Hardware NIntendo Updated wii and user agreement

paul1991 · Oct 10, 2007

Bob Loblaw · Oct 11, 2007

really no way for them to know you have a drive-chip installed.

Jaems · Oct 11, 2007

So it's safe, I'm assuming? Gotta Wiikey installed.

RAneo · Oct 11, 2007

well... i mean... if microsoft does know...
why u say theres no way for nintendo to know?

Bob Loblaw · Oct 11, 2007

if you are using the current iXtreme firware then Microsoft doesn't know. but also that is firmware mod. not drive-chip.

jaxxster · Oct 11, 2007

agree lol....how the fk are nintendo going to know?

paul1991 · Oct 11, 2007

Code:

Drivechip Detection

There's a very popular myth concerning the current Wii drivechips: many people believe that it's technically impossible for Nintendo to detect them. People who believe this will usually mention reasons like "they don't even modify the Wii or the DVD-Drive-Firmware, so they can't be detected!". The fact that the Wii drivechip makers solicit their products with buzzwords like "Stealth" supports this myth as well. 

But fact is: At the latest when you're running a backup disc, ALL the current Wii drivechips can theoretically be detected. In fact, it would be quite easy for Nintendo to do so. 

All current Wii drivechips work by connecting to an unused serial debug port of the DVD drive controller (that's that DMS/D2A/D2B thingy you've heard of). This debug port can for example be used to read/write the RAM used by the DVD controller, and that's exactly what the current drivechips do: To make backup discs work, these drivechips must modify the DVD controller RAM in some way. Now what makes the drivechips detectable is that the Wii can read/write that RAM too (in fact even gamecube software can do that - just remember how GCOS can read your DVD drive date/version, or how gamecube homebrew discs can be used to update the drivechip firmware), so it can check for any unusual changes in the DVD controller RAM that can only be caused by a drivechip. Maybe the easiest way of doing so would be to check a special memory location that unlocks the DVD controller memory. About the first thing ALL current drivechips need to do to get backups running is to write the value 0x41 to that memory location. Check the source of dvdtool or any open source modchip you like and you'll see that it's true. Periodically checking that special memory location for that special value would be enough for Nintendo to detect all current drivechips. There would be no way of tricking that mechanism in order to get backups running. And so what ? This IS the value the wii firmware MUST read when an original game is inserted, else it won't play. In my opinion, it isn't a way for nintendo to detect a modchip. 

Starting with Wii firmware version 3.0, firmware updates are accompanied with a warning message that the update might "cause inoperability" if the Wii has an "unauthorized technical modification". Chances are this message just appears to warn owners of modded Wiis about the risk of bricking their console when running a different-region game that tries to install a different region firmware update. But with Wii drivechips being out for six months now, the risk that a new firmware update is indeed capable of detecting drivechips is growing and growing; if Nintendo really wants to fight modchips, they should have been able to develop effective strategies by now - the example above shows how easy it would be. And remember, a newly released firmware update that doesn't seem to affect modchips can be deceptive; remember how Microsoft waited for months before they banned owners of modded 360s. 

So if you think about updating the Wii firmware to versions >= 3.0, remember that there always remains a chance that they are not really mod-safe.

READ THAT!
It bothers me that people just assume modchips are not detectable.

Bob Loblaw · Oct 11, 2007

Read the last line of the second paragraph.

"In my opinion, it isn't a way for nintendo to detect a modchip. "

And his opinion is correct because the backup games security sectors have written the same code to the RAM that an original would.

paul1991 · Oct 11, 2007

If you read the real article, you will see that littleadditon was added by another user. Not the authorof the article.

Bob Loblaw · Oct 11, 2007

Hmm..I'm still pretty positive the assumption they can't detect drive-chips that way is is right, though.

Nintendo could make a firmware that the modchip doesn't work on. But then if you have an upgradeable chip the EEPROM/flashed data could always be upgraded to work again, I imagine, with a new firmware.

