Yes, really. I'm sure that's exactly what happened. You've got an excellent memory for one so young; I'm impressed.
Gamers and the Idea of Entitlement
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Yes, really. I'm sure that's exactly what happened. You've got an excellent memory for one so young; I'm impressed.
I'm betting this has been said already, but I suppose whether or not entitlement is really justified depends on two things; how much the consumer was promised vs. what they actually got, and uneven treatment of the consumer.
For example, I think Bioware earned the backlash they got with Mass Effect 3. They promised the ending was going to be a lot of things, but in the end, the ending was exactly what they promised it wouldn't be, and the fans, obviously, and likely justifiably, we're upset.
On a side note, death threats are never justified
For example, I think Bioware earned the backlash they got with Mass Effect 3. They promised the ending was going to be a lot of things, but in the end, the ending was exactly what they promised it wouldn't be, and the fans, obviously, and likely justifiably, we're upset.
On a side note, death threats are never justified
I was going to do an analogy earlier, but I kind of ran out of time.
What if...people bought bread in the same way as they purchased games?
Step 1: in order to make sure the audience will buy their bread, bakers are forced to spread video's and samples on how they're busy baking bread. Most of this is done over the internet, but there are also conventions that were originally meant for other bakers but under pressure of bread-journalists became more of a hotspot for bread-lovers (more commonly known as 'breaders').
Step 2: said breaders get sucked in by the (mostly journalist-created) hype of the new type of bread (e.g. wholemeal bread 2.0) and hope it will be even better than the previous installment of the 'wholemeal bread'-series (because two types are a complete franchise).
Step 3: near release day, breaders get restless and kind of hungry for wholemeal bread 2.0. Some complain that since the bread is baked ('gold'), it should already be for sale. And thanks to the internet, people from around the world complain that this bread won't be made in their region yet and that they'll have to force themselves not to read reviews or youtube-videos about it in order to maintain the surprise.
Step 4: on release day, breaders are the first in line to buy wholemeal bread 2.0. They pay full price and often take a day of vacation just to be able to eat wholemeal bread 2.0. That's usually when the first cracks of reality come back into their minds: the bread isn't as perfect as they'd hoped.
Step 5: since tastes are individual, there will always be different opinions. People who went with white bread 4.0 will laugh and wholemeat bread 2.0-breaders. At best saying that "I just don't like it". This often revokes furious threads about calories, tastes and the amount of slices each bread contains. Depending on the age of the breader, this either goes into namecalling or some kind of passive-agressive stance. They often know their bakers by name and leave no chance unsaid to suggest that wholebread 2.0 is the far better bread over white bread 4.0.
Step 6: despite the suggestions to others that wholebread 2.0 is the best thing since sliced bread, even those breaders have to admit it has its flaws. The taste-to-calorie ratio isn't as balanced as they'd hoped. Or it isn't long and satisfying enough. It's common that breaders feel kinda sad for buying the bread. They say the hype wasn't worth it and that the shareware slice they got didn't quite reflect the entire bread. Some admit that the bread just doesn't mix with their filling. Others take agressive stances on the warning labels that prohibit hackers like that J. Christ guy from making illegal copies of the bread, using shouts like "it's MY bread. I've paid good money for it and therefore I do what I want with it!". Some aspirant-reviewers go at full length in youtube videos pointing pretty much every detail of every ingrediënt in the bread with a suggestion that they're far better bakers than the bakers themselves (in fact, they often claim some bakers should be fired for changing the recipe of their favorite bread TOO MUCH).
Step 7: breaders can also get pissed off when they aren't properly refunded their money when they return the crumbs to get their money back. They don't see it as their fault that previews, reviews, articles in magazines, videos, user reviews, conventions and interviews don't give the right impression on the bread. They're also pissed they bought it at full price when the baker three streets away sells it cheaper...and that THEIR baker refuses to lower the price.
Once the breader gets older and wiser, he is no longer as much interested in the hype. They aren't the first in line at the bakery's anymore. On the contrary: they know that in order to promote wholemeal bread 2.0, wholemeal bread 1.0 is at a discount or sold in larger varieties. And of course with all the ingredient tweaks and proper bag that the bakers have perfected during the time wholemeal bread was the ONLY way to go.
