Hacking Question Atmosphere or SX OS? Both?

[Smoker1]

Historically, SX OS has lacked the brick protection of Atmosphere, and SX OS even had its own bricking code that could be triggered accidentally.

That's kind of messed up they would have that on there, and easily activated.

 

[Lacius]

That's kind of messed up they would have that on there, and easily activated.

It wasn't easy to trigger, but it could be triggered accidentally.

 

[TerraPhantm]

1. Download Atmosphere.
2. Download signature patches.
3. Done.

And what if you want to go a bit beyond the bare minimum? Emunand is a cluster fuck right now even with Hekate making the process a little easier. Signature patches you have to come to this site for and find the thread. Can't blank out your prodinfo without downloading some other patches. To install NSPs you need Tinfoil, Goldleaf, or new Tinfoil. The latter won't work without even more patches.

SX OS is just drag and drop, and play your games without worry about ban right then / there. Don't need a hundred steps, downloads from 10 different sources, partitioning tools that only run in linux, etc.

 

[Smoker1]

And what if you want to go a bit beyond the bare minimum? Emunand is a cluster fuck right now even with Hekate making the process a little easier. Signature patches you have to come to this site for and find the thread. Can't blank out your prodinfo without downloading some other patches. To install NSPs you need Tinfoil, Goldleaf, or new Tinfoil. The latter won't work without even more patches.

SX OS is just drag and drop, and play your games without worry about ban right then / there. Don't need a hundred steps, downloads from 10 different sources, partitioning tools that only run in linux, etc.

That is where some of the Pros/Cons come in.

AMS - NSP Installs (working on XCIs)
SX - XCIs Only (working on NSPs)

 

[TerraPhantm]

That is where some of the Pros/Cons come in.

AMS - NSP Installs (working on XCIs)
SX - XCIs Only (working on NSPs)

You can instal NSPs on SXOS.

Technically out of the box atmosphere doesn't support anything except homebrew. NSPs require sig patches and installers made by others.

 

[Lacius]

Emunand is a cluster fuck right now even with Hekate making the process a little easier.

EmuNAND is easy to setup with Hekate.

Signature patches you have to come to this site for and find the thread.

Signature patches are all over the internet and aren't any more difficult to setup than SX OS, its licensing, etc. ReiNX also comes with them.

Can't blank out your prodinfo without downloading some other patches.

Incognito is not an SX OS feature, and it's easy to do on Atmosphere. ReiNX also doesn't require any extra patches. In addition, not being able to blank out one's proinfo is a method of brick-protection missing from SX OS.

To install NSPs you need Tinfoil, Goldleaf, or new Tinfoil.

SX OS has an NSP-installer that is quite comparable to the DZ Tinfoil.

The latter won't work without even more patches.

That's inaccurate.

SX OS is just drag and drop

SX OS has a setup process too, and it's just as many steps to copy/paste XCI files and run them as it is to install an NSP file over USB using DZ Tinfoil and nut server.

and play your games without worry about ban right then / there.

Plenty of SX OS users have been banned. SX OS still results in a dirty NAND.

Don't need a hundred steps, downloads from 10 different sources

It's about as many steps as SX OS. A gross exaggeration only serves to counter your own point by drawing attention to its inaccuracy.

partitioning tools that only run in linux, etc.

Linux isn't required.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

That is where some of the Pros/Cons come in.

AMS - NSP Installs (working on XCIs)
SX - XCIs Only (working on NSPs)

XCI files work with SX OS, but that's the only substantive difference. NSP files work just as well, if not better.

SX OS can also use NSP files.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

It wasn't easy to trigger, but it could be triggered accidentally.

and how many people on here have posted about it being accidentally triggered, let me guess out of over 100,000+ SX users... the answer is 0 ?

If you want to cut and paste XCI files without needing to install NSP files or you want USB support and you can afford $20 then there is nothing wrong with SX

those 'many ' people who say Sx is not worth the money are mostly from people who have never owned or used it.

 

[TerraPhantm]

EmuNAND is easy to setup with Hekate.

Hekate can't make the partition, you've still got to do that yourself, and Windows doesn't work very well for that.

Signature patches are all over the internet and aren't any more difficult to setup than SX OS, its licensing, etc. ReiNX also comes with them.

Still makes it a more annoying setup process than having everything installed for you. I can do it. I'm not bothering explaining all that shit to someone who isn't as experienced.

Incognito is not an SX OS feature, and it's easy to do on Atmosphere. ReiNX also doesn't require any extra patches. In addition, not being able to blank out one's proinfo is a method of brick-protection missing from SX OS.

I never said it's an SX OS feature or that it's impossible to do on Atmosphere. I said it requires even more external patches, which is fact. I also didn't say anything about ReiNX, which itself is a non-starter due to the lack of emunand.

