Gaming [Poll] Do you think hackers deserve to play Pokémon competitively? Why or why not?

What do you think?

  • Yes

    Votes: 200 64.3%
  • No

    Votes: 111 35.7%

  • Total voters
    311
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pokemoner2500

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Ok gonna lay my opinion, yes I'm ready to be shot. I hacked most of my Pokemon in, not gonna lie about it, but i do have one rule against myself. No shinies unless I bred them, SOS chained them, etc. Any non-shiny I will hack with no problem, I will not hack shinies in though.
 

Xiphiidae

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If you can't see what's wrong with that, then that's fine.
It's not that I "can't see what's wrong with it", it's that I don't see anything wrong with it.

It's just a base, gut reaction for me.
And that's fine; I'm not going to tell you how to feel, I just don't want people to tell other people how they should be playing their games. Genning legally doesn't harm anyone, and so to each his own. I hope that one day you'll realise that "I feel X is bad" isn't an argument for telling other people what to do (or what not to do).

Anything illegitimate should have nothing to do with any competitions, unless specifically allowed. That holds true for almost every other game, every other competition besides Pokemon. Maybe because it's been normalized for Pokemon players, especially now that PKhex has been a thing for multiple generations. That shit don't fly with other games though.
That's because there's no comparable equivalent for any other game. Again, I've said that if you gen and you're caught, then you should be punished. But if you gen legally, there's no way that you will be caught, and so it doesn't matter as there's no functional difference between legally genned Pokémon and their legit counterparts.

i do have one rule against myself. No shinies unless I bred them, SOS chained them, etc. Any non-shiny I will hack with no problem, I will not hack shinies in though.
I have a similar rule for myself, as well.
 
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HuskyXD

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Ok gonna lay my opinion, yes I'm ready to be shot. I hacked most of my Pokemon in, not gonna lie about it, but i do have one rule against myself. No shinies unless I bred them, SOS chained them, etc. Any non-shiny I will hack with no problem, I will not hack shinies in though.

If I am in competition vgc that involves money , I rather not take the risk of being suspected and just use non shinies lol.
 

pokemoner2500

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If I am in competition vgc that involves money , I rather not take the risk of being suspected and just use non shinies lol.
I play VGC too, you should see the shit that flies with Nintendo. I save my battle videos and check their Pokemon (which is my main source of my Pokemon) and holy crap Nintendo does like no checks. It's not because I want to be safe, it's because I like the integrity of catching/breeding shinies.
 

ferofax

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That's because there's no comparable equivalent for any other game. Again, I've said that if you gen and you're caught, then you should be punished. But if you gen legally, there's no way that you will be caught, and so it doesn't matter as there's no functional difference.
Ah. A gold nugget. Something I've been preaching since I've realized it - People will do anything and everything if they know they won't get caught. From small innocent things, to conspiracy theories, to the nastiest shit that serial killers do.

Alright. That's it from me. I didn't expect to hear that, but thanks for putting that out there. I rest my case, and will probably no longer respond to this thread. Have a good day, gents. *wink*
 
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RustInPeace

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If you can't see what's wrong with that, then that's fine. It's just a base, gut reaction for me. Anything illegitimate should have nothing to do with any competitions, unless specifically allowed. That holds true for almost every other game, every other competition besides Pokemon. Maybe because it's been normalized for Pokemon players, especially now that PKhex has been a thing for multiple generations. That shit don't fly with other games though.

Who is talking about other games though? It sounds like you lost this argument and just backtracking to something irrelevant. The only thing that kind of bugs me with genned pokemon in battle is the bank ball thing and illegal combos. Well, more like I don't understand what's so appealing about say a Love Ball Chimchar. Superficial in the end. Really those get the attention of officials, I think there was a situation where some big shot US nationals player got knicked because he had a bank ball Aegislash.

As a genner, there's the freedom of not spending that much time making competitive pokemon, at the same time there are known limits that essentially balance the power to where you can't get away with a Sturdy Shedinja. If competitive battle reaches that, where someone sneaks that by (which they can't given the checks and forceful disconnects), then this issue is important to discuss, very serious matter. Really it's just trivial though, if someone wants transparency, fine, I'll admit the pokemon are genned, if I beat the person, he'll cry about that aspect rather than misclicks, bad luck, or poor decisions on his end, or just that I was the better player through strategy (and luck), being able to gen doesn't magically make me a better battler. So since the practice doesn't reach that level, why is this such a debate? It's simple, genned, legit, terms and definitions, yes, but it's still a level playing field when it comes to the actual battle.