Step 8: it is starting to dawn to most breaders that the first day release breads aren't all that great anymore. They feel as if the bread is rushed out of the oven and wasn't ready for release yet (though complaints are HUGE when a bread is delayed after a "promised" launch day). Worse: with increased knowledge of other bakers, shopping around tends to get all sorts of great breads at a very good price. Take humble bundle bread, for instance: you get five types of bread for any price you want to pay for it. That's a good deal. While it won't (directly) put off buying the newer kinds of bread, it makes sure that breaders have quite a stock of breads they have yet to come around to actually eating...
Step 9: the fact that the average breader nowadays have a wide variety of bread to choose from (not just from the bakers, but also from their own storage room) changes the perception of things. They aren't FORCED to buy those breads they love so much anymore. Bakers have to convince THEM if the bread is good enough. And everyone knows it. To a degree, breaders know that bakers just want to make an earning but it doesn't occur to them that baking bread is mostly just a job for them. They like bread as much as breaders (except for EA executives who probably never ate a bread in their entire lives...which would be the only explanation as to why they're forcing their customers to eat their bread in the bakery), but they are somewhat forced into hyping their breads in order to sell enough to break even from all the marketing and advanced ingredient refining they have to do to live up to nowadays's standards of bread. So today, it's pretty common to see a breader in a bakery sniffing every bread and asking things like extra slices because they had to wait in line. And bakers pretty much have to do it, or those customers will just walk away and pick up a bread from a bargain bin...
So...there you have it. I know it's kind of absurd and could probably have some more consoles in the story ("this bread can ONLY be eaten on nintendo's plates...something a lot of breaders complain about"), but it should give some nice view of the situation. Gamers think they're entitled to their expected standards because they're in a good position to do so.
What if...people bought bread in the same way as they purchased games?
Step 1: in order to make sure the audience will buy their bread, bakers are forced to spread video's and samples on how they're busy baking bread. Most of this is done over the internet, but there are also conventions that were originally meant for other bakers but under pressure of bread-journalists became more of a hotspot for bread-lovers (more commonly known as 'breaders').
Step 2: said breaders get sucked in by the (mostly journalist-created) hype of the new type of bread (e.g. wholemeal bread 2.0) and hope it will be even better than the previous installment of the 'wholemeal bread'-series (because two types are a complete franchise).
Step 3: near release day, breaders get restless and kind of hungry for wholemeal bread 2.0. Some complain that since the bread is baked ('gold'), it should already be for sale. And thanks to the internet, people from around the world complain that this bread won't be made in their region yet and that they'll have to force themselves not to read reviews or youtube-videos about it in order to maintain the surprise.
Step 4: on release day, breaders are the first in line to buy wholemeal bread 2.0. They pay full price and often take a day of vacation just to be able to eat wholemeal bread 2.0. That's usually when the first cracks of reality come back into their minds: the bread isn't as perfect as they'd hoped.
Step 5: since tastes are individual, there will always be different opinions. People who went with white bread 4.0 will laugh and wholemeat bread 2.0-breaders. At best saying that "I just don't like it". This often revokes furious threads about calories, tastes and the amount of slices each bread contains. Depending on the age of the breader, this either goes into namecalling or some kind of passive-agressive stance. They often know their bakers by name and leave no chance unsaid to suggest that wholebread 2.0 is the far better bread over white bread 4.0.
Step 6: despite the suggestions to others that wholebread 2.0 is the best thing since sliced bread, even those breaders have to admit it has its flaws. The taste-to-calorie ratio isn't as balanced as they'd hoped. Or it isn't long and satisfying enough. It's common that breaders feel kinda sad for buying the bread. They say the hype wasn't worth it and that the shareware slice they got didn't quite reflect the entire bread. Some admit that the bread just doesn't mix with their filling. Others take agressive stances on the warning labels that prohibit hackers like that J. Christ guy from making illegal copies of the bread, using shouts like "it's MY bread. I've paid good money for it and therefore I do what I want with it!". Some aspirant-reviewers go at full length in youtube videos pointing pretty much every detail of every ingrediënt in the bread with a suggestion that they're far better bakers than the bakers themselves (in fact, they often claim some bakers should be fired for changing the recipe of their favorite bread TOO MUCH).
Step 7: breaders can also get pissed off when they aren't properly refunded their money when they return the crumbs to get their money back. They don't see it as their fault that previews, reviews, articles in magazines, videos, user reviews, conventions and interviews don't give the right impression on the bread. They're also pissed they bought it at full price when the baker three streets away sells it cheaper...and that THEIR baker refuses to lower the price.
