[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

[notimp]

Again, look at the timestamps in your own screenshot.
The unread explanation of your warning was on THURSDAY. The message you sent to the site admin was "Yesterday" which is FRIDAY. You did not contact the other moderating staff before this had happened. You did it afterwards.
The reason it is lower in the list is because it's read by you, while the unread ones stay at the top. LOL

Yesderday referred to the last interaction with the admin, first message sent in that conversation thread was on september 18. This is indicated by the position of the PNs, which you could have known.


History of events went as followed, you propagated basically hatespeech and conspiracy theories in here that were meant to blow up this thread with a bunch high emotion nonsense. You fostered an atmosphere where this was not only fine, but liked. And supported by you - in the moderator role.

You added to that, by personally dropping in stories, that an entire party now speaking with one voice, was a wonderful thing, and ridiculed the person diverting from that opinion, for having another stance for too long.

I was in direct communitcation with the admin of this forum to get you removed as a moderator from this sub since September 18.

Then the provocation from people started, both of which we had discussions with on their factual points, calmly and in full length ("Biden is just supposed to die, to backdoor in another candidate", and "this election is about BABYKILLERS") which both of them entirely ignored, instead they started to spread emotional vitreal, and more conspiracy theories, which you personally liked on one occasion and supported in general.

You layed out the groundrules - for 'this is ok'.

As I started pushback, which included highly emotional language, trying not to let a person wanting to make this thread about babykillers and the conspiracy of babies being called fetuses, in utero - intercept any other discussion in here.

Then the warning point disamination for calling them an idiot started.-
-

I'll not classify your last post as an outright lie, the way the supermoderator qualified not reading PNs the SECOND they are sent, because his truth lies in datasets and timetables, that have nothing to do with how events were perceived in real time - because maybe you were mistaken.

But what transpired here was, that you got away with murder, and I have two warning points, for sticking up and doing arguably the right thing.

You argued, that you wanted to protect people from being called idiot, and now have your thread back to the point where people are bashing their heads in following seeded identity politics.

And now you are trying to flip the public image towards me being the issue.

Try your best - dont use lies.

 

[Hanafuda]

He has a shady financial history..

Not as shady as Biden's. And at least Trump was private sector until 4 yrs ago. Biden's been grifting on his status as an elected federal official for over 40 years.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...brother-hedge-fund-money-2020-campaign-227407

 

[gregory-samba]

The House Oversight Committee issued a subpoena after Cohen's testimony, dude.

Edit: Also, Barr is a hack whose statements abotu the report contradict the report.

The page doesn't say Congress issued the subpoena due to the situation with Cohen as Congress issued it for the other 4 reasons. I don't know enough about Cohen's hush payments as that situation never interested me so they could have been a motivating factor for Congresses subpoena, but you'd think then it would be listed under the reasons Congress issued to subpoena. Though, the separate entity, who are the leadership of New York are also seeking his records and it does mention the payments for the non-disclosure agreement. The timeline is a mess and I'm not sure if the cases in Congress and New York are related.

I'm also not too concerned about a list of lawsuits when none of the stuff that I read were criminal in nature plus the page starts off saying that basically lawsuits are normal if you're a successful business person. So the entire page is a list of normal boring lawsuits against Trump. I'm sure I'd have opinions about each one, but since you can sue anyone for anything I'd probably have a hard time believing he's guilty of everything he's been sued for. Civil matters don't interest me much.

I also see Trump used his legal options to thus far deny Congress access to his records, which he should do as they simply want to dig through his taxes to try to find something to fuck him over with. Since this is the same Congress that decided to impeach before he was even sworn in and regardless of guilt I'd say denying them access to personal information is the smart thing to do.

Though, from what I read about his taxes alone it still seems like a witch hunt to me. The civil stuff is normal, claims the page, so that stuff doesn't bother me either.

 

[Lacius]

The page doesn't say Congress issued the subpoena due to the situation with Cohen as Congress issued it for the other 4 reasons. I don't know enough about Cohen's hush payments as that situation never interested me so they could have been a motivating factor for Congresses subpoena, but you'd think then it would be listed under the reasons Congress issued to subpoena. Though, the separate entity, who are the leadership of New York are also seeking his records and it does mention the payments for the non-disclosure agreement. The timeline is a mess and I'm not sure if the cases in Congress and New York are related.

