Do travel restrictions violate our right to freedom of movement?

notimp · Mar 28, 2020

Now I have to produce sources. Also fuck you and the limping horse of an emotional argument you rode in on.

Instead, the higher case rate among older Americans strongly suggests a true underlying, biological vulnerability, probably exacerbated by preexisting illnesses which, according to data from China, sharply raise the risk of both infection and serious illness.

That likely explains why although older Americans represented 31% of the cases, they accounted for 45% of hospitalizations, 53% of ICU admissions, and 80% of deaths, the CDC reported.

In contrast, no ICU admissions or deaths were reported among people younger than 20.

That, too, fits with data from other countries. In South Korea, for example, which had an early surge of cases, the death rate in Covid-19 patients ages 80 and over was 10.4%, compared to 5.35% in 70-somethings, 1.51% in patients 60 to 69, 0.37% in 50-somethings. Even lower rates were seen in younger people, dropping to zero in those 29 and younger.

src: https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/18...of-risk-confirms-young-adults-not-invincible/

If you cant read the newsarticles telling young people "they are not immune" for what they are (idiot bait, aimed at idiots that dont respect curfews, because they dont understand that even if they are young, theyd still be great carriers of the virus), thats not my fault.

If you then jump on "lacross player thats so dreamy, also has it, how horrible" - thats yours, because you fundamentaly dont understand how statistics work.

South Korea was one of the countries that handled the outbreak rather well. US did not - but then population densitiy is higher in South Korea, so that should average out over the entire US population (Meaning, in big cities, probably more than 0.2% of young people will die.).

Now get lost with your human interest stories of that dreamy eyed lacross player - if you are not receptive to actual figures.

(Dont run your mouth.)

edit: See also:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

JayMathis · Mar 28, 2020

I know what the stats say but this virus is 2 months old. it's not like the flu where they know long term. I hope you spend hours finding sources because I won't be reading them. You seem to have trouble with common sense.

Seliph · Mar 28, 2020

Yes, it does.

Feel free to travel if you'd like though!

notimp · Mar 28, 2020

JayMathis said:
it's not like the flu where they know long term.

Median time to death: 15 days.
That stretches out to 3 months at the long end.

First Covid 19 cases were traced back to November of last year.

We already know - as in definitely know - what percentage of young people are dying - if health systems are not collapsing.

Its not like that we would wake up three weeks from now and that 0.2% figure will have increased manyfold - it never will.

Just understand what these articles are - truisms ( because - yes, young people are not invincible - also yes, they also get hospitalized and put on ventilators at a higher rate than those 0.2% indicate) that are out there to make young people also respect curfews - because if they don't the entire measure doesnt work.

Also yes, even 0.2% of people are no joke.

(If virus stops at 70% propagation rate, 70% of US population are 230 mio people, 0.2% of that are 460.000 dead people, if the rate is double that - nearly a million. (Thats in a 'no vaccine' and 70% propagation within a year scenario.))

edit: Had to remove young twice, because - not how math works.

(The 460.000 people in the example above are not all young.)

D34DL1N3R · Mar 28, 2020

Seems a lot of people don't understand their freedoms and what violations of freedoms actually mean. No, travel restrictions do NOT violate anyone's freedoms. You are still free to do as you wish. It's like trying to say "My freedom of speech was violated because I was fired for calling my boss a dumb fucker to his face!!!" Ummm no, your freedom of speech was not taken away. You were free to say as you wanted, and you did. Thing is, freedom to do something does not = freedom from consequence for ones actions.

notimp · Mar 28, 2020

Actual people living in the US under the age of 35: 150mio, 70% of that are 105mio, 0.2% of those dying are 210.000.

So those should be roughly be (likely less, because 0.2% was the value in my age bracket (30-35) I remember) the number of "young" people dying in the US because of Corona (compared to an overall estimate of people dying in the US of about 2 million (better quality number (derived from models (Imperial College London for the US)), than the 0.2% flat value for "young people" I'm operating with)) in a no vaccine scenario. Not the 460.000 mentioned above.