Once the breader gets older and wiser, he is no longer as much interested in the hype. They aren't the first in line at the bakery's anymore. On the contrary: they know that in order to promote wholemeal bread 2.0, wholemeal bread 1.0 is at a discount or sold in larger varieties. And of course with all the ingredient tweaks and proper bag that the bakers have perfected during the time wholemeal bread was the ONLY way to go.
Step 8: it is starting to dawn to most breaders that the first day release breads aren't all that great anymore. They feel as if the bread is rushed out of the oven and wasn't ready for release yet (though complaints are HUGE when a bread is delayed after a "promised" launch day). Worse: with increased knowledge of other bakers, shopping around tends to get all sorts of great breads at a very good price. Take humble bundle bread, for instance: you get five types of bread for any price you want to pay for it. That's a good deal. While it won't (directly) put off buying the newer kinds of bread, it makes sure that breaders have quite a stock of breads they have yet to come around to actually eating...
Step 9: the fact that the average breader nowadays have a wide variety of bread to choose from (not just from the bakers, but also from their own storage room) changes the perception of things. They aren't FORCED to buy those breads they love so much anymore. Bakers have to convince THEM if the bread is good enough. And everyone knows it. To a degree, breaders know that bakers just want to make an earning but it doesn't occur to them that baking bread is mostly just a job for them. They like bread as much as breaders (except for EA executives who probably never ate a bread in their entire lives...which would be the only explanation as to why they're forcing their customers to eat their bread in the bakery), but they are somewhat forced into hyping their breads in order to sell enough to break even from all the marketing and advanced ingredient refining they have to do to live up to nowadays's standards of bread. So today, it's pretty common to see a breader in a bakery sniffing every bread and asking things like extra slices because they had to wait in line. And bakers pretty much have to do it, or those customers will just walk away and pick up a bread from a bargain bin...
So...there you have it. I know it's kind of absurd and could probably have some more consoles in the story ("this bread can ONLY be eaten on nintendo's plates...something a lot of breaders complain about"), but it should give some nice view of the situation. Gamers think they're entitled to their expected standards because they're in a good position to do so.
That respect is completely mutual, kind sir. While I don't always agree on your ideas, they are always well-written, properly explained and (especially) thought-provoking. I like it when I'm forced to think about my own stance on things.You sir are always providing great feedback and I love reading what you have to say in response. Thank you for continually coming back.
*snip*
That respect is completely mutual, kind sir. While I don't always agree on your ideas, they are always well-written, properly explained and (especially) thought-provoking. I like it when I'm forced to think about my own stance on things.
And people wonder how I can continue to write so much. The answer is community output.
It's why I enjoy the process so much, because sometimes people will completely flatten me and it makes me realize that I lived a fucking sheltered gaming life! I definitely like to think about issues and pull them out of the box for a bit to get people to think twice about what they've taken for granted, and it never ceases to amaze me how much I can discuss on one particular issue. Often in my editing process I have to cut things out and trim things so I don't sound too much for or against something. I definitely value the feedback because it give me a chance to broaden my horizons on popular issues and maybe why I should think of things from other angles. And hey, there is absolutely nothing wrong with an opinion. It definitely isn't my place to turn around and snub someone for saying something.Your bread story though... I should frame that somewhere and read it if I ever need a smile on my face. That was great!
EDIT: OH! If you ever have any ideas or topics that you would like me to go into, you're more than welcome to send them my way! I'm always looking for things to talk about!
I attribute a lot of the toxic attitude towards entitlement but also in a world where there are lots of free to play games that thrive off micro transactions, there needs to be a level of accountability from the developers and more open communication between the fans and the PR department. If you look at how Star Citizen is doing it, there is almost no griefing on their forums because the outlook for the game is positive and well, Chris Roberts has a reputation to uphold.
I have played for almost a year now, MechWarrior Online and the entitlement from the players, myself included is amazingly bad. Granted the game has been withheld of any major content skjnce the game went into open beta and it took 5 months after the game went officially live for it to get the new interface which is still horribly incomplete. Yet us player pas money for the premium content. I think I have dropped about 250 into the game and it's only recently started getting better, but it still has problems. But yeah, when you use your wallet and the forums to voice your displeasure, the entitlement is deserved if the developers are doing a crap job.
I have played for almost a year now, MechWarrior Online and the entitlement from the players, myself included is amazingly bad. Granted the game has been withheld of any major content skjnce the game went into open beta and it took 5 months after the game went officially live for it to get the new interface which is still horribly incomplete. Yet us player pas money for the premium content. I think I have dropped about 250 into the game and it's only recently started getting better, but it still has problems. But yeah, when you use your wallet and the forums to voice your displeasure, the entitlement is deserved if the developers are doing a crap job.
