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Lol, does this mean teachers/students can't quote the bill when in Tennessee? I imagine it says "gay" somewhere.
'Don't say gay' bill has passed the Tennessee Senate
- Thread starter smile72
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Right, why should I? You know it's true. You can't have freedom of speech without having whatever you say having negative implications. Be thankful you have the right to vote, many people in this world don't.TwinRetro said:
DSGamer64 said:
Not that I want to argue with ya, but if several people that are native english speakers don't really get what you're saying, it is likely that there's something wrong with the way you're trying to grasp your point rather than their reading comperhension.
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DSGamer64 said:
Since you seem to know everything about a country you have absolutely no stock in, I would assume you have heard of Inalienable Rights...that is to say the rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? These rights trump ANY constitutional amendments including Freedom of speech. Chew on that one for a bit before you start slapping on the keyboard, yeah? I'm sure you're smart enough to put 2 and 2 together.
JoostinOnline said:
No it's not slander, just goes to show you that politicians are dumb. The problem with society today is that everyone is afraid that whatever they might say will hurt someone else's feelings, which I disagree with. I mean you look at Christmas time now, everyone says 'holiday party' and 'holiday shopping' instead of using the word Christmas (at least here anyway, I am sure it happens in the US though). I mean, people need to grow some skin really, if they are that offended to traditions and things that were once considered acceptable, then just ignore it or turn off your TV's and live like hermits. Canada seems to be a bit gungho on making the butt hurt people happy, they banned a 31 year old song before it was radio edited because it contained a slang for gay people, but in 1980 the word in question was not considered to have the same negative connotations as it does now. That song was Money for Nothing by Dire Straits, great tune actually. The point is, if people are so hurt over simple things like this, then they should just lock themselves away or something and ignore the world.
I personally avoid the use of the word 'gay' when possible, but mainly for referencing something silly or dumb, not the people.
WOW.
I'm totally amazed because of what I said freedom of speech there is this huge flame war going on.
I never intended to use "freedom of speech" to say that everything is permitted.
But I'm sure people can all agree that gay or homosexual should not be limited for discussion just because of some opinions and/or politics.
I'm totally amazed because of what I said freedom of speech there is this huge flame war going on.
I never intended to use "freedom of speech" to say that everything is permitted.
But I'm sure people can all agree that gay or homosexual should not be limited for discussion just because of some opinions and/or politics.
You said the words "why would I want to live in a country..." and were referring to America when you said that. But America's not a country, it's a continent.DSGamer64 said:
Interesting discussion... I'm so sorry I came late to the dance. After reading ten pages of responses, I have a couple of opinions.
First, I think it's reasonable to assume, at least in the confines of this discussion, when someone says America, (s)he is referring to the US. There are two American continents, so if you're going to be THAT anal about it, you need to be more specific in your ranting.
Next, as a gay person living in the south, more specifically right next door to Tennessee , I can assure you that we are everywhere. Johnson City has a gay club that's popular enough that the folks in Western North Carolina and the other surround areas flock to it. I know TN is a bit back backwards, but I didn't realize they still had these kinds of issues.
Most kids have some form of sex ed when they are 10 years old (5th grade, I think). Most kids have already started talking about sex with each other before that. Some kids have already started experimenting. Others will do it soon after. It is a fact that most parents don't properly educate their children about sex. It is a fact that people, in general, who haven't been properly educated about sex have higher instances of unwanted pregnancy and STDs. That's even higher in young adults and adolescents. Add to that LGBT children/teens (yes, they exist) have an even more difficult time ascertaining correct information, I know there are a lot of parents who think that sex should only be taught in the home, and sadly, most of those people are the ones who don't ever actually do the teaching.
And saying that you can't discuss homosexuality in a non-sexual circumstance is just silly. Pretending something isn't there doesn't make it go away.
First, I think it's reasonable to assume, at least in the confines of this discussion, when someone says America, (s)he is referring to the US. There are two American continents, so if you're going to be THAT anal about it, you need to be more specific in your ranting.
Next, as a gay person living in the south, more specifically right next door to Tennessee , I can assure you that we are everywhere. Johnson City has a gay club that's popular enough that the folks in Western North Carolina and the other surround areas flock to it. I know TN is a bit back backwards, but I didn't realize they still had these kinds of issues.
Most kids have some form of sex ed when they are 10 years old (5th grade, I think). Most kids have already started talking about sex with each other before that. Some kids have already started experimenting. Others will do it soon after. It is a fact that most parents don't properly educate their children about sex. It is a fact that people, in general, who haven't been properly educated about sex have higher instances of unwanted pregnancy and STDs. That's even higher in young adults and adolescents. Add to that LGBT children/teens (yes, they exist) have an even more difficult time ascertaining correct information, I know there are a lot of parents who think that sex should only be taught in the home, and sadly, most of those people are the ones who don't ever actually do the teaching.
And saying that you can't discuss homosexuality in a non-sexual circumstance is just silly. Pretending something isn't there doesn't make it go away.
it doesn't matter if a country is a third world country or not. countries, cultures, vary from place to place.Foxi4 said:
also, i wasn't comparing the US to the other countries. i was naming other countries where stuff like this happens. my point is, it's not uncommon - and it's not only in america.
it's true, it sucks that this kind of thing happens, and it's a bit embarrassing that our (american) homosexuals receive treatment comparable to those of third world countries, but we don't always agree with our government. so no, i'm not happy with bathing in shit over mud. i want to get the fuck out of this country.
