Hacking Question How much for the next CFW 7.0? According to your experience?

nashismo · Feb 16, 2019

So yes, that is my question. According to you guys experience, how much more time should we wait until a new custom firmware is available?

Mostly I want to know about SX OS, because I bought a Switch with SX OS on it, and I updated exactly on the same day the 7.0 update was going live! (I wanted to update to 6.2) I forgot to check this forum full of pirate friends

So, how much has taken in the past?

Thank you all and take care.

Draxzelex · Feb 16, 2019

June 15th

nashismo · Feb 16, 2019

Draxzelex said:
June 15th

Ok, I know you guys don't know, but my question is how much has it taken in the past to make a new CFW. Not asking for a specific date, I know that's ridiculous.

menadwen · Feb 16, 2019

Sometime in the next 24 to 8760 hours.

larrypretty · Feb 16, 2019

one or two month, I guess

PyroGoat · Feb 16, 2019

All of the above ^^^

Lacius · Feb 16, 2019

nashismo said:
So yes, that is my question. According to you guys experience, how much more time should we wait until a new custom firmware is available?

Mostly I want to know about SX OS, because I bought a Switch with SX OS on it, and I updated exactly on the same day the 7.0 update was going live! (I wanted to update to 6.2) I forgot to check this forum full of pirate friends

So, how much has taken in the past?

Thank you all and take care.

7.0.0 is different from the other software updates for various reasons I won't get into. However, it has been hacked, and a method is being implemented that will allow CFW to work with 7.0.0 without having to release any keys nor burn any exploits. Please be patient. It could be a few days or a few weeks. There is also no real reason to be on 7.0.0 right now, so there is no rush.

nashismo · Feb 16, 2019

menadwen said:
Sometime in the next 24 to 8760 hours.

Ok, so I am going to be mocked for eternity now. But how long has it take before? That is a better question I guess.

PyroGoat · Feb 16, 2019

Also ...... Boo to these threads.

nashismo · Feb 16, 2019

Lacius said:
7.0.0 is different from the other software updates for various reasons I won't get into. However, it has been hacked, and a method is being implemented that will allow CFW to work with 7.0.0 without having to release any keys nor burn any exploits. Please be patient. It could be a few days or a few weeks. There is also no real reason to be on 7.0.0 right now, so there is no rush.

OK, thank you. Take care and thanks for your time and for not mocking like the others

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Ok, I'll answer myself, last time it took 24 days. Nintendo released 6.2 in November 19 and SX executer team released the compatible CFW in december 13th.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Lacius said:
7.0.0 is different from the other software updates for various reasons I won't get into. However, it has been hacked, and a method is being implemented that will allow CFW to work with 7.0.0 without having to release any keys nor burn any exploits. Please be patient. It could be a few days or a few weeks. There is also no real reason to be on 7.0.0 right now, so there is no rush.

When you say: "without having to release any keys nor burn any exploits" does that means that the next custom firmware "should" somehow be "better" and more ban proof? If it ever releases that is?

Deleted User · Feb 16, 2019

2 weeks or so was quoted and rough estimate. We are in week 2 i believe. Wonder why TX hasn't released anything :/

garyopa · Feb 16, 2019

Don't worry, Be Happy -- As Nintendo is already planning and testing v8.0.0-1 (enjoy!)

PyroGoat · Feb 16, 2019

garyopa said:
Don't worry, Be Happy -- As Nintendo is already planning and testing v8.0.0-1 (enjoy!)

The chase has begun......

Draxzelex · Feb 16, 2019

nashismo said:
Ok, I know you guys don't know, but my question is how much has it taken in the past to make a new CFW. Not asking for a specific date, I know that's ridiculous.

There's been two other instances where a firmware update delayed support from CFW: 6.0 and 6.2. This is because CFW became prominent after 5.1 was dropped (and hence why 6.0 was hyped up a lot more than what it actually seemed like).

