Covid-19 vaccine

[Dakitten]

An interesting survey by Carnegie:

https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/news/news-stories/2021/july/covid-hesitancy.html

Here are the parts that catch attention:



To translate from statistics to English, this turns the idea that people hesitant in regards to vaccinations *or* people who outright refuse to take them are "uneducated" upside down. It appears that the group that is hardest to convince is in fact the group with the highest educational success, PhD's. Sorted by education, their hesitancy is the highest. My guess, to paint with broad strokes, is that they're a group of people who think they're "too smart" to get sick - smarter than the experts. It's hubris. The people in the middle, with moderate educational attunement, are easily convinced.

In addition, large swathes of people refuse to take the vaccine on political grounds entirely. They're not concerned about the actual side effects, only the moderates are. You can't convince a person like that, it's a waste of time.

This makes perfect sense to me - people who have achieved success in the realm of education tend to consider themselves the smartest person in the room regardless of qualifications in a given subject matter. More broadly, people tend to tow the party line, so they'll obviously show dissent if the issue continues to be politicised. Nothing new under the sun for the observant among us, but it confirms suspicions with some numbers.

Oh joy, another non-peer reviewed paper with dubious headlines from Foxy... you really ought to wait for some meaningful numbers before making speeches and proclamations.

 

[Foxi4]

Oh joy, another non-peer reviewed paper with dubious headlines from Foxy... you really ought to wait for some meaningful numbers before making speeches and proclamations.

So your only rebuttal in response to a paper published by a well-respected university is "dubious headline"? It's hard for me to take criticism from someone who can't spell my name while having it in front of their face. I'm sorry that you don't like the data, but it's still data.

 

[SG854]

Oh joy, another non-peer reviewed paper with dubious headlines from Foxy... you really ought to wait for some meaningful numbers before making speeches and proclamations.

Did you even read what foxi wrote? His conclusion wasn't even that smart people knows best and are against the vaccine. His conclusion was that smart people think they are too smart for the vaccine based on the data and that High School educated were more level headed.

Other then that I don't know why you would be against what Foxi linked. The data makes sense.

So your only rebuttal in response to a paper published by a well-respected university is "dubious headline"? It's hard for me to take criticism from someone who can't spell my name while having it in front of their face. I'm sorry that you don't like the data, but it's still data.

Is there data for people with degree's that are in the medical field and people with degree's that are in areas other then medical? To see whats the split on vaccination.

Like someone with a PHD in Automobile Engeenering vs. a PHD in Medical Fields


Its garunteed that people in the medical field are more in favor of the vaccine then other PHD's.

 

[Foxi4]

Did you even read what foxi wrote? His conclusion wasn't even that smart people knows best and are against the vaccine. His conclusion was that smart people think they are too smart for the vaccine based on the data and that High School educated were more level headed.

Is there data for people with degree's that are in the medical field and people with degree's that are in areas other then medical? To see whats the split on vaccination.

Like someone with a PHD in Automotbile Engeenering vs. a PHD in Medical Fields

Its garunteed that people in the medical feild are more in favor of the vacinne then other PHD's.

I don't think they've delved into the specifics. I also wouldn't necessarily make that bet either - it's actually an anecdote among doctors that the worst kind of patient you might have is another doctor since they have a strong tendency to self-medicate or make subjective diagnoses. They argue with their own doctors routinely since they're professionals within the same field. If I do see any data that specifically concerns medical professionals, I'll let you know. In any case, I previously brought up the point that the rich and affluent comprised the bulk of the anti-vax movement in the past, so I'm not terribly surprised that there's a "too smart to get sick" segment emerging now.

EDIT: Just checked the questionnaire, this is the relevant question asked:

What is the highest degree or level of school you have completed?

1. Less than high school
2. High school graduate or equivalent (GED)
3. Some college
4. 2 year degree
5. 4 year degree
6. Master’s degree
7. Professional degree (e.g. MD, JD, DVM)
8. Doctorate

So all degrees are lumped into one category without a distinction of type - it's a general classification of "professional degree". Since this is the case, we can't draw conclusions regarding degree type based on this survey.

 

[SG854]

I don't think they've delved into the specifics. I also wouldn't necessarily make that bet either - it's actually an anecdote among doctors that the worst kind of patient you might have is another doctor since they have a strong tendency to self-medicate or make subjective diagnoses. They argue with their own doctors routinely since they're professionals within the same field. If I do see any data that specifically concerns medical professionals, I'll let you know. In any case, I previously brought up the point that the rich and affluent comprised the bulk of the anti-vax movement in the past, so I'm not terribly surprised that there's a "too smart to get sick" segment emerging now.