I'm also not too concerned about a list of lawsuits when none of the stuff that I read were criminal in nature plus the page starts off saying that basically lawsuits are normal if you're a successful business person. So the entire page is a list of normal boring lawsuits against Trump. I'm sure I'd have opinions about each one, but since you can sue anyone for anything I'd probably have a hard time believing he's guilty of everything he's been sued for. Civil matters don't interest me much.

I also see Trump used his legal options to thus far deny Congress access to his records, which he should do as they simply want to dig through his taxes to try to find something to fuck him over with. Since this is the same Congress that decided to impeach before he was even sworn in and regardless of guilt I'd say denying them access to personal information is the smart thing to do.

Though, from what I read about his taxes alone it still seems like a witch hunt to me. The civil stuff is normal, claims the page, so that stuff doesn't bother me either.

It's demonstrably not a witch hunt. I suggest you reread my posts.

There are also plenty of criminal acts on the page I sent you, not just business lawsuits. Many of the business lawsuits are also about criminal behavior.

 

[gregory-samba]

It's demonstrably not a witch hunt. I suggest you reread my posts.

There are also plenty of criminal acts on the page I sent you, not just business lawsuits. Many of the business lawsuits are also about criminal behavior.

Can you point one out to me where Trump was charged with a criminal offense?

 

[Foxi4]

Yesderday referred to the last interaction with the admin, first message sent in that conversation thread was on september 18. This is indicated by the position of the PNs, which you could have known.


History of events went as followed, you propagated basically hatespeech and conspiracy theories in here that were meant to blow up this thread with a bunch high emotion nonsense. You fostered an atmosphere where this was not only fine, but liked. And supported by you - in the moderator role.

You added to that, by personally dropping in stories, that an entire party now speaking with one voice, was a wonderful thing, and and ridiculed the person diverting from that opinion, for having another stance for too long.

I was in direct communitcation with the admin of this forum to get you removed as a moderator from this sub since September 18.

Then the provocation from people started, both of which we had discussions with on their factual points, calmly and in full length ("Biden is just supposed to die, to backdoor in another candidate", and "this election is about BABYKILLERS") which both of them entirely ignored, instead they started to spread emotional vitreal, and more conspiracy theories, which you personally liked on one occasion and supported in general.

You layed out the groundrules - for 'this is ok'.

As I started pushback, which included highly emotional language, trying not to let a person wanting to make this thread about babykillers and the conspiracy of babies being called fetuses, in utero - intercept any other discussion in here.

Then the warning point disamination for calling them an idiot started.-
-

I'll not classify your last post as an outright lie, the way the supermoderator qualified not reading PNs the SECOND they are sent, because his truth lies in datasets and timetables, that have nothing to do with how events were perceived in real time - because maybe you were mistaken.

But what transpired here was, that you got away with murder, and I have two warning points, for sticking up and doing arguably the right thing.

You argued, that you wanted to protect people from being called idiot, and now have your thread back to the point where people are bashing their heads in following seeded identity politics.

And now you are trying to flip the public image towards me being the issue.

Try your best - dont use lies.

You're not even talking to the right person.

I'm not going to waste the Supervisor's time wrangling you around. This is what you received two warning points for:

Spoiler

I'll be removing this post once "Prince notimp" graces me with his attention, since reading PM's is hard. Like I told you in the "threat" - you are not a moderator, I am. You do not decide who has to leave, I do. You don't get to flame or abuse other users, regardless of how you feel about what they post, period. Don't like a post you see? Report it. It's really that easy.

As I said in the PM, you will not get warned, suspended or banned for getting a second opinion (or third, or fourth at this point) from another member of staff. If that wasn't the case, you'd be gone by now. You absolutely will get warned, and potentially suspended or banned, for content that goes against our rules.

This post was queued for deletion for days, I informed you about the reasons why it was getting deleted publicly right before it went in the trash, and repeated the reasons in the PM which you "didn't read". Report my posts all day if that's what makes you happy, I don't care, that's not the reason why you were warned. You *know* the reason why you were warned, it was explained to you repeatedly.

The End.

 

[Lacius]

Can you point one out to me where Trump was charged with a criminal offense?

Trump has committed plenty of crimes without having yet been charged. He's currently being investigated for having committed numerous crimes. He also should have been charged for criminal obstruction of justice per the Mueller Report, but Barr blocked it.

If you want crimes he's been charged with, there are plenty on the list that you said you read. Trump University and the Trump Foundation come to mind off the top of my head.

 

[gregory-samba]

Trump has committed plenty of crimes without having yet been charged. He's currently being investigated for having committed numerous crimes. He also should have been charged for criminal obstruction of justice per the Mueller Report, but Barr blocked it.