My mistake - I wrote it very late last night.

subcon959 · Mar 28, 2020

Hold the phone.. @notimp is a millennial? This is scandalous news!

notimp · Mar 28, 2020

subcon959 said:
Hold the phone.. @notimp is a millennial? This is scandalous news!

In my defense, I always said so - while making the 'millennial culture kind of isnt that great' posts to begin with.

(Much harsher words were used in the actual postings.

)

edit: For reference: https://gbatemp.net/blog/notimp.101990/ (Originally was a forum post, moderators moved it to the blogs section. (Also I'm actually 36 now - just in the spirit of open disclosure..

))

TunaKetchup · Mar 28, 2020

D34DL1N3R said:
Seems a lot of people don't understand their freedoms and what violations of freedoms actually mean. No, travel restrictions do NOT violate anyone's freedoms. You are still free to do as you wish. It's like trying to say "My freedom of speech was violated because I was fired for calling my boss a dumb fucker to his face!!!" Ummm no, your freedom of speech was not taken away. You were free to say as you wanted, and you did. Thing is, freedom to do something does not = freedom from consequence for ones actions.

Well youre about 10% right

Freedom of speech in most cases prevents government prosecution.

It really has nothing to do with saying bad things to your boss

Deleted member 514389 · Mar 28, 2020

Probably not as much as these "freespirited" travlers violate the safety of ppl.

There, watch this.

D34DL1N3R · Mar 28, 2020

TunaKetchup said:
Well youre about 10% right

Freedom of speech in most cases prevents government prosecution.

It really has nothing to do with saying bad things to your boss

Ummm. Ever heard of an example or illustration? You are about ZERO percent right. Freedom of speech is not taken away even if there is government prosecution. Freedom of anything does NOT equal freedom from consequence from enacting upon any said freedom. Try going around making terroristic threats and see what happens. You know nothing about how freedom of anything works.

screwdriver8932 · Mar 28, 2020

To clarify with those who called me an idiot, I agree that we should not travel. I am asking this out of curiosity, not frustration.

Millqa · Mar 31, 2020

Of course, restrictions or prohibitions on leaving the country violate our rights. But if we are talking about a worldwide quarantine, unfortunately, we will have to wait for it to be lifted. This should be done for our health. By the way, this is terribly spoiling our plans. I was about to have a wedding and a bachelor party in Orlando. Now both the wedding and the party must be postponed until better times. We will need to check availability and book rooms in advance, because this is a very popular place and all rooms often are unavailable.

FAST6191 · Mar 31, 2020

Millqa said:
Of course, restrictions or prohibitions on leaving the country violate our rights. But if we are talking about a worldwide quarantine, unfortunately, we will have to wait for it to be lifted.

Ignoring the earlier stuff about the right not extending to times of problems (whether it is or is not is a different discussion) then you tend not to have the right to go to another country.

For another one I was reading a US passport a while back. It said in it don't allow holders of this passport to enter/travel to a list of a few countries. Now most of those you probably don't want to be wandering around as an American. Does your passport violate those rights you imagine you have?

notimp · Mar 31, 2020

Sweden has a different corona strategy btw. social distancing but voluntary. Universities are closed, schools are open. Country is about as big as Austria (country neighboring Italy) - so you can compare the two lets say at the end of the year, or in two/three years (after peak, after 'end' of epidemic) to see if social distancing - with an intelligent pubic

- would have made sense.

Currently the number of people that died of corona in the two countries (the most 'reliable' figure) is roughly the same.

(You'd have to look up hospital capacity, demography wise they should have about the same amount of older people.)

adeptape · Jul 17, 2020

people should not have the right to jeopardize the safety of other people.

CallmeBerto · Jul 25, 2020

Not really.

I mean you should be able to travel anywhere within your own country but no other country (lets say the USA) has to accept you.

Do travel restrictions violate our right to freedom of movement?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Best Girl ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ

Well-Known Member

Nephilim

Well-Known Member

@!#?@!

Well-Known Member

The Goose is Loose

GBA Connoisseur

Nephilim

Member

Member

Techromancer

Well-Known Member

Active Member

The Lone Wanderer

Similar threads

Popular threads in this forum