I don't connect to the internet with my 3DS all the time, so what ever system update or policy change happens, I'll be sure to look that through before flipping the wifi switch
. If I was really paranoid I'd get another 3DS purely to leave all games released till now on there, complete non-internet ready.That's one other thing I can't really blame gamers for complaining about: the different pricing's per country. I hear nothing but bad things from Brazil
I thin that entitlement could be justified in some cases, but some of their complaints baffle me.
For example, I recall a couple of cases with people complaining about Steam keys.These people already own the game in question. Is getting it on the same system, just with another distributor that important? It's not like there are many benefits, since you're still playing the same game. The only additions are that you get achievements on Steam instead of Desura or whatever, and can see other friends on Steam who have that game, but they're trivial.
For example, I recall a couple of cases with people complaining about Steam keys.These people already own the game in question. Is getting it on the same system, just with another distributor that important? It's not like there are many benefits, since you're still playing the same game. The only additions are that you get achievements on Steam instead of Desura or whatever, and can see other friends on Steam who have that game, but they're trivial.
That's not it, they all, or nearly all, changed their agreements to be able to revoke your rights at will unilaterally, your acceptance doesn't come into it anymore. As soon as they do it for whatever reason, you're already pirating it, even if morally it's not your fault.I don't connect to the internet with my 3DS all the time, so what ever system update or policy change happens, I'll be sure to look that through before flipping the wifi switch
I don't think anyone used it that way yet, but they can, so you don't own anything.
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Well... I suppose I feel two different ways about this issue.
As much as I still loathe the ending to Mass Effect 3, the developers certainly weren't required to push out a new (still shitty) ending DLC. There's a reason why people say to turn off the game when Anderson died - because up until that point, the game had all the polish of the previous games. We were sold a complete game and thus had no reason to demand our money back/riot/etc. (Also, it is taking every ounce of retraint not to go into yet another rant about that ending. Grr.)
However, it's becoming a bit of an industry standard to rush out games unfinished, with day-one DLC, story-relevant DLC, and still expect $60 for them. All games have bugs, and DLC that extends the experience are fine, but damn. I don't pay for a book in order to get some half-edited thing with several important chapters available for paid downlaod, so it'd be nice to have video game companies offer the same kind of respect.
As much as I still loathe the ending to Mass Effect 3, the developers certainly weren't required to push out a new (still shitty) ending DLC. There's a reason why people say to turn off the game when Anderson died - because up until that point, the game had all the polish of the previous games. We were sold a complete game and thus had no reason to demand our money back/riot/etc. (Also, it is taking every ounce of retraint not to go into yet another rant about that ending. Grr.)
However, it's becoming a bit of an industry standard to rush out games unfinished, with day-one DLC, story-relevant DLC, and still expect $60 for them. All games have bugs, and DLC that extends the experience are fine, but damn. I don't pay for a book in order to get some half-edited thing with several important chapters available for paid downlaod, so it'd be nice to have video game companies offer the same kind of respect.
On a case by case basis, the want of more should be seriously considered. Now, I was one of those guys who subscribed to the indoctrination theory on Mass Effect. The extended cut answered a lot of questions, and I can agree with that ending. But, what we were promised and what we got were incredibly different. You can say that ME3 would never have a satisfactory outcome to all the player's choices. I say there's something called effort, and at least trying. Bioware simply ran out of time, and EA jumped the gun to get it out.
On that front, it's up to the fans to give a company backlash and by extension, results. Backlash does not entail death threats and bodily harm. Boycotts and "e-rioting" are very effective methods to use.
The examples you gave with the Pokebank are cringe worthy and should never happen.
What Taleweaver pointed out with rising costs is moot. There are plenty of games out there that are successful with a fraction of the costs. It's possible to do more with less, and the sooner games companies figure that out, the better.
On the subject of DLC, look at Fallout: New Vegas for a minute. The DLC didn't have anything to do with the story, just a wider view to expand the world around you. The connections are there in the main game. People loved the hints that were dropped, and how the DLC tied everything together. That is how you do DLC.
On that front, it's up to the fans to give a company backlash and by extension, results. Backlash does not entail death threats and bodily harm. Boycotts and "e-rioting" are very effective methods to use.
The examples you gave with the Pokebank are cringe worthy and should never happen.
What Taleweaver pointed out with rising costs is moot. There are plenty of games out there that are successful with a fraction of the costs. It's possible to do more with less, and the sooner games companies figure that out, the better.