If you want crimes he's been charged with, there are plenty on the list that you said you read. Trump University and the Trump Foundation come to mind off the top of my head.

I read most of the page and didn't find Trump being charged with a crime. He's only accused of them in numerous lawsuits and accusing someone of crimes in a civil suite doesn't mean they've been charged with criminal offenses. Even if he was charged with an actual criminal offense, which I haven't seen on the Wiki, was he convicted of the crimes and sentenced or did a Judge or Jury clear him of the charges? I'm not trying to play dumb, but I don't see on that site where he was actually arrested or charged criminally with a crime. I only see people claiming he broke the law in lawsuits.

 

[Lacius]

I read most of the page and didn't find Trump being charged with a crime. He's only accused of them in numerous lawsuits and accusing someone of crimes in a civil suite doesn't mean they've been charged with criminal offenses. Even if he was charged with an actual criminal offense, which I haven't seen on the Wiki, was he convicted of the crimes and sentenced or did a Judge or Jury clear him of the charges? I'm not trying to play dumb, but I don't see on that site where he was actually arrested or charged criminally with a crime. I only see people claiming he broke the law in lawsuits.

Nobody said he was arrested. You can break the law and be charged without indictment, arrest, etc. If I'm caught breaking the law when speeding, for example, I'm not going to get indicted. I'm going to pay a fine.

The Trump Foundation and Trump University are examples where Trump objectively and definitively broke the law, and he's was found to have broken the law. He's being investigated for other crimes. And, although he wasn't indicted, he did commit criminal obstruction of justice according to the Mueller Report.

If you read the Wikipedia page, you'll see he likely committed tax fraud, bank fraud, campaign finance violations, fraud related to the inauguration fund, and many more.

 

[The Catboy]

Nobody said he was arrested. You can break the law and be charged without indictment, arrest, etc. If I'm caught breaking the law when speeding, for example, I'm not going to get indicted. I'm going to pay a fine.

The Trump Foundation and Trump University are examples where Trump objectively and definitively broke the law, and he's was found to have broken the law. He's being investigated for other crimes. And, although he wasn't indicted, he did commit criminal obstruction of justice according to the Mueller Report.

If you read the Wikipedia page, you'll see he likely committed tax fraud, bank fraud, campaign finance violations, fraud related to the inauguration fund, and many more.

The less talked about fact is that he is still violating The Foreign Emoluments Clause by continuing to benefit from his company and using his power as president to expand his brand into countries like China. This is still an ongoing legal battle.

 

[Lacius]

The less talked about fact is that he is still violating The Foreign Emoluments Clause by continuing to benefit from his company and using his power as president to expand his brand into countries like China. This is still an ongoing legal battle.

I had to say "etc" and "many more" because there's just so much.

 

[gregory-samba]

Nobody said he was arrested. You can break the law and be charged without indictment, arrest, etc. If I'm caught breaking the law when speeding, for example, I'm not going to get indicted. I'm going to pay a fine.

The Trump Foundation and Trump University are examples where Trump objectively and definitively broke the law, and he's was found to have broken the law. He's being investigated for other crimes. And, although he wasn't indicted, he did commit criminal obstruction of justice according to the Mueller Report.

If you read the Wikipedia page, you'll see he likely committed tax fraud, bank fraud, campaign finance violations, fraud related to the inauguration fund, and many more.

So he's not been arrested or charged criminally? He's not been found guilty of a criminal offense and had to face sentencing in a criminal court?

 

[Lacius]

So he's not been arrested or charged criminally? He's not been found guilty of a criminal offense and had to face sentencing in a criminal court?

The Trump Foundation and Trump University have been found to have committed crimes, yes. Trump is also under investigation for numerous crimes. The evidence is also clear that Trump is guilty of other crimes, despite Barr the political hack not charging him and lying about the Mueller Report.

 

[Foxi4]

I'm afraid that @Lacius is correct, @gregory-samba. Investigations like this require access to confidential documents which necessitate a warrant to obtain before any guilt can be established. As such, they are often conducted based on a suspicion of committing a crime, or based on a suspicious audit/official filings. There's a procedure in place for obtaining such warrants too. With that said, @gregory-samba isn't entirely incorrect - there is a possibility that such an investigation could be conducted based on the "fruits of a poisonous tree" as they say, which is why we have various oversight committees to ensure that they are conducted correctly. I imagine it would be within the purview of Congress to request such records, although I myself am not particularly interested in Trump's tax filings. You have to be fair and balanced - if Trump is purposefully making things difficult, acknowledge that.

