Hacking Crown3DS Update

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Foxi4

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See the difference?
It's not really a valid comparison to show hardware for a modern game cartridge and compare it to hardware for an entire system that was designed in the late 1980's.

On the CPS arcade board from your picture, the game itself is contained within the chips on the middle board. The reason they are so large and there are so many of them is simply due to the hardware limitations of the time.

Which is exactly my point - the cartridge is not only equipped with actual memory for Read-Only and Rewrittable data but also numerous mappers and controllers as seen on the right-hand side of the cartridge. Today's cartridges don't - they don't need it anymore, they're standardised, hence their structure is far simpler than of those of the olden days.

doyama made the inaccurate comparison, I was just showing him why he's wrong.
 

iNFiNiTY

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If the carts were all standard and as simple as you are claiming then pirate carts would be trivial to make... sounds like that's what you are you implying at least. Obviously though, they are not and can't be done without certain info being obtained. I don't know details on how carts authenticate, but i thought Crown3DS was a legitimate attempt at something at least; getting solely the rom chip booting certainly sounded feasible and not something even worth lying about doing.
 

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If the carts were all standard and as simple as you are claiming then pirate carts would be trivial to make... sounds like that's what you are you implying at least. Obviously though, they are not and can't be done without certain info being obtained.

Pirate DS cartridges surfaced quite soon after the DS's release, and I'm not talking about flashcarts but about knock-off game carts made in China. The situation will be exactly the same with the 3DS - it's like this with every FLASH-based medium.
 

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iNFiNiTY

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If the carts were all standard and as simple as you are claiming then pirate carts would be trivial to make... sounds like that's what you are you implying at least. Obviously though, they are not and can't be done without certain info being obtained.

Pirate DS cartridges surfaced quite soon after the DS's release, and I'm not talking about flashcarts but about knock-off game carts made in China. The situation will be exactly the same with the 3DS - it's like this with every FLASH-based medium.

Hardware protection must exist in some way, i don't think the cart uses the same blowfish-encrypted every startup.. if that was the case then you could just feed the DS the read data and had a design that allowed a cpu/ram, a physical switch to switch between the read data. DS having pirate carts quickly is just typical Nintendo poor implemented i'd wager, didn't DSi block them too.. hardly seems like 'clone' carts.

People should probably just get out of a flashcart mindset at all anyway.. any method is very unlikely to require a flashcart. It's clear now that if you can boot an executable from the cart it's possible to sign it to boot from the sd instead. With updates the norm it doesn't make sense to go that route.

Edit: just thinking off the top of my head it would hardly need a massive cart design change to have something unique per cart that is not possible to read, or other methods involving a real-time clock prehaps. But the issue is Nintendo barely putting any effort into protection at all.. the 3DS doesn't even have the DS protection methods given to developers, so there's not even a backup plan or any other layer of security; while Nintendo makes statements completely ignoring their own role on ap.nintendo.com. Publishers should be actually complaining.
 

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if i want to troll, i just need to make it 100% and said it complete, ready to come out any time soon.
But i'm not joking and that is really what i see yesterday
 

Foxi4

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If the carts were all standard and as simple as you are claiming then pirate carts would be trivial to make... sounds like that's what you are you implying at least. Obviously though, they are not and can't be done without certain info being obtained.

Pirate DS cartridges surfaced quite soon after the DS's release, and I'm not talking about flashcarts but about knock-off game carts made in China. The situation will be exactly the same with the 3DS - it's like this with every FLASH-based medium.

Hardware protection must exist in some way, i don't think the cart uses the same blowfish-encrypted every startup.. if that was the case then you could just feed the DS the read data and had a design that allowed a cpu/ram, a physical switch to switch between the read data. DS having pirate carts quickly is just typical Nintendo poor implemented i'd wager, didn't DSi block them too.. hardly seems like 'clone' carts.

People should probably just get out of a flashcart mindset at all anyway.. any method is very unlikely to require a flashcart. It's clear now that if you can boot an executable from the cart it's possible to sign it to boot from the sd instead. With updates the norm it doesn't make sense to go that route.

Edit: just thinking off the top of my head it would hardly need a massive cart design change to have something unique per cart that is not possible to read, or other methods involving a real-time clock prehaps. But the issue is Nintendo barely putting any effort into protection at all.. the 3DS doesn't even have the DS protection methods given to developers, so there's not even a backup plan or any other layer of security; while Nintendo makes statements completely ignoring their own role on ap.nintendo.com. Publishers should be actually complaining.
You're missing the point. When you successfuly reproduce a cartridge, you don't have to worry about encryption or protocol - it's going to be the same as the one on an original because you practically flash the same info onto the chips.
 

doyama

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Which is exactly my point - the cartridge is not only equipped with actual memory for Read-Only and Rewrittable data but also numerous mappers and controllers as seen on the right-hand side of the cartridge. Today's cartridges don't - they don't need it anymore, they're standardised, hence their structure is far simpler than of those of the olden days.

doyama made the inaccurate comparison, I was just showing him why he's wrong.

Having stuff 'neatly marked' is not indiciative of 'easy of reverse engineering'. All you've done is replace 15x5k modules with a single 1GB module that no one knows anything about. It was actually EASIER in the old days becaues you at least knew which chips to look at. Now you have a single monololithc chip that contains everything, and it's a giant black box. None of these chips are 'standard' in any way shape or form. They're all custom designed for Nintendo. The only think the Sandisk moniker tells you is that it was made by them and contains memory with a custom control module. Again sandisk being a memory vendor this makes sense, but beyond that it tells you nothing about how the chip is actually laid out, how the data structure inside looks, any hardware based security, codes and such that stay internal to the system and are not exposed to the external pins, etc. You can try to dump the contents of the ROM but that doesn't give you much insight since the controller is the key component. You're actually worse off since the amount of data and logic is exponentially greater than anything you'd be ripping out of a arcade ROM.

I can assure you as an IC engineer that 'copying' a chip that isn't running some kind of standard interface is going to be close to impossible. This means you know literally EVERYTHING about how the chip works both internally and externally. That is something you cannot know unless you have either stolen how the cart signal specification works, or you're looking at the gate to see how the logic internally works for the signalling. Unless they come up with some ACTUAL news with some real technical details about how they're doing this, I am fairly confident in my analysis. Saying 'we're making a copy' may sound good to a lay person but it raises eyebrows for anyone in the know.

Perhaps I will be proven wrong. Certainly that would be interesting. However the technical hurdles are incredibly high and not something that I believe is possible. The reason people look for exploits is because HUMANS ARE STUPID. It's much easier to look for mistakes by humans, than to try to think like a machine.
 
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finkmac

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disclaimer: i wouldn't of know about this comme t if i didnt search my own username.
Thirdly, holy shit I'm turning into prowler :cry:
nope
your not typing ironically enough

edit: and your using emoticons thats a no zone

edit2: and your not kewl.

And, you aren't typing in lowercase, without punctuation.
 
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