We changed the world

supersonicwaffle · May 8, 2019

H1B1Esquire said:
You know, I can see both happening; parkour before MTG (because poker has to happen before MTG) and I really wouldn't mind if it was done correctly.
If you have a few minutes, skip through

I know, she's like Sarah Silverman (in terms of "being real"), but it would be fun to nerd out with someone genuine.

Before Poker happens, Chess has to happen as it's already recognized as a sport by the IOC and they refused to include it in the Olympic Games for over a century. I'd say there's about a 0% chance of things like MTG ever being included.

What I would like to see however, is something like the European Championships for board and card games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Championships_(multi-sport_event)

It was first organized last year and coordinated all the European Championship events for different sports to be in the same location at the same time, like a mini Eurolympics, it was fantastic entertainment.

Saiyan Lusitano · May 8, 2019

Huh, people still watch the Olympic Games. Guess it's better than watching someone awkwardly doing CrossFit or that embarrassment of the Eurovision.

H1B1Esquire · May 8, 2019

notimp said:
Then I remember

Kind of--she'll end up in an office, but doing what she's already doing: designing.
I can see her getting into snowboarding and probably golf.

supersonicwaffle said:
What I would like to see however, is something like the European Championships for board and card games.

I mean, the Olympics officially began in 1896. By 1924, there was an inclusion of the Winter games. In 1960, the first Paralympic events were held.

I'll go out on a limb and say by 2036, there will be a drastic change to the Olympics.

Saiyan Lusitano said:
people still watch the Olympic Games.

If you can't resonate with any event, for any reason, it's

I really started watching the Olympics from making drinking games out of everything...then making bets.....then I was a full-blown addict

.

Taleweaver · May 8, 2019

Heh...I personally have barely anything with skateboarding, but still: it's nice that your enthusiast about it. And you're right as well: I'm sure skateboarding is way more popular than some other olympic sports. So...good news all around!

Oh, and for that matter...

H1B1Esquire said:
So, go out there, live a little; your hobby may one day be an Olympic sport.

It's coincidence, but certainly on-topic: one of my hobbies (karate) actually made it to an Olympic sport as well!

(perhaps I've got to note that my senseis take note of this news with mixed feelings. There is certainly some competitive element to karate, but it is far from the only part. As such, they hope that the participation won't attract people who think that karate is "just", or even remotely like, what is shown in the Olympic games)

notimp · May 8, 2019

Free of metaphers. Those "job profiles" only exist, because brands want to market themselves as "free, open spirited, out of the box". So that people in office jobs, that didnt have the drive to be that can buy those products advertised, and feel, that they are "part" of that.

Its outrageous (value attribution through commercial symbols) but its something that works. It may even be the main driver of commercialism this day.

Now. From the brands perspectives they just hold themselves a few marketable individuals that "live the alternative dream" then charge their products with that image, then sell them only because of the image. Otherwise it might as well be sugar water.

Just look up all the "specialty extreme sports" that redbull invented, to then sell. They made it full circle. Media outlets production and marketing, all in house.

Others are still tapping into youth culture, or alternative subcultures for the same reason.

Now - 10 year old girl, could you talk a bit more into the camera, about why you like milk so much? Milk is our sponsor you see...

And yet, those people can live their dreams (professioal skater), because of advertisers.

We are into videogames, right? Watch this.

Then you'll also get the tragic aspect of it. Its a dichotomy. But then, yay for the olympics, thats something to be celebrated .

Not a moment to get into those aspects.

I just cant see two brand advertorial videos, and not also go a little into that stuff as well.

Glyptofane · May 8, 2019

Hanafuda said:
I hate all subjectively judged sports in the Olympics. Figure skating, gymnastics, snowboarding, etc. "Points for style" and all that. If you're gonna hand out medals, it should be based on clear objective results.

I kind of used to feel this way until I watched men's gymnastics. The technical aspect of the sport is more apparent when they do it, but it also made me appreciate women's gymnastics in a new light other than just being graceful and pretty.