Plus genning isn't pleasant when taking on multiple requests in succession. The last 24 hours I've done well over 100 GTS requests, meaning over 100 pokemon genned. A lot of them were Dittos, but still. That deprived me of sleep. It's off topic, sure, but you know, not all a breeze. Also worth noting that the legit user and the genner still have pre-match planning, how they obtain their pokemon has no bearing on that, I know some that take a whole week to build a team just for one match, and then they come to me to gen. The league in question lives on genned pokemon, but in the past, and I think coming up, there will be at least one person trying to go somewhat legit, he asked me today for a 6IV Ditto with Pokerus, but still. And I never seen him complain about the genning vs. legit thing. Sure everyone admits to getting their stuff genned, but still, and he's one of the better players too, so the argument about being better because of genned stuff does not hold much water.

In the end, this is just some circle, going around and around, when I got the notification that this thread was still going on with this debate, I thought "Here we go again." Pokemon shouldn't be some haven for political style battles that just keep happening and happening. They're fucking video games, chill out and just play.
 

Xiphiidae

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Ah. A gold nugget. Something I've been preaching since I've realized it - People will do anything and everything if they know they won't get caught. From small innocent things, to conspiracy theories.

Alright. That's it from me. I didn't expect to hear that, but thanks for putting that out there. I rest my case, and will probably no longer respond to this thread. Have a good day, gents. *wink*
Good job only seeing what you want to see. I made it clear that my point was "you won't get caught because there's no difference between legally genned and legit Pokémon, and hence it does not matter either way". I suppose a better way of saying it would have been "it doesn't matter because they're indistinguishable from legitimate Pokémon, and so you can't get caught".

Your case has not been made by any means, though I suppose you've outed yourself as an intellectually dishonest person who is incapable of partaking in an honest discussion. But if reading it your way makes you feel good about yourself, then go ahead.

When the competition involves cash prizes, it's no longer just a fucking video game. But yeah, everything else is shruggable.
And when genning has no functional differences to breeding and training, it doesn't matter.

They're fucking video games, chill out and just play.
I couldn't agree more.
 
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RustInPeace

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When the competition involves cash prizes, it's no longer just a fucking video game. But yeah, everything else is shruggable.

Ugh, okay if cash prizes are for grabs, there's still the fact the person got it by winning a battle. How to win a battle? Skill, experience, luck, patience, focus. How they made it to that battle is trivial when it comes to Pokemon. Okay, basketball, where the money is crazy large, okay. Professional sports, all that stuff, sure, those are completely different and I hate when those are brought in to the argument, not saying you brought them in, but still. Pokemon is just its own little world, live with it or keep complaining about trivial stuff like genned vs. legit. That's the key word, "trivial."
 

LuxerWap

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This is still up? Lol.

Okay, I'll say this again, I don't mind anyone uses PKHex. Do whatever the hell you want with it. But you can't deny that you're cheating your way into obtaining a competitive Pokémon.

I mean, first, Nintendo bans players from accessing online communications, and now this glitch where player's data's are corrupted for using PKHex and saved as the Pokemon Center. Wow, I know there are folks who'll find a way around it, but so far, this game is getting dangerous for these folks. Who knows when Nintendo or TPCi will strike next?

Plus, I still don't buy the whole, "I don't have time to create a team legitimately. I got work/family problems/important things to take care of." I'll believe it when it see it.
 

RustInPeace

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This is still up? Lol.

Okay, I'll say this again, I don't mind anyone uses PKHex. Do whatever the hell you want with it. But you can't deny that you're cheating your way into obtaining a competitive Pokémon.

I mean, first, Nintendo bans players from accessing online communications, and now this glitch where player's data's are corrupted for using PKHex and saved as the Pokemon Center. Wow, I know there are folks who'll find a way around it, but so far, this game is getting dangerous for these folks. Who knows when Nintendo or TPCi will strike next?

Plus, I still don't buy the whole, "I don't have time to create a team legitimately. I got work/family problems/important things to take care of." I'll believe it when it see it.