 

[r0achtheunsavory]

Dude, stop deleting everyone's posts. I was not "calling anyone names." I simply stand by Ted Kaczynski's research into what "liberalism" actually is. Ted Kaczynski is no idiot. He was a math genius and has been cited by plenty of left and right wingers. His statement is that liberalism is a disorder based on inferiority complex.

You can read about it here. Pretty much every intelligent person on the planet has read his stuff before from college professors to anyone else:

Industrial Society and Its Future:
http://editions-hache.com/essais/pdf/kaczynski2.pdf

 

[deficitdisorder]

Dude, stop deleting everyone's posts. I was not "calling anyone names." I simply stand by Ted Kaczynski's research into what "liberalism" actually is. Ted Kaczynski is no idiot. He was a math genius and has been cited by plenty of left and right wingers. His statement is that liberalism is a disorder based on inferiority complex.

You can read about it here. Pretty much every intelligent person on the planet has read his stuff before from college professors to anyone else:

Industrial Society and Its Future:
http://editions-hache.com/essais/pdf/kaczynski2.pdf

I don't think relying on the domestic terrorist known as the unibomber is the most solid of foundations for political discussion.

 

[r0achtheunsavory]

There's no such thing as 'invalid' political players. Whoever is on the chess board creating some type of cause and effect is going to do so whether you approve of their existence or not. Both ANTIFA and Ted Kaczynski have been labeled terrorists as well as the founding fathers of the US.

It's up to the random lifeforms roaming the surface of the planet to determine if any of these groups have any type of point to what they say. It's typically the group that has no point at all with none of their arguments standing up to any type of debate that want to censor every other group.

Usually revolving around scams like "anything I don't like is a conspiracy theory" or "anyone who disagrees with me is racist." I don't think the words "conspiracy theory" were very popular until US government intelligence agencies started spamming the phrase to try and discredit anyone who questioned JFK's death.

 

[gregory-samba]

The Trump Foundation and Trump University have been found to have committed crimes, yes. Trump is also under investigation for numerous crimes. The evidence is also clear that Trump is guilty of other crimes, despite Barr the political hack not charging him and lying about the Mueller Report.

You've failed once again to answer my question. I'm wondering if Trump was ever charged with any criminal offenses? Criminal is a law term as there's two types of crimes you can be charged with, which are civil or criminal. I've read over the page twice and all I see are civil cases, mostly lawsuits, which the authors of the Wiki admits are just day to day business in rich people world. I'm not interested in what or other people think he's done as I don't need to play arm chair lawyer. If he's committed and actual criminal offense and charged with a criminal crime other than just these civil matters is my question and what I'd like to know. Then to expand on that I'd like to know if he was proven guilty by a Jury of his peers or a presiding Judge. What you think he's guilty of is a far cry from what he's actually been found guilty of.

I understand there is a need to gather evidence @Foxi4, but after the way Congress has treated our President I approve of him not just handing over anything they want or playing nice. If they had accused Trump of something specific and not so broad and had enough evidence other than the tax records, but needed the tax records due to the other evidence they had I'd see how they could be important. As it stands right now, other than some normal day to day business in rich people world, I don't see a direct case that would hang on something that would be in the tax returns.

 

[Lacius]

You've failed once again to answer my question. I'm wondering if Trump was ever charged with any criminal offenses? Criminal is a law term as there's two types of crimes you can be charged with, which are civil or criminal. I've read over the page twice and all I see are civil cases, mostly lawsuits, which the authors of the Wiki admits are just day to day business in rich people world. I'm not interested in what or other people think he's done as I don't need to play arm chair lawyer. If he's committed and actual criminal offense and charged with a criminal crime other than just these civil matters is my question and what I'd like to know. Then to expand on that I'd like to know if he was proven guilty by a Jury of his peers or a presiding Judge. What you think he's guilty of is a far cry from what he's actually been found guilty of.

I understand there is a need to gather evidence @Foxi4, but after the way Congress has treated our President I approve of him not just handing over anything they want or playing nice. If they had accused Trump of something specific and not so broad and had enough evidence other than the tax records, but needed the tax records due to the other evidence they had I'd see how they could be important. As it stands right now, other than some normal day to day business in rich people world, I don't see a direct case that would hang on something that would be in the tax returns.

The Trump Foundation and Trump University were charged criminally. Please read before posting.