H1B1Esquire · May 8, 2019

My dude, you are too woke.

notimp said:
Just look up

I mean, the world is what it is--you have to change the way you think to understand why the world is changing; the world is doing what it does, seemingly, without you.

Judging from other things you've said (like that one time you expressed your feelings on the Oscars), it seems you can't find peace out of the pieces.

I actually expect you to do a blog on how man-buns are destroying masculinity by mid-summer.

The best I can tell you: no one is telling you that you can't be you, but you might want to expose yourself to new things.

Maybe all of this is shaping you into the person you were meant to become?
I don't know, but I can tell you Earth is a big place; the world is small. Think with the Earth, not with the world.

notimp · May 8, 2019

Look - I was exposed to ecology as a philosophy for my entire upbringing. Learned one thing out of it. It never really matters to the rest of the world.

That this should now change on a whim, because people fell in love with a child that crafted a sign, to me is an insult of a magnitude you cant imagine. Thats something I really could never get over.

Next - I engulfed myself in communication theory and journalism, just to see that field die in the wake of "what people really are interested in is well produced emotional fluff". Fuck journalism (we had this discussion in here also.).

While companies like facebook touted, that their value was "connecting the world" - out of which grew, suprisingly - almost nothing, and then a scandal of microtargeting people into non action at election cycles. But we are fine with that, because its so convenient.

I then ventured into marketing and advertising. Which for anyone with an empathic sort of personality is a hellhole.

I also was a prodigy "influencer" way back when the term wasnt coined. Only for a short while.

I do nothing but to speak out of experience in those fields. I'm the product of it.

I can take one worry off of you - I will not end up as a lunatic raving over society destroying masculinity models - because I find that stuff to be silly to no end.

In a sense, your image of me is pretty much wrong.

But off topic - not to be discussed in here.

Here, read attribution, marketing on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_(marketing)
You also can pick up some books on the subject matter at your local university library. I dont make this stuff up. Thats actually the working principal behind it.

Also if you press me - can we have a discussion, that 10 year olds are used as corporate mouthpieces in the video you posted, because I find that actually outrageous - but then I think, we would sidetrack this thread with that discussion entirely.

So maybe not.

edit: Here is an article about emotionally charging your brands (again, this is a staple concept in marketing): https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes...-connections-create-champions-for-your-brand/ I think using 10 year olds for that would work perfectly btw.

So why do you think drinking milk is such an essential part of your life as a 10 year old? Speak into the camera.
-

Also if you didn't watch the Daigo video above - that videogame business hero, that maybe singlehandedly sold more fighting sticks, than half of Mad Cats marketing department, had to venture into a career nursing at an old peoples home, at one point, before getting picked up for a "pro gamer" contract - by one of the connected brands - to be a living testimonial.

Skating almost went into obscurity after being "the" darling youth sport of a generation, just because advertisers lost interest. The business model of every pro skater, every twitch streamer, every professional sports person that isnt into a team sport - is literally - get an advertising contract - or move onto another career path.

So dreams, and aspirational videos, wonderful (I really liked them). But thats largely how you make money in those fields.

H1B1Esquire · May 8, 2019

notimp said:
That this should now change on a whim, because people fell in love with a child that crafted a sign

Like Baby Jesus

But seriously, I feel you on having strong feelings, but when you did that Oscars thread, you painted a really brave and stunning picture of yourself. This is why I had to think you were between 13-23 with limited life experience.
You could probably benefit from making a blog about yourself.

notimp · May 8, 2019

No Problem.

I even get that its rational to care about the environment.

Its just that the "suspension of disbelief" in this instance is so high, I'd have to figuratively jump the moon on that one.

And now, friends.

--

And please guys, talk more about having made the Olympics, I'm actually happy for you all.
Thats a real achievement for the sport.

