Gamers and the Idea of Entitlement

Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by Ryukouki, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Lestworth

    Lestworth GBAtemp Regular

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    It's really hard to justify the "complaining" or "Entitlement" in the gaming community these days. The industry has gotten bigger, and the technology has become better. Lets take Capcom, really thats all i need to type ... Capcom. Companies that use those practices deserve to be bitched at and complained at.

    Yeah sure, those that went ape all over the Mass Effect 3 ending was a bit insane. I still think the revised ending (aka extended ending) was more fulfilling, and im glad they added more meat to the ending while still making you think. The original ending wasn't horrible, however the revised ending was more meaningful.

    I just think the word Entitlement is a nasty word to use. Do gamers bitch and complain when something is viewed as bad in a minority? sure, and does that minority feel like a majority because of the amount of complaining they can produce? Yeah. Does this mean they are entitled ass hats that want attention? Not really. Some of them might actually think that, while others just piggy back off it and blow it up. Its the Internet, and people can communicate with each other in a much bigger and faster way then what others use to be able to do. We rate games these days, and some people actually trust those ratings rather then word of mouth.
     
  2. Ryukouki
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    Ryukouki See you later, guys.

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    Being a media reviewer and all, don't even get me started with the inadequacies of the reviewing system found on gaming discussion sites. :mellow: There are so many things wrong with the system that it's just inherently flawed at this point and filled with passionless drivel where the score does not match the inflection or passion.
     
  3. Psionic Roshambo

    Psionic Roshambo GBAtemp Addict

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    Personally I think some criticism is healthy in any industry, movies, music, books, games.... The death threats are from a very psychologically challenged minority in the "gamer community" yeah that's not healthy criticism and is bad for the industry and should be dealt with as Hollywood has when it had the same problem. (Actual laws had to be enacted to protect people from being killed by random nut jobs.)

    On another note, I think it is wrong to take a very small % of a group and use that small % as a label for the entire group.

    Using that stick I would say all developers suck balls because Barbie Dream house Party.....

    Obviously this isn't true at all we have many many awesome developers on this earth and they deliver many great games!

     
  4. grossaffe

    grossaffe GBAtemp Psycho!

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    I have never played the Mass Effect series, but my understanding of the uproar over ME3 was that the series was based on choices, and the ending essentially threw all of your choices away and only changed the color of the sky or something based on all the choices you could have made.
    Chrono Trigger managed to have a dozen endings or so with a single game around twenty years ago, why couldn't ME manage endings that take into account the choices you made throughout the series?

    On another note, I feel like game makers should feel a semblance of duty to the fans that made their series successful. I was really disappointed when they came out with Splinter Cell: Conviction, which eschewed the concept of stealth and turned it into an action game with a win button. And then they followed that up with Blacklist where they ditched the iconic voice of Sam Fisher, Michael Ironside, with some young guy. All the way back in the third game, they were poking fun at Sam's age, and the training of possible replacements. At the age of 50, he's voice by a 57 year old, but when Sam's at the age of 57, he's voiced by a, what, 34 year old? Sorry Ubisoft, but you've alienated this fan who was there from the start.

    Of course there's the issue of incomplete games with on disk/day 1 DLC, games that last only three hours, broken/buggy games.
     
  5. Apex

    Apex GBAtemp Fan

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    Just gonna throw this out there:

    On the second point, when people complain about regional differences in content, they neglect the fact that it's a two way street.
    So you don't get certain monsters in Puzzles and Dragons? Japan doesn't get Xbox One at all.

    As far as the Tales of comment goes: It's not a tremendously popular series in America. It takes time and money to localize a game, if there is the threat of there not being a market for it at all, then it's a risk I could understand them not wanting to take. Look at Nintendo, when you pour all of your money and time into something (the Wii U.) and it doesn't do well, it's a colossal blow financially. Therefore people actually showing interest by putting stuff like that in their signatures on Gamefaqs and making silly internet petitions, are a more proactive way of trying to show that there is interest, and it likely wont flop.

    If you're really that concerned with Japanese exclusive content, just learn Japanese. It isn't that hard.

    By the way, Ryukouki, this article is a lot better than the other one! Good work! :D
     
  6. Ryukouki
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    Ryukouki See you later, guys.

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    Hehe, I spent a lot of time on this one and I wanted to make it right. Thanks a ton for the compliment and feedback! I always strive to deliver experiences that make people think twice about a common issue. :sad: And haha, fair point with Japan and the XBOX One. ;P
     
  7. porkiewpyne

    porkiewpyne Report-er

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    I've got too many Tamadras then I know what to do with really. Got most that really mattered already. Then again, I did get gungtrolled quite a few times so....