 

[VartioArtel]

Voting for Biden. Hate Biden but Donald should never have been voted in in the first place.
Still surprises me how many people support such blatant corruption and incompetence. Has American Education really sunk so low? Why are my fellow countrymen so easily manipulatable?

Implying the Democratic nominees aren't corrupt?

Kamala Harris is a known corrupt District Attorney, she was very prone to hiding evidence that would exonerate defendants and would only yield them when under threat of Federal Law.
(See:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5df094-392b-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article233375207.html
https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/inside-kamala-harris-polarizing-record-as-a-prosecutor/
Etc Etc )

Biden has more than ample history (including family) with Foreign Governments, especially his son Biden (sound familiar? Same with Trump). Then there's the fact that Biden was directly contacting the FBI to provide them reasons to keep/convict General Flynn.
(See:
https://www.ajc.com/news/list-names...mp-ally-michael-flynn/FAGs2cw3Q3eqk8rKXX6E0H/
Heavily suggest btw
)

Has his 'constituents' handed questions specifically to ask him (which proves that he is basically just answering questions he already has the answer to)
(see:

- Same scenario, bigger clip showing more before the talk started)

Also: Biden is so close to reaching a point where he'd actually mistake a painting of Abraham Lincoln as his wife. Biden himself is barely on the table and it's clear Kamala's "Harris Administration with Joe Biden as president" is alluding how unhealthy he is.
(Do I NEED to go out of the way for this one?)

I am not saying Trump is clean cause he's also dirty as all sin, it comes down to the actions of the parties, the political movements they're endorsing, and who they're promoting OUTSIDE the election. And that's barely any better.

I trust in our government to not let him get a third term regardless who's in charge.
I don't trust in the left not pushing to remove all law enforcement the best they can if Biden wins.

Any damage Trump does is temporary, he's not changing laws as much as stretching them and that can be resolved and undone - and odds are he'll meet his come-uppance someday for this absurdity. What I'm terrified of is the left changing laws that are inherently damaging to the safety, security, or well being of any and all peoples, and then it never getting undone amidst the fustercluck that will be future administrations.

Also there's an undeniable fact: in these 4 years Trump's been brokering peace deals with the middle east ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Accords ) and the Koreas ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Treaty_on_Korean_Peninsula ). (Whether you agree with the details or not - there is a decrease in hostilities).

I will never say Trump is a good president, but I trust Kamala and Biden just as much. So for me it comes down to the parties positions. And I will Never unsee CNN's "FIERY BUT PEACEFUL PROTESTS" ( https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/888/709/785.jpg ) in my mind's eye as the single most damning, braindead statement I will ever see in my life. It was when I saw them attempting to dissuade people from the idea that there were ACTUAL RIOTS going on that I flat out decided I could not trust the left.

And to this day, the left will never address the riots for what they are. They'll focus on the 'peaceful' members who stood there and let it happen. Or the 'hate crimes' inflicted on a criminal like Blake who was trying to kidnap children after assaulting one woman and sexual assaulting another. Or how the riots ruined one of their own group's gas station (

Owner of a black owned gas station who also protested with BLM goes nuclear after her gas station got mega ultra fucked by #BlackLivesMatter.
Irony. pic.twitter.com/Sd5yk05kUm

— Memology 101 (@NewsM101) September 6, 2020

). Or how Breonna Taylor (victim as she wasn't the one who shot) was actively part of a Drug Ring ( ).

While the right are full of disinformation, I don't see nearly as much gross negligence of facts about violent incidents especially involving criminals. The Proud boys for example got violent last night at Delta Park with a few people. But there's also a case that shows there's more to this - possibly false flags in the group or extremists that the left were picking out (hey, if the left can claim that it was mostly peaceful, so can the right):

Not sure why this part of the tweet didn’t thread. FYI this incident occurred hours ago and I tried to tweet it. The tweets failed but seem to have gone through as I finished my livestream. https://t.co/YATk5v0Ki8

— Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) September 26, 2020

.

Why not vote independent? That might as well be a non-vote, let's not lie to ourselves. This country supports a two-party system thanks to media abuse and bias. And if you attempt to go anywhere in between, they BOTH decry you as the other side and you're not going to be picked by EITHER side. Voting independent is as good as not voting. We're sadly stuck in a country where you need to vote between the lesser of two evils. And right now? At least in my opinion? The Democrats look a whole lot worse to me.

(Edit: Inb4 "You watch too much Fox". I *actively* avoid Fox, and only learned of the CNN stupidity (which I also avoid CNN!) because of freakin' twitter!)