H1B1Esquire · May 8, 2019

notimp said:
Thats a real achievement for the sport.

My dude, you are less woke, but too brash on the sarcasm.

Also, I don't normally quote a whole reply if it's over two sentences or 150 characters, but

notimp said:
No Problem. I even get that its rational to care about the environment.

Its just that the "suspension of disbelief" in this instance is so high, I'd have to figuratively jump the moon on that one.

And now, friends.
--

And please guys, talk more about having made the Olympics, I'm actually happy for you all.

where are you going with this?
If I summarize most of what you posted, it seems you have a really bad grudge with advertising companies using marketing tactics derived from psychological tests.

I'm actually lost if you think other people don't know the world is bullshit on dogshit under rat turds, but.....we know.

There's definitely something going on with you that you need to work out, man. No offense, but it's like, "Stop making me read through what you're saying--get to the point of it!"

notimp · May 8, 2019

OK.

Using 10 year olds as testimonials is out of the question. If you are doing this your are at least two kinds of evil To use them as testimonals for both milk(tm) and chidrens surfbords - at the same time, then try to make the video have a self empowering message of women can do anything, if you just believe, just is the icing on top.

Next. What influencer marketing actually did, was to remove any quarrels that established mediasystems might have had towards "native advertising" (selling out), and pitched the every man into that situation, without them ever having thought about how to react, and so they usually are in for the ride, as long as money flows in.

We actually learned in journalism school, how to behave in those situation. Nowadays thats all but a joke, a distant memory - no one but established outlets is taking that seriously.

Now - despite what you actually think, I dont have a bad grudge with advertising, Im bringing to this thread - I just spelled out how attribution marketing works.

Brands are out to "score high recognition" in certain keyword categories, that are linked to emotions. People buy them, because they think a brand is situated, innovative, sustainable, intelligent, creative, adventurous, .. and so on. And they actually do so, because even though they dont go for that stuff in real life, buying those products will make them feel, like they strife, and even attained those attributes. Expensive watch, spots car - successful. Walking stick in hand, branded hiking backback - individual adventure seeker.

Brands on their side target those demographics by actually creating example customers, and then writing up individualized plans, to what aspect of their brand image will speak to a specific person in what stage of their life. Like Branda is an art loving free spirit, with two children that response well to security forward messaging, with and artful presentation. But they then not only go after what you are, but also after what you aspire to be. (But maybe never act on.)

So its perfectly fine, to find a Coca Cola owned brand on the hat of a Pro skater, because - while eating chips, and drinking monster, that individual actually feels, that they are connecting to a more active sport centered lifestyle. Put on your Nikes - and you practically have all the attributes, that your favorite sport personalities have. In your emotional perception.

Thats why you are buying them.

So the most important things, brands are looking for - are inspiring images they can connect to. Because that stuff that skater does, is actually why a consumer will buy their products.

This link is not a naive one, its entirely on purpose - and everyone in the business knows what they are doing.

If you want a "dont remind me that the world isn't as fluffy as the video testimonials I'm posting" outcome to your thread, I suggest you dont post videos where children get exploited.

The Monester hat, Nike shoes, white earphones, blood on concrete, aspirational - lets try again, hero or death video, thats as close to blood an honor imagery as Nike will allow - I've less of an issue with.

Also - if your entire industry is about geting bought out to play figureheads for brands - at least dont get pissy at someone mentioning that.

Also I really dont think, that thats something I have to work out, since thats a pretty much factual description of the actual environment those two videos on the first page were shot in.

Sorry - that I'm bringing up that context - but selling yourself out, so other people will buy products in your name - isnt as aspirational as many people might think. I know that we live in the age of instagram marketing, but I still dont think that all thats needed in that context is for me to shut up.

I didn't even trash the ad industry at first - I just indicated, that there is something "wrong" with those videos.

Now its getting to the point, where I simply want to win this argument, for the arguments sake.

Bad choice of video, thats all.