Da Foxx · Oct 12, 2007

I'm going to take my chances.

spyder2k5 · Oct 12, 2007

QUOTE(paul1991 @ Oct 10 2007 said:

Code:

Drivechip Detection

There's a very popular myth concerning the current Wii drivechips: many people believe that it's technically impossible for Nintendo to detect them. People who believe this will usually mention reasons like "they don't even modify the Wii or the DVD-Drive-Firmware, so they can't be detected!". The fact that the Wii drivechip makers solicit their products with buzzwords like "Stealth" supports this myth as well. 

But fact is: At the latest when you're running a backup disc, ALL the current Wii drivechips can theoretically be detected. In fact, it would be quite easy for Nintendo to do so. 

All current Wii drivechips work by connecting to an unused serial debug port of the DVD drive controller (that's that DMS/D2A/D2B thingy you've heard of). This debug port can for example be used to read/write the RAM used by the DVD controller, and that's exactly what the current drivechips do: To make backup discs work, these drivechips must modify the DVD controller RAM in some way. Now what makes the drivechips detectable is that the Wii can read/write that RAM too (in fact even gamecube software can do that - just remember how GCOS can read your DVD drive date/version, or how gamecube homebrew discs can be used to update the drivechip firmware), so it can check for any unusual changes in the DVD controller RAM that can only be caused by a drivechip. Maybe the easiest way of doing so would be to check a special memory location that unlocks the DVD controller memory. About the first thing ALL current drivechips need to do to get backups running is to write the value 0x41 to that memory location. Check the source of dvdtool or any open source modchip you like and you'll see that it's true. Periodically checking that special memory location for that special value would be enough for Nintendo to detect all current drivechips. There would be no way of tricking that mechanism in order to get backups running. And so what ? This IS the value the wii firmware MUST read when an original game is inserted, else it won't play. In my opinion, it isn't a way for nintendo to detect a modchip. 

Starting with Wii firmware version 3.0, firmware updates are accompanied with a warning message that the update might "cause inoperability" if the Wii has an "unauthorized technical modification". Chances are this message just appears to warn owners of modded Wiis about the risk of bricking their console when running a different-region game that tries to install a different region firmware update. But with Wii drivechips being out for six months now, the risk that a new firmware update is indeed capable of detecting drivechips is growing and growing; if Nintendo really wants to fight modchips, they should have been able to develop effective strategies by now - the example above shows how easy it would be. And remember, a newly released firmware update that doesn't seem to affect modchips can be deceptive; remember how Microsoft waited for months before they banned owners of modded 360s. 

So if you think about updating the Wii firmware to versions >= 3.0, remember that there always remains a chance that they are not really mod-safe.

READ THAT!
It bothers me that people just assume modchips are not detectable.

Another FUDD they cannot be detected stop believe all the bs lies being spread by Nintendo to stop the use of the Drive chips they cannot be fried or detected cuz the fact they do not modify or hold or rewrite thier own or the Wiis firmware

paul1991 · Oct 12, 2007

Wii discs have no real security in and of themselves.
The only thing modchips do is allow the Wii to read the data structure of a normal DVD because the data structure of a real wii game is different.

So, the modchip is modding the RAM in a way that a real disc does not.
Real discs do not need to modify the RAM in that way because their data structure is normal.

Im not saying their detectable, Im just explaining it the way I see it.

directive0 · Oct 12, 2007

"Either disable access to Wii Network Service or disable the playing of games untill the modification is removed".
This is why you install an on/off switch with your chip.

robi · Oct 13, 2007

QUOTE(directive0 @ Oct 12 2007 said:
"Either disable access to Wii Network Service or disable the playing of games untill the modification is removed".
This is why you install an on/off switch with your chip.

exactly, just add a switch on the power line. even if you used a quick solder method it shouldn't be hard to desolder one pad.

Lumstar · Oct 13, 2007

Correct. Retail Wii game discs aren't certified by the DVD Forum (just like GameCube and original Xbox). Notice they lack that familiar DVD-ROM logo anywhere on packaging, discs, or marketing material.

Hardware NIntendo Updated wii and user agreement

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