    I do understand that none of the NA players want to be sidelined too much but they way they whined and bitched really pissed me off. :\
     
  8. Black-Ice

    Black-Ice Founder of the Church of Renamon

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    In terms of games, I'm entitled to my opinion and that's just about it.
     
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  9. luisedgarf

    luisedgarf Member

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    Except not everyone lives in a country or place when learning Japanese is possible.
     
  10. Apex

    Apex GBAtemp Fan

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    You obviously have access to the internet, there are tons of resources available online. I didn't learn Japanese in Japan, I learned it in America before I moved here. It's possible, if you really want it.
     
  11. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Personally, I think the entire entitlement thing from gamers is getting out of hand because of three things:

    1. the ever increasing cost to make a game vs the price they're currently sold
    2. expected standards of gaming (and electronics in general) that are getting higher with each generation
    3. the name "gamer" refers to someone who indentifies him-/herself as playing games


    Lemme go into more detail on those...
    Inflation means that pretty much everything tends to become more expensive over time. Think of 10 years ago (or ask your parent if you're young) how much an apple, a bus ticket, coke cola, mars or a loaf of bread was worth back then. It was way cheaper then, yet the quality was exactly the same. Nobody complains about it, though. It's just the way things are (you can always choose NOT to buy these things). Electronics do NOT follow these standards. Rather the opposite. Moore's law indicates that processing power doubles every 18 months, and for some years, it has passed the point where extra processing power was absolutely needed for daily work routines. The result is that the not-so-state-of-the-art machines become more attractive because they are cheaper. And not only that: ease-of-use, long term quality, amount of electricity used...all those factors are starting to calculate more into what makes something quality. And that, in turn, changes perception of what to expect from a modern pc. It not only has to be fast, but quiet, all-round, have a good graphics card, and so on.
    Games follow that same trend...or perhaps it's more correct to say that they're leading the trend. In any case: games have grown as well. Not only to keep up with Moore's law that sort of pushes all developers into making use of awesome graphics (if they don't do it, another developer will), but on other standards that we have come to expect over the years. RPG-elements, cutscènes, multiplayer, a story*. This puts developers in a very uneasy spot. On one hand, it takes much more money to provide all the things gamers have come to expect over the years while on the other hand the price they're willing to pay is lower than ever. And that last one is pretty hard. Piracy and free games always had an influence, but I doubt it was ever as big as it is today. Back in the old days, it was pretty common to just go out to the store, buy a 70 bucks game** based on its cover only to find out it sucked. But you played it nonetheless because you payed money for it and second-hand sales weren't as common or easy as nowadays. The end result: you hated it less (or even liked it) BECAUSE you spend all that money on it.
    Finally...there is this thing called "gamer". We identify ourselves as "playing games" and take them seriously. Way more seriously than we should be. When we go to a restaurant that isn't as good as we hoped, we simply go elsewhere. But when we spend roughly the same amount of money on a video game, that is PERSONAL. It HURTS. Even more that we are somehow to blame, as with all the previews, reviews, demo's, shareware, youtube-vids and so on, we should have KNOWN BETTER. And because we are gamers, that hurts on a deep personal level. And that means we get emotional about it and do things that get...pretty irrational. Instead of just "not buying" the game anymore, we tell the entire internet how bad it is, tell our EXPERT VIEWS (tm) about what is wrong with it and by God, we do it as if we're the director-CEO-vice-president of the company (and the universe) themselves. I admit that these sorts of rantings are also somewhat caused by the anonymity of the internet***, but still...
    I'm into S&M. And while that by itself has nothing to do with gaming, I see that same sort of identifying in my community. Believe me: if you have your opinion on how another S&M guy or girl does things, you WILL get a lot of negative feedback. The thing curious people bump into the most is not so much how we aren't the scary weirdo's popular media make us out to be, but the amount of political correctness you need in order to talk to people. Because it is IMPORTANT. Something silly as how to address or what I might or might not like and in what context...the average S&M guy/girl can talk for hours on how (s)he is not what someone else thought (s)he was. Much in the same way a gamer can spend many hours telling how bad some games are (the Spoony experiment, anyone?).