What did you think marketing was? Handing out money to great people?

Hanafuda · May 8, 2019

Glyptofane said:
I kind of used to feel this way until I watched men's gymnastics. The technical aspect of the sport is more apparent when they do it, but it also made me appreciate women's gymnastics in a new light other than just being graceful and pretty.

I know what you mean, but I didn't say I hated gymnastics itself (or any of the others I listed, or skateboarding)> I said I don't like these subjectively judged sports being in the Olympics. I guess it's just bad childhood memories of blatantly corrupt combloc judges giving all the Russian gymnasts and skaters perfect scores, while pissing on all others, back in the 70's. Maybe there are Russians in their 50's today with similar negative feelings about British, American, French and etc. judges back then, but what I remember is that if the "West's" judges were also biased, they at least weren't anywhere near as blatant about it. The combloc judges were like, "Ten point fucking zero. WTF you gonna do about it?!?"

H1B1Esquire · May 8, 2019

notimp said:
Now its getting to the point

Where you're starting to really, really contradict yourself.

I highly doubt you'd write nearly 1,500 words if you weren't motivated in some small way against the advertising companies.

You seem to demonize the entirety of the simple fact the world is changing for the better by dissecting every point, on every level as something on an episode of Mad Men.

Verily, you have not exposed yourself to the world correctly.
You've taken every negative part and streamlined that across the board.

Do you know why I bought a pair of Nike Dunks 14 years ago? They were fucking expensive and to me, it was an investment. No ad made me do it; I did it because I wanted to.

Do you think it's possible people do things without an ulterior motive?

I think you might benefit from having real friends. Like, real friends you actually go and see, who aren't like you. I'm sure IRL, you're the bee's knees, but you're very hard to talk to because it seems you always have some rigmarole to get you to get to the point.

Glyptofane · May 9, 2019

Hanafuda said:
I know what you mean, but I didn't say I hated gymnastics itself (or any of the others I listed, or skateboarding)> I said I don't like these subjectively judged sports being in the Olympics. I guess it's just bad childhood memories of blatantly corrupt combloc judges giving all the Russian gymnasts and skaters perfect scores, while pissing on all others, back in the 70's. Maybe there are Russians in their 50's today with similar negative feelings about British, American, French and etc. judges back then, but what I remember is that if the "West's" judges were also biased, they at least weren't anywhere near as blatant about it. The combloc judges were like, "Ten point fucking zero. WTF you gonna do about it?!?"

I totally see what you are saying. Obviously men are the masters of this garbage display, but how then do you as a judge determine the masters among women between asians, Russians, and Americans. Seems like they make it up. I get it.

notimp · May 9, 2019

@H1B1Esquire:
In a small way, sure.

I'm also not out to make people not purchase brands, just do as you please. There is another strange part to value attribution - it works. And not only for the individual, but also for society at large. So if you buy an apple product you suddenly will be looked at as affluent and smart. And if you have a Glashütte watch, and people know the brand, you will be looked at as distinguished but not snobby.

Also, emotional brandvalue is not in any way related to manufacturing quality, as a host of kickstarter products (that may never be manufactured

) has impressively proven. The other part that gets you constantly, if you've ever worked in this industry, is that people deny those principals effecting them. Everybody buys brand, but if you ask them in focus groups, why they do so - they always do it - because they themselves saw the deeper intrinsic quality of the good, while other people have been affected by advertising. Its even in the literature. People dont like to think about how this stuff works, and that it might have worked on them.

Why all the negativity, in a thread that didn't call for it?

Because you posted a video with a 10 year old child testimonial, that got used to advertise two products, while the video was supposed to carry a self empowerment message.

That stuff is unethical to the core. As in - in my country we have ethics councils, that look at advertisements and publicly warn agencies, if they cross lines. You've never heard of that because thats an industry internal mechanism, thats non binding, but at least your agency gets a public scolding. Using children as brand testimonials, is crossing that line. Doing it, while making the spot about self empowerment is crossing another one - but thats more in the realm of taste.

