Also, follow the "data-trace" which is just power trace from USB there shouldn't be anything specific except for a cap or two going to the cpu

Hardware Another No-charge Mystery

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

*is birb*

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Similar threads

Popular threads in this forum

is birb