EDIT: Just checked the questionnaire, this is the relevant question asked:

So all degrees are lumped into one category without a distinction of type - it's a general classification of "professional degree". Since this is the case, we can't draw conclusions regarding degree type based on this survey.

We already have data of Doctors that are in support of the vaccine. And a huge overwhelming number are in favor.

Even though Doctors are always debating amoung themselves on the Effectivness of it and coming up with better testing methodology.

But data of % of other PHD's that are in favor vs % Doctors would be nice to paint a better picture of how highly educated people can over estimate their intellegence and think they can talk in other areas they have no expertise in.

But the rich I assume think they can just buy their way out of sickness with the best Doctors if they ever got sick.

 

[Foxi4]

We already have data of Doctors that are in support of the vaccine. And a huge overwhelming number are in favor.

Even though Doctors are always debating amoung themselves on the Effectivness of it and coming up with better testing methodology.

But data of % of other PHD's that are in favor vs % Doctors would be nice to paint a better picture of how highly educated people can over estimate their intellegence and think they can talk in other areas they have no expertise in.

But the rich I assume think they can just buy their way out of sickness with the best Doctors if they ever got sick.

I mean, the Dunning-Kruger effect is already well-documented. Moreover, people who experience success in one field automatically feel more qualified to speak on all subjects, not just their area of expertise, since how hard could it be compared to X, X being what they're already good at. This reminds me of Neil the ass Tyson routinely making a fool of himself when talking about biology - he's an astrophysicist, his knowledge of biology is on the level of a high school student, and it shows.

If there were ever a species for whom sex hurt, it surely went extinct long ago.

— Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson) March 11, 2016

For the record, there are multiple species to which sex is excruciatingly painful or even fatal. His various gaffes will never stop being funny to me, the guy doesn't know how to stay in his lane.

 

[Dakitten]

I don't think they've delved into the specifics. I also wouldn't necessarily make that bet either - it's actually an anecdote among doctors that the worst kind of patient you might have is another doctor since they have a strong tendency to self-medicate or make subjective diagnoses. They argue with their own doctors routinely since they're professionals within the same field. If I do see any data that specifically concerns medical professionals, I'll let you know. In any case, I previously brought up the point that the rich and affluent comprised the bulk of the anti-vax movement in the past, so I'm not terribly surprised that there's a "too smart to get sick" segment emerging now.

EDIT: Just checked the questionnaire, this is the relevant question asked:

So all degrees are lumped into one category without a distinction of type - it's a general classification of "professional degree". Since this is the case, we can't draw conclusions regarding degree type based on this survey.

This is exactly the point I was making. To just say PHD doesn't actually mean experts in a relevant field are being hesitant for good reason. The study is not really very relevant since the questions don't gain meaningful data, which ties back into it not yet being peer reviewed. I can't for the life of me see it being useful in making the point Foxy was trying to make, and just because it was done by individuals at a prestigious University doesn't mean the data is worthwhile.

 

[Foxi4]

This is exactly the point I was making. To just say PHD doesn't actually mean experts in a relevant field are being hesitant for good reason. The study is not really very relevant since the questions don't gain meaningful data, which ties back into it not yet being peer reviewed. I can't for the life of me see it being useful in making the point Foxy was trying to make, and just because it was done by individuals at a prestigious University doesn't mean the data is worthwhile.

This post reveals that you don't know what point was being made. Perhaps reading it again might shed some light on what it was actually about. Worst case scenario you'll get it on the third try.

 

[Lacius]

FDA grants full approval to Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine. Please put down the horse de-wormers and go get vaccinated.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/23/health/fda-approval-pfizer-covid-vaccine/index.html

 

[djpannda]

FDA grants full approval to Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine. Please put down the horse de-wormers and go get vaccinated.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/23/health/fda-approval-pfizer-covid-vaccine/index.html

you beat me to it
FDA grants full approval to Pfizer-BioNTech’s Covid shot, clearing path to more vaccine mandates

man cant wait for soccer season

 

[D34DL1N3R]

Can't wait for more mandates with the FDA approval. Yes, I am being serious. I am 100% in favor of more mandates. It's amusing watching people cry about their freedoms. Guess what? Anti-vaxxers/maskers aren't the only ones with freedoms. Plenty of people have the freedom to create mandates. You want your freedom respected? Then you also need to respect the freedom of others to not let you into their restaurant, bar, movie theater, sporting event, grocery store, whatever the case may be. The thing about the antis is that they for some odd reason think they are the only ones who have freedoms. No one can force you to take the vaccine, but they CAN force you out of their business & your job for not taking it. That's THEIR freedom. Suck it. Can't have freedom only your way.