Now - finding the positive aspects of things. In advertising, there are none. Well, thats not perfectly true - because capitalism depends on people buying products, when they have little to no need for them, so you place them as being able to fill emotional holes in that individuals life. Thats what makes the system work. But even that is highly cynical. Also, what you are doing with successful advertising, is that you are concentrating markets, so adding to duopolies. In every sector, usually only two to three brands will be responsible for 60+% of revenue in the sector. (Thats why you are always on the lookout for niches) Everyone else makes peanuts. And if a new and promising product enters the market, you usually try to outcompete it, or copy their featureset. You as an advertiser of course love that, because they in return are the ones that tend to heavily bank on you to keep their market position.

I could now go into, how brand loyalty works, and that you have to catch the right moment - if a person is actively deciding between different options on the market, and that targeted online advertising helped immensely with that, but then I think I should stop.

We still have to talk about the fact, that you tried to leave this conversation twice while putting me down with "your personality is wrong", you shouldnt focus on all the stuff thats wrong with the presentation aspect of the videos in this thread.

Let me ask you one final question. Why are you sharing ads in the first place? Because they are inspiring to you and therefore other people? Do you often share ads?
-

Also, could I interest you in canned water?

Startups now are selling water in cans. Premium-Water. In Energy-Drink cans. They then sport names like "Liquid Death" (Tagline: MURDER YOUR THIRST).The playing field now has become crowded with buzzwordy options like Bulletproof FATwater (“Sugar-free Ketogenic Brain Octane and B Vitamins”) and LIFEWTR (“Premium Purified Water, pH Balanced with Electrolytes For Taste”).
https://www.thegazette.com/subject/...ch-bros-who-are-too-cool-for-alcohol-20190507

Can I interest you in a craft beer instead? Because thats those bottling plans, trying to branch out. Maybe I can tell you the story behind brand testimonials in podcasts? Has your favorite podcaster ever told you, that they only advertise the products they like, and they can stand by? Its actually the other way around. Advertisers now demand from their adhosts to implement bits that tell the audience that they use it in their own lives - because the conversion rate is better. Ever thought of buying bedding online? Thats interesting, because that business didn't exist six years ago - it all had to do with packaging - and nothing with having a better product. I could also link to a video, where a youtube videonetwork tries to convince an Instagram influencer of the age of 14 to sign with them, to get "perks" like free sponsored trips, when she clearly doesnt want to - and would be better of seeking out sponsorships on her own, if she ever would want to. Those things I'm sensitive to.

And if you think thats my problem and not yours - I can understand that notion, but I will not follow that argument.

H1B1Esquire · May 29, 2019

notimp said:
Let me ask you one final question.

Are you happy? I see you edited your post--the part about "winning an argument".

Have these past twenty days changed you? Have you been able to see the forest from the trees?

Deleted User · May 30, 2019

I really hope they're not going to spend thirty minutes talking about the history of each player like they do for the other sports. I've been out of practice for a while, but I believe there's still a very strong anti-authority feel around the skating culture, right?

FAST6191 · May 30, 2019

TerribleTy27 said:
I really hope they're not going to spend thirty minutes talking about the history of each player

*titters at memories of being told "you can't play skateboarding here"*

Anyway I hope they do. I would actually tune in to see the Olympic announcers try to make sense of video parts and likely royally hose it up.

H1B1Esquire · May 30, 2019

TerribleTy27 said:
there's still a very strong anti-authority feel around the skating culture, right?

Somewhat--I'd say 15 years ago was worse, but that was because of the popularity of skateboarding. I was also 16, 15 years ago, and didn't worry about the law or paying fines.

As for the history of the competitors, since the world is changing, I'd say you probably won't notice the intros, as they'll (most likely) be snuck into the Olympics in that, The Office/Modern Family "documentary "technique"".

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