    But I digress...the entitlement thing. Lots of gamers seem to have this worry or primal fear that the games they have come to love (or are downright addicted to it) will come to a halt. They fear that the policies companies start to practice in order to keep their books in the green will ruin the fun they have in gaming. And to a degree, that might be true. Games are changing. They follow trends, but the main factor is and will always be that they need to make a profit. Companies that can't afford to keep their programmers, artists, musicians, writers, ... working will stop doing so in the end. Or change their business plan that will make them a profit. They know that no matter what they do, some people won't like it. That's normal. You can't have a million-people audience and please them all. You simply can't. Companies can't simply cater to the one who wants the same game over and over again. I mean...nintendo is trying exactly that and not doing so good with it. :unsure:





    *of course some genres always had a story-focus. But nowadays even genres that never revolved around it (FPS'es are a prime example) suddenly need voice acting and cutscènes or they'll be seen as "less quality"
    **this is adjusted for inflation. The real price was actually somewhat around 40 bucks.
    ***compare Angry Joe's first rants on the xbone with his face-to-face interview with Major Nelson. It's not as easy being that mad about it when faced when the person doesn't look as evil and cunning as they are in your mind's eye
     
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  12. jagerstaffel

    jagerstaffel GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    There is a serious increase in entitlement these days than there were before the whole facebook-iphone craze. The kind of entitlement I hate most of all is the kind where these ridiculous gamers think they deserve free things if something gets delayed. The biggest offense I've seen recently was when Pokebank was delayed, and the GameFAQs message boards were swamped with these cretins demanding Nintendo give them free games just because an upcoming serviced faced unforeseen circumstances. 90% of GameFAQs is like this.

    There was one guy there who had the gall to call Nintendo demanding why North America does not have Super Mario Bros 3 on the NA eshop yet (he took down the video, but it's the internet, and I have it:evil: ). He had a valid question, but..... he called the god damn wrong person (customer service), and he kept saying "it's ridiculous!" and "I don't understand! Waah!". TBD you freak. If you wanted it that bad, send a letter to Nintendo, don't call the poor guy manning the telephones who is very much more informed about 3DS device problems than why a game has not been released yet.

    I swear it's sickening these days. There are gamers boycotting a game just because it doesn't get a physical release. Don't they realize it's because of jerkweeds like them that releasing physical copies is a risk that can't be taken by small companies in this changing world? (One Piece Romance Dawn is said to have 160k (or 16k) physical copies in NA alone, and that's a rather large company). Look at that MGS Ground Zeros fiasco. At Gamespot comment after comment lamenting the $40 current gen physical cost of a 2 hour game, when there's a $20 digital last gen / $30 digital current gen version. We had to pay $30 for lesser games during the PS1 days. Show some respect, freaks.

    /rant
     
  13. luisedgarf

    luisedgarf Member

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    Try to learn Japanese WITHOUT the internet or when the only resources are in English. Per example, learning Japanese in Israel or the Middle East is a big pain for them because of that.

    Not everyone lives in America, dude.
     
  14. Frozen_Fish

    Frozen_Fish GBAtemp Regular

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    I think it's absolutely disgusting how anti-consumer a lot of gamers are, the fact that "gamer entitlement" even exists as a concept really shows they just think of games as children's toys and not products with corresponding consumer rights.

    "A big portion of our userbase is complaining about the quality of our latest game!"
    "What!? There can't be something genuinely wrong with it, they must just be entitled."
    And then the video game "journalists" like kotaku jump to their defence because angering gamers = more clicks = more ad revenue and everything keeps snowballing.
     
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  15. FireGrey

    FireGrey Undercover Admin

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    A bit off topic, but for me and my best friend, we had the same console and cartridges for several years (we both skipped a generation) and we would spend hours looking for content "locked behind walls" (God damn Stop n' Swap).
     
  16. Apex

    Apex GBAtemp Fan

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    I've met people from middle eastern countries that speak Japanese better than I do.

    Knowledge is free, and it exists. A majority of countries teach English in public and private schools, so most people will be able to use the fundamentals of english to learn another language if they wanted to.

    I don't want to sound rude, but just like anything in life worth doing... If you want to do it, don't come up with reasons why you can't. Just do it.
     
  17. Nightwish

    Nightwish GBAtemp Fan

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    That actually makes sense, since otherwise they aren't buying it, they're renting it at terms that can be revised at any time.
     