 

[Foxi4]

Can't wait for more mandates with the FDA approval. Yes, I am being serious. I am 100% in favor of more mandates. It's amusing watching people cry about their freedoms. Guess what? Anti-vaxxers/maskers aren't the only ones with freedoms. Plenty of people have the freedom to create mandates. You want your freedom respected? Then you also need to respect the freedom of others to not let you into their restaurant, bar, movie theater, sporting event, grocery store, whatever the case may be. The thing about the antis is that they for some odd reason think they are the only ones who have freedoms. No one can force you to take the vaccine, but they CAN force you out of their business & your job for not taking it. That's THEIR freedom. Suck it. Can't have freedom only your way.

I'm not against mask mandates, it's a piece of cloth - grow up. I am against vaccination mandates, even though I am pro vaccine all the way. Nobody should be forced to undergo any medical procedure or take any drug they don't want just because the government tells them to, even if they refuse for boneheaded reasons.

 

[Lacius]

I'm not against mask mandates, it's a piece of cloth - grow up. I am against vaccination mandates, even though I am pro vaccine all the way. Nobody should be forced to undergo any medical procedure or take any drug they don't want just because the government tells them to, even if they refuse for boneheaded reasons.

We have a long precedent of vaccine mandates in the United States, most notably in public schools. Are you against these too?

 

[Foxi4]

We have a long precedent of vaccine mandates in the United States, most notably in public schools. Are you against these too?

As far as vaccination of children is concerned, I'm in two minds. On one hand, I respect the right of the parents to decide on behalf of their child which drugs and procedures are appropriate and which are not. On the other, I also believe that the state should protect minors from adults who are stupid, since their decisions affect the rest of the child's life. We have a similar problem with religious exemptions in regards to blood transfusions or transplants of animal-derived heart valves, actually. I can't decide between the two, so I abstain.

 

[Lacius]

As far as vaccination of children is concerned, I'm in two minds. On one hand, I respect the right of the parents to decide on behalf of their child which drugs and procedures are appropriate or not. On the other, I also believe that the state should protect minors from adults who are stupid, since their decisions affect the rest of the child's life. We have a similar problem with religious exemptions in regards to blood transfusions or heart valves animal-derived heart valves, actually. I can't decide between the two, so I abstain.

I suppose that means you have to abstain from the topic of mandatory COVID-19 vaccinations for minors then.

 

[seany1990]

On the other, I also believe that the state should protect minors from adults who are stupid, since their decisions affect the rest of the child's life.

So arrest every parent at Trump rallies? It's a surprising take from you but I dig it

 

[Foxi4]

I suppose that means you have to abstain from the topic of mandatory COVID-19 vaccinations for minors then.

It's more specific, if anything.

So arrest every parent at Trump rallies? It's a surprising take from you but I dig it

Never said that, but okay.

 

[ghjfdtg]

Dunno about direct mandates to force people getting vaccinated. In our country tests will no longer be free in a few months with the assumption that all people who want got vaccinated by them. They will still be free for people who can't get vaccinated for various reasons. We had mask mandates for a long time however and that's perfectly fine.

 

[Dakitten]

I'm not against mask mandates, it's a piece of cloth - grow up. I am against vaccination mandates, even though I am pro vaccine all the way. Nobody should be forced to undergo any medical procedure or take any drug they don't want just because the government tells them to, even if they refuse for boneheaded reasons.

I suppose you could have the unvaccinated sequester themselves for a really long time, until herd immunity has been reached and new cases drop way off... Seems costly and like a good motivation for antivaxxers to reevaluate their decisions! But hey, I am sure that if they make good life choices and prayed to Bob, they'll have the resources to pull through just fine.

 

[tabzer]

Can't wait for more mandates with the FDA approval. Yes, I am being serious. I am 100% in favor of more mandates. It's amusing watching people cry about their freedoms. Guess what? Anti-vaxxers/maskers aren't the only ones with freedoms. Plenty of people have the freedom to create mandates. You want your freedom respected? Then you also need to respect the freedom of others to not let you into their restaurant, bar, movie theater, sporting event, grocery store, whatever the case may be. The thing about the antis is that they for some odd reason think they are the only ones who have freedoms. No one can force you to take the vaccine, but they CAN force you out of their business & your job for not taking it. That's THEIR freedom. Suck it. Can't have freedom only your way.

I'd posit the argument that there is a difference between a business refusing antivaxers (or to making a gay cake), and a government forcing said business to do so. If you are making the argument that people are free to force you to do something, then ignore that I said anything.