First, we'll go over firmware 6.0. It was released on September 18th, 2018. SX OS may have been the first to announce support firmware (before the firmware was even officially released), they were honeypotted. Atmosphere was the first to announce support the day after. SX OS finally offered full support with V2.0 on September 23rd. ReiNX followed suit on September 25. Now you'll notice it only took up to a week for all CFW to support this firmware but this was before Nintendo starting embedding keys in TSEC.

With firmware 6.2, Nintendo used their saving grace, TSEC, which was pretty much a blackbox before this update. It was officially released on November 19th, 2018 and the first CFW did not publicly offer support for 7.0 until November 29th which is longer than the time it took the CFW that took the longest time to add support for 6.0 (publicly is italicized here because Atmosphere announced BYOK or bring your own keys support which could not be utilized by the mass public as there was no way of retrieving those keys). ReiNX came second place this time around announcing 6.2 support on December 9th. SX OS now is in last place only offering support on December 19th which is a full month after the firmware was dropped.

Comparatively, its better to look at firmware 6.2 than firmware 6.0 as the reason support for 7.0 is lagging behind is identical to the reason it delayed support for 6.2; Nintendo started hiding the keys in TSEC. As in both previous cases and in the current situation, Atmosphere will most likely be the bread winner for 7.0 support. Whomever comes in second or third place is not all too significant but there is no telling when any CFW will officially announce support for 7.0. By the way, 7.0 was released on January 28th, 2019 and it has already been 2 and a half weeks with no support which is longer than the initial gap between 6.2's arrival and Atmosphere's official support.

nashismo · Feb 16, 2019

Draxzelex said:
There's been two other instances where a firmware update delayed support from CFW: 6.0 and 6.2. This is because CFW became prominent after 5.1 was dropped (and hence why 6.0 was hyped up a lot more than what it actually seemed like).

First, we'll go over firmware 6.0. It was released on September 18th, 2018. SX OS may have been the first to announce support firmware (before the firmware was even officially released), they were honeypotted. Atmosphere was the first to announce support the day after. SX OS finally offered full support with V2.0 on September 23rd. ReiNX followed suit on September 25. Now you'll notice it only took up to a week for all CFW to support this firmware but this was before Nintendo starting embedding keys in TSEC.

With firmware 6.2, Nintendo used their saving grace, TSEC, which was pretty much a blackbox before this update. It was officially released on November 19th, 2018 and the first CFW did not publicly offer support for 7.0 until November 29th which is longer than the time it took the CFW that took the longest time to add support for 6.0 (publicly is italicized here because Atmosphere announced BYOK or bring your own keys support which could not be utilized by the mass public as there was no way of retrieving those keys). ReiNX came second place this time around announcing 6.2 support on December 9th. SX OS now is in last place only offering support on December 19th which is a full month after the firmware was dropped.

Comparatively, its better to look at firmware 6.2 than firmware 6.0 as the reason support for 7.0 is lagging behind is identical to the reason it delayed support for 6.2; Nintendo started hiding the keys in TSEC. As in both previous cases and in the current situation, Atmosphere will most likely be the bread winner for 7.0 support. Whomever comes in second or third place is not all too significant but there is no telling when any CFW will officially announce support for 7.0. By the way, 7.0 was released on January 28th, 2019 and it has already been 2 and a half weeks with no support which is longer than the initial gap between 6.2's arrival and Atmosphere's official support.

Wow thank you so much for taking the time to write all of this. Do you know what Lacius was referring when he said this about the next possible 7.0 custom firmware: "will allow CFW to work with 7.0.0 without having to release any keys nor burn any exploits".

Does that means that the next CFW would have to be better so to speak? And more ban proof? Cheers, and thanks again for your time.

huma_dawii · Feb 16, 2019

My guess is 2 weeks from now

chippy · Feb 16, 2019

nashismo said:
Does that means that the next CFW would have to be better so to speak? And more ban proof?