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  18. Qtis

    Qtis Grey Knight Inquisitor

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    I call it the iPhone effect. The perceived value of a product type (i.e. games) diminishes once you have to pay only a few $ or even less. Sometimes even completely free.

    The idea of entitlement is an interesting topic. Usually when I buy a product, I expect it to work. Now that I work more and more with the software industry due to my work and Master's Thesis, I can see a problem many people seem to completely miss or misunderstand. A working product is completely different to a product with add-ons. When I buy a physical product like a console, I can easily understand I need to pay for extras such as a controller. The software side is a completely different matter. I expect updates for a broken product, but I don't really expect all future stuff to be free. The "all-for-me-now" ideology affects a lot of people in this way. If something is wrong, people will complain more and more.

    I'm interested in seeing what will happen to all the people who complain about such things as WiiU third party support while at the same time they don't buy the games for the console. The reasons vary from "I play it on the PS3/360 with my friends" to "it costs more so I won't buy it" and "it's inferior because of reason X". There is no easy cure for entitlement in this sense, but I guess growing older gives you a more broad opinion. That's what I think may have happened to me (also, so little time to play compared to before..).
     
  19. Clydefrosch

    Clydefrosch GBAtemp Guru

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    Theres usually good reason for people to complain. If I pay full price for half a game (without being told that on the box), thats a rip off. How much money does it cost to unlock all models in that need for speed game? I believe it goes into the thousands. Or to unlock all the things that were already on disk in SFxTekken? No sirs, thats a reason to complain and lose friendship points with your userbase.
    If what should be a simple two step process of scaning pokemon white and moving everything over to the bank, is turned into a complex 8 step process that has to be repeated several times over, all with constant exchange of the game, starting and restarting of two different apps, loading times over and over, logging in to nintendo network over and over, I feel its justified to complain, simply because theres no way they made it this complicated by accident.
    Now, an ending fans dont agree with, no idea how much of a problem that is honestly, unless it just made no sense at all. I dont know mass effect, but if, after 3 long storyful games, the ending is something dumb like 'God stepped in and saved the universe' or 'everything up till now was an elaborate plan set up by some mastermind to save the universe' (think the second Panem movie/book. the plan was to save katniss, but mr mastermind gamemaster added so many uncontrollable factors, it doesnt even make sense she survived).

    It may be that gamers got somewhat spoiled by a decade or so of innovative and really good gamemaking, that seemed to put the games and users in the center of their decisions, who are now angry when 99% of anything that happens is decided on economic factors and forecasting of supposed experts.
    honestly, i deeply believe we're missing out on a million incredible games and ideas, just because most of them wouldn't be suited for a large enough crowd according to 'experts'
     
  20. jagerstaffel

    jagerstaffel GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Some also call it the Steam effect. There are thousands of people out there who don't get a game until it goes on sale on Steam. This issue has been brought up not too long ago by a game developer.

    Here's where it get's ridiculous: one of the main reasons why people hate digital only releases is because they can't buy it second hand for cheap. Trust me, those kind of people are out there, in the same way there are people out there who prefer to buy physical simply because they can sell the game when they are done for a little over half price. I don't blame them for being cheap, but it hurts the developers because the bottom line shown to investors is not customers but 2nd hand customers. It didn't even take 5 months for Capcom to report earnings for Phoenix Wright DD as within expectations, and now they are working on a new game.
    And that hogwash about "renting digital games instead of owning it", I own my SD card with Phoenix Wright DD. If Nintendo takes a giant crap, I got my SD backed up regularly, and the game is there at any time. It's already been tried by other players to restore digital games on the 3DS this way, so there's no risk of loss unless Lady Luck takes a giant crap on your computer, hard drives and 3DS at the same time.
    This is an old problem with all the previous gen of Pokemon. Have you tried importing Pokemon from a GBA game to a DS game? You could only migrate 6! And if I recall correctly it had to be either the first box or the last active box in the save file. And they get deleted from the GBA game. So I'm not surprised only the first box gets transferred this time around. See how easy it is for players to forget how much easier it is compared to before? This is where the entitlement comes from: gamers expecting current newer technology to fix the locked down nature of past technology.

    I also believe the hurdle was not giving the 3DS too much power in accessing save files. There has already been one DS related exploit that gave way to the Gateway, I think Nintendo was trying to be very cautious as to not repeat that again.
     
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