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If we are getting technical, "America" isn't a continent either. North America and South America are continents. If someone says "America", they mean "the United States of America".trumpet-205 said:
i think he was just getting overtechnical (nitpicky) to further try to prove his point.JoostinOnline said:
Actually I was being deadly serious and not technical at all. Ignorance pisses me off.JoostinOnline said:
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I have to agree. If Tennesseeans are americans, Mexicans are too, what with Mexico being a state (i.e. nation) in the Americas and all. The whole "America means USA" thing has always pissed me off. Venezuela (run by super-commie Hugo Chávez) is also an American state. Not part of this particular union, but a state in the Americas nonetheless.machomuu said:
I will ignore the debate on the dictionary instead pointing at vincentx77's post as it says most of what I might.
It occurred to me that I never picked apart the would be bill. Nod due to The Living Shadow for sparing my lazy self the effort of wading through the minefield that is most US legislation. Afraid I am too lazy to grab the existing legislature to see if this is a net benefit or not (by the looks of things it is not though).
Picking apart (1) I already doubted the need for parental overview
Historical implications is an odd one to my mind- certainly it would not do to forget history and especially not in this area. However it seems it will require some serious tact to teach properly. I would hate to be the first prosecutor to try and nail someone for falling short here too.
If anything the whole statement almost looks like a call for a comprehensive/cross field teaching of such matters rather than the scientific principles and "don't do it" that presently passes for education.
"those implications are best understood by children with sufficient maturity to grasp their complexity"
Interesting- I have issues with the practice but are not most other subjects taught at highly simplified levels and complexity piled on and subjects linked together as things move forward?
Onto (2)
"that discusses sexual orientation other than heterosexuality"
I believe we have already dismissed this statement and I have nothing that will further the discussion on that at this point but I will note the clever wording- whether it was intentional (someone appreciates that orientation is a spectrum) or not (someone liked some more poetic language or maybe working with a twisted version of political correctness) I will leave to others to debate (it will probably require looking at early discussion or first drafts of the thing).
@ BlueStar thanks for the parallel- it had not crossed my mind primarily as the LEA's and/or schools I found myself the subject of seemed to ignore it. That or the textbooks were so ancient that they fell before the law.
It occurred to me that I never picked apart the would be bill. Nod due to The Living Shadow for sparing my lazy self the effort of wading through the minefield that is most US legislation. Afraid I am too lazy to grab the existing legislature to see if this is a net benefit or not (by the looks of things it is not though).
Code:
SB0049
00120166
-1-
SENATE BILL 49
By Campfield
AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 49,
Chapter 6, Part 10, relative to education.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:
SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 49-6-1005, is amended by adding
the following as new subsection (c) and by relettering the existing subsection (c) accordingly:
(c)
(1) The general assembly recognizes the sensitivity of particular subjects
that are best explained and discussed in the home. Human sexuality is a
complex subject with societal, scientific, psychological, and historical
implications; those implications are best understood by children with sufficient
maturity to grasp their complexity.
(2) Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, no public elementary or
middle school shall provide any instruction or material that discusses sexual
orientation other than heterosexuality.
SECTION 2. This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring
it.Picking apart (1) I already doubted the need for parental overview
Historical implications is an odd one to my mind- certainly it would not do to forget history and especially not in this area. However it seems it will require some serious tact to teach properly. I would hate to be the first prosecutor to try and nail someone for falling short here too.
If anything the whole statement almost looks like a call for a comprehensive/cross field teaching of such matters rather than the scientific principles and "don't do it" that presently passes for education.
"those implications are best understood by children with sufficient maturity to grasp their complexity"
Interesting- I have issues with the practice but are not most other subjects taught at highly simplified levels and complexity piled on and subjects linked together as things move forward?
Onto (2)
"that discusses sexual orientation other than heterosexuality"
I believe we have already dismissed this statement and I have nothing that will further the discussion on that at this point but I will note the clever wording- whether it was intentional (someone appreciates that orientation is a spectrum) or not (someone liked some more poetic language or maybe working with a twisted version of political correctness) I will leave to others to debate (it will probably require looking at early discussion or first drafts of the thing).
@ BlueStar thanks for the parallel- it had not crossed my mind primarily as the LEA's and/or schools I found myself the subject of seemed to ignore it. That or the textbooks were so ancient that they fell before the law.
While I agree it's beneficial for children of gay/Takei parents to avoid verbal bullying, I'd say it's taking things a little too seriously.
That said, if anyone chooses to be Takei, I'd say they also choose to be labelled as such. So what's wrong with accusing Takei people of being Takei? I don't think there's anything offensive about discussing how people happen to be Takei anyway
Of course what I'm saying is not similar to the scenario of an African American/British/etc being labelled as that derogatory term. They, like members of every other race, did not choose to be a member of such a race and so do not choose to be labelled as such
That said, if anyone chooses to be Takei, I'd say they also choose to be labelled as such. So what's wrong with accusing Takei people of being Takei? I don't think there's anything offensive about discussing how people happen to be Takei anyway
Of course what I'm saying is not similar to the scenario of an African American/British/etc being labelled as that derogatory term. They, like members of every other race, did not choose to be a member of such a race and so do not choose to be labelled as such
ZAFDeltaForce said:
I don't think you get the purpose of the bill. It's not to stop people calling gay kids gay. It's to stop teachers telling children about homosexuality, or children having their questions about the subject answered.
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Update on my brother: He's home now, tired and hungry, obviously, but other than that, seems to be doing fine.+2 -
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Well, from what I've heard from my parents, he had a seizure last night, perhaps an epileptic episode, fucking died, had a near death experience, my dad called the paramedics, they showed up, took him to the hospital, and he woke up covered in tubes, and started complaining.
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