Won't be more "ban proof" just means they don't want to release exploites that Nintendo and the general public know so Nintendo doesn't close them in 8.0.
The devs have exploites that Nintendo don't know and not used in today's cfw. They want to keep them as long as possible

Draxzelex · Feb 16, 2019

nashismo said:
Wow thank you so much for taking the time to write all of this. Do you know what Lacius was referring when he said this about the next possible 7.0 custom firmware: "will allow CFW to work with 7.0.0 without having to release any keys nor burn any exploits".

Does that means that the next CFW would have to be better so to speak? And more ban proof? Cheers, and thanks again for your time.

CFW does not magically work; its a modification of the firmware currently running on the console. However the firmware on the console is encrypted and doesn't matter what CFW it is, the CFW has to decrypt the firmware in order to modify it. Now before 6.2, the keys needed to decrypt the firmware were in the NAND so it was trivial to obtain them with the current exploit. However, since 6.2, Nintendo began hiding the keys in TSEC which the current exploit does not give any access to. For 6.2, hackers used a trick to grab the keys from TSEC which Nintendo patched out in 7.0. Luckily hackers were able to dump the 7.0 keys despite that as evidenced by the hashes being dumped a mere 2 hours after 7.0 was dropped. However if hackers were to implement the way they dumped these keys into CFW, it would just be patched out yet again by Nintendo in a future update, continuing the cat-and-mouse game where hackers would need to find yet another way of dumping the keys from TSEC. One workaround would be the BYOK where users provide the keys externally rather than having the CFW derive the keys but this is highly illegal and not a sound long-term strategy. The other way would be having CFW derive the keys without using the "exploit" they used to dump them in the first place (exploit is in quotes because they did not achieve arbitrary code execution on the TSEC but were able to achieve enough access to dump the keys it was hiding). It has absolutely nothing to do with the CFW "being better" or "ban proof". It only relates to how CFW patches the firmware in order to boot the console; hackers will have to make the CFW get the keys from TSEC without forcing users to bring their own keys or using the exploit they used in the first place to dump the keys. For end-users, very little will change and they will not even notice it. For people closely following the scene, its an interesting look behind the scenes.

nashismo · Feb 16, 2019

Draxzelex said:
CFW does not magically work; its a modification of the firmware currently running on the console. However the firmware on the console is encrypted and doesn't matter what CFW it is, the CFW has to decrypt the firmware in order to modify it. Now before 6.2, the keys needed to decrypt the firmware were in the NAND so it was trivial to obtain them with the current exploit. However, since 6.2, Nintendo began hiding the keys in TSEC which the current exploit does not give any access to. For 6.2, hackers used a trick to grab the keys from TSEC which Nintendo patched out in 7.0. Luckily hackers were able to dump the 7.0 keys despite that as evidenced by the hashes being dumped a mere 2 hours after 7.0 was dropped. However if hackers were to implement the way they dumped these keys into CFW, it would just be patched out yet again by Nintendo in a future update, continuing the cat-and-mouse game where hackers would need to find yet another way of dumping the keys from TSEC. One workaround would be the BYOK where users provide the keys externally rather than having the CFW derive the keys but this is highly illegal and not a sound long-term strategy. The other way would be having CFW derive the keys without using the "exploit" they used to dump them in the first place (exploit is in quotes because they did not achieve arbitrary code execution on the TSEC but were able to achieve enough access to dump the keys it was hiding). It has absolutely nothing to do with the CFW "being better" or "ban proof". It only relates to how CFW patches the firmware in order to boot the console; hackers will have to make the CFW get the keys from TSEC without forcing users to bring their own keys or using the exploit they used in the first place to dump the keys. For end-users, very little will change and they will not even notice it. For people closely following the scene, its an interesting look behind the scenes.

Ok, thank you Drax. I could not understand all of it, but I got the idea. Thanks again, also what I've heard is that some people have their Switches donwgraded waiting for a better exploit were you don't need RCM or anything similar, but I wont ask you to explain that, time is too precious for everyone. Cheers and have a good night Drax.

M7L7NK7 · Feb 16, 2019

PyroGoat said:
Also ...... Boo to these threads.

Boo or boo-urns?

Hacking Question How much for the next CFW 7.0? According to your experience?

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