On the subject of DLC, look at Fallout: New Vegas for a minute. The DLC didn't have anything to do with the story, just a wider view to expand the world around you. The connections are there in the main game. People loved the hints that were dropped, and how the DLC tied everything together. That is how you do DLC.
I have to say the DLC stuff is a croc. When i buy a game, it should be the whole game not just a piece of one. This kinda like buying candles and then the candle seller will say, "You'll want to buy the wicks for those."
I hate it too. It's getting to the point where I don't even want to play those games because of the massive amount of money I most likely have to shell out for the DLC. Talking to you Borderlands 2!
I actually have an article idea planned next with the changes in the gaming industry over the past several years. I miss back in the day when you could just buy a cartridge or disk and not have to worry about excess content being locked behind walls. Very interesting points though with the arcade analogy and comparing to people who want the old days back though.
Please get that out soon! I would love to read it Ryu.
It's either that or I roll out my article on digital rights management.
Either way the well isn't dried out yet. EDIT: Topic has been unstuck. Thank you everyone for the lovely discussion thus far, and keep it going!
Wait a minute, why do you keep mentioning such a nazi, anti-consumer policy change? No consumer product company is going to shoot itself in the foot by pulling such a drastic change. Ebay and Paypal can change policies however they want due to the massive amount of cash changing hands between members. If I am recalling this correctly, there must be some kind of guideline or law where current policies/agreements do not affect the ones at the time of purchase.
One somewhat related example is Marvel Versus Capcom 3, it was said that Capcom could not renew the Marvel license, and had to remove the games from sale by a certain date, or else it becomes a violation of agreements. Once the games were removed from everywhere, did Capcom say to everyone who purchased it previously to turn their games in or else they are pirating thieving scum? No. They bought the game before the Marvel license died, they are free to do with it whatsoever the agreements in place at the time stated, except try to brandish it as their own product to cash in on the Marvel name.
I bought Phoenix Wright DD 2013. I have the receipt, the transaction number, and any policy change that comes up in the future damn well shouldn't affect my game, due to having bought the game without such draconian policies in place. No matter how you try to spin it, ownership of 3DS games are absolute unless someone deletes their game or NNID. Due to the nature of NNID's warnings, I am pretty damn sure Nintendo can't do that remotely, despite them having access to those records.
Y-you really showed him!
BioWare promised you nothing. They promised a game. You got a game. And for a majority of the game it was enjoyable. People trying to sue or have any sort of basis of entitlement for the ending is ridiculous.
The thing with the ME3 ending is that, like I said before, it's someone's child. They felt this is how they wanted to end it. It's their artistic work and they could do whatever they want. They could have Shepard jump on a reaper and crash it into the moon for all they care. Poorly received or well received, the game delivered a game and that's the promise you got.
No one sued Gearbox over Aliens: Colonial Marines, and we remember what a shitfest that was. Like that's a game that people were actually duped for, the trailers were no indication of the final product. Still, not as much drama as ME3 was.
Because it's what it says.
So, if you think publishers are going in a consumer friendly way, that's your opinion, but it'll happen to someone at some point. The iStore doesn't let you download things you own that aren't active allready, and noone thought it would get to that either.
Unless they rewrite the agreement, which the courts have already accepted as legal. I doubt that would fly in the EU, however.
No matter how you try to spin it, you don't own it. Note that you couldn't even move the content in case your 3DS goes kaput, although, thankfully it isn't a 360.
Mmhmm, they promised only the most epic endings to our favorite series. If there was one thing they owed us, it was closure, and that's not something they delivered until the extended cut. Even then, the game was rushed and a lot of story simply cut or skipped. ME3 was a 9/10 game before the last 15 minutes, and a 6/10 afterwards. Not even close to being the end that Mass Effect deserved.
http://alizrak.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-broken-promises-of-mass-effect-3-spoilers/
Except people did sue Gearbox and Sega over that Alien abomination. Get your facts straight. Hell, it was even all over the USN!
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=334296
The problem I have there is that the game is built around choices you make and the effect you have on the universe, but then it's boiled down to basically a single ending rendering all of your choices moot. You could say the choices made by the player make it their baby as they put something of themselves into it as well. I would imagine that if Mass Effect had a linear story, you wouldn't have the same outrage over the ending as it would have been tailored to the story as they shaped it. But as it stands, my understanding is that the sum of all of your choices is condensed down into a background color.
Actually... http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...class-action-lawsuit-targets-sega-and-gearbox
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