The PC bug was fixed in later commits, I saved at a Pokemon Center a few days ago, no issues, so that's really a moot point. As for the time issue, I suppose it depends on the person, but I've seen those who are very busy. The league I gen for, first of all half of them are under 18, so high school and teen drama. The other half, jobs, one is actually a family man, he has a few kids and everything, he gens too so obviously he simply doesn't have time to do it the long way. Also, a good chunk of them participate in multiple leagues, one former member bragged about being in 15 leagues simultaneously. Another really good player is hardly on during the day, even on weekends, I always gen for him really late at night. All day at work, mother, school.

While you don't buy the excuses, I certainly do.
 
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Minox

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I honestly couldn't care less. Pokemon to me does not feel like a competitive game.
 

Xiphiidae

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I honestly couldn't care less. Pokemon to me does not feel like a competitive game.
Well that's because it isn't
It's just stupid RNG chess lol
A bit off-topic, but if you really think that RNG is the determining factor for who wins Pokémon battles, then I don't know what to tell you. RNG may decide the outcome of individual battles, but do you really think that the years that competitive/Showdown players put into battling, team-building and strategy, and the experience they get from that, doesn't make them better players who are more likely to win? I would say that just as important as RNG is knowing how to use it to your advantage, and to prevent your opponent from doing so.

If Pokémon doesn't feel competitive to you, that's fine, I won't tell you how to feel, but there's a reason why Pokémon has such a large multi-faceted competitive scene.
 
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fodder

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A bit off-topic, but if you really think that RNG is the determining factor for who wins Pokémon battles, then I don't know what to tell you. RNG may decide the outcome of individual battles, but do you really think that the years that competitive/Showdown players put into battling, team-building and strategy, and the experience they get from that, doesn't make them better players who are more likely to win? I would say that just as important as RNG is knowing how to use it to your advantage, and to prevent your opponent from doing so.

If Pokémon doesn't feel competitive to you, that's fine, I won't tell you how to feel, but there's a reason why Pokémon has such a large multi-faceted competitive scene.
I'm mostly joking lol
 

RustInPeace

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A bit off-topic, but if you really think that RNG is the determining factor for who wins Pokémon battles, then I don't know what to tell you. RNG may decide the outcome of individual battles, but do you really think that the years that competitive/Showdown players put into battling, team-building and strategy, and the experience they get from that, doesn't make them better players who are more likely to win? I would say that just as important as RNG is knowing how to use it to your advantage, and to prevent your opponent from doing so.

Para-flinching Togekiss is amazing.

Anyways, it's only recently I learned the term "hax" being used as a way for people to complain about their defeat in a battle. It's ridiculous, some just say they lose to "hax" every time, they're "haxed to death." Meh. RNG can be a blessing, after over 1000 soft resets, not only did I get a 5IV Jolly Jirachi, but it turned out to be 6IVs! And that's an event one, so no nature synchronizing really good luck. People rely on RNG, I do too, even as a kid before knowing what it meant, I would be all "Please be a critical hit," and I'm still like that. Another thing about competitive play and what goes into needing time to plan and not enough to breed pokemon legitimately and stuff is calculating. Something else I learned, people use provided calculators to determine how effective a move will be based on the user's nature, and the opponent's, figuring out possible EV spreads in stats, all this is mathematics and memory, that's where it gets insane. So if Pokemon isn't competitive, why would these kind of tools be used? The truth is a lot of people use them, not to mention the existence of Smogon, different metagames, even split by generations, tiers, it's definitely competitive.
 
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Sketchy1

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Well see the thing is, its not exactly cheating per say, because when we gen pokemon, they are within legal limits to be playable online. So technically, its still giving you an equal chance to win because the only difference is, my pokemon were "trained" faster. I can still lose with a genned party because they're still regular ass pokemon
 

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Meh, all I'm seeing from the anti-hackers is the same old "time invested = skill" bullshit.

Can you imagine a purely competitive game like CS:GO or Starcraft will still be taken seriously if the best guns and units are only unlocked after logging in 1000 hours? It's not the hackers' fault that Nintendo/GC in all their incompetence or stubbornness chose to have a competitive scene in the game while also not catering for it.

I'm not even going into the RNG time-sink grinding part, which can be amazingly great like in Diablo 3 to the most unfun shit ever like Pokemon breeding.
 
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