SX OS has an NSP-installer that is quite comparable to the DZ Tinfoil.

And? The point is that it comes with it. Don't have to download shit from all over the place.

That's inaccurate.

No it's not.

SX OS has a setup process too, and it's just as many steps to copy/paste XCI files and run them as it is to install an NSP file over USB using DZ Tinfoil and nut server.

If you say so. I disagree

Plenty of SX OS users have been banned. SX OS still results in a dirty NAND.

But SX OS comes with easy to setup emunand, and it has protection out of the box. With atmosphere you've either got to remember to setup 90DNS before starting, or use some work arounds to install incognito.

It's about as many steps as SX OS. A gross exaggeration only serves to counter your own point by drawing attention to its inaccuracy.

It's fewer steps for sure, especially if you want to have as close to an equivalent experience as possible.

Linux isn't required.

Addressed above.

 

[8BitWonder]

I'd say use Atmosphere for a while since it's free to use, and if you find later that you would like USB support (is also in the works for Atmosphere) and XCI loading (not coming to Atmosphere) then switch over to SX OS.

 

[Smoker1]

Hell, if I know that, I would have went with SX OS.

 

[Lacius]

and how many people on here have posted about it being accidentally triggered, let me guess out of over 100,000+ SX users... the answer is 0 ?

The brick code wasn't present for very long. When it was discovered, it was an embarrassment for SX OS, and they promptly removed it. While I'm unaware of any cases of it being accidentally triggered, we do know it could have been under rare circumstances.

If you want to cut and paste XCI files without needing to install NSP files or you want USB support and you can afford $20 then there is nothing wrong with SX

If XCI support is worth $20 to a person, then I agree (not counting the moral issues of supporting SX OS with its brick code and stolen code). I should also point out that, like Gateway, SX OS will likely stop offering support once it's no longer profitable to do so.

However, for the vast majority of users, installing an NSP is about as cumbersome as using an XCI file.

those 'many ' people who say Sx is not worth the money are mostly from people who have never owned or used it.

There are SX OS owners who no longer consider SX OS to be worth the money.

Hekate can't make the partition, you've still got to do that yourself, and Windows doesn't work very well for that.

It works just fine on Windows. I also like how you've gone from "it doesn't work on Windows" to "it doesn't work well on Windows." For the record, goalpost-moving doesn't impress me very much.

Still makes it a more annoying setup process than having everything installed for you. I can do it. I'm not bothering explaining all that shit to someone who isn't as experienced.

Again, it's no more difficult than, for example, setting up the SX OS licensing. Downloading Atmosphere, signature patches, and Tinfoil aren't difficult. ReiNX also comes with everything you need, so you're argument is also pointless even if accept that not having to download signature patches and Tinfoil is worth $20 (it's not, in my opinion).

I never said it's an SX OS feature or that it's impossible to do on Atmosphere. I said it requires even more external patches, which is fact. I also didn't say anything about ReiNX, which itself is a non-starter due to the lack of emunand.

It's not an inconvenience to setup Incognito with Atmosphere, and I don't think leaving my prodinfo vulnerable is worth $20. You couldn't pay me $20 to leave it vulnerable.

We also weren't talking about emuNAND, so it's completely relevant to mention that Incognito works just fine with ReiNX. It's also going to get emuNAND in the not-so-distant future, not that it matters to the conversation.

And? The point is that it comes with it. Don't have to download shit from all over the place.

My argument is it's not worth $20 to not have to download Tinfoil.

No it's not.

The extra patches that come with DZ Tinfoil are not required to use Tinfoil, assuming that's what you're referring to (your post was ambiguous). Also, since your concern is how many things you have to download and from where, it's irrelevant when those unneeded patches come with Tinfoil.

If you say so. I disagree

We can objectively count the steps. The steps of copy/pasting the XCI files and launching the XCI menu are comparable to the number of steps needed to install NSP files using Tinfoil. It's not a matter of whether or not you agree. You're wrong.

But SX OS comes with easy to setup emunand

The Atmosphere emuNAND is easy to setup, and the SX OS emuNAND is not worth $20. They're functionally identical, given you can switch between Atmosphere and SX OS using the same emuNAND.

and it has protection out of the box.

Atmosphere has more protection than SX OS. Refer to our conversation about Incognito.

With atmosphere you've either got to remember to setup 90DNS before starting, or use some work arounds to install incognito.

With SX OS, you're paying to use what's functionally 90DNS.

It's fewer steps for sure, especially if you want to have as close to an equivalent experience as possible.

It's a comparable number of steps, objectively. I also like the continued goalpost-moving, going from "100 steps" to "more steps."

Addressed above.

Not very well.

Respectfully, I think I've said my peace. You're free to say your peace, of course, but I'm not interested in getting into a long(er) back and forth on this. My point was just about everything SX OS can do can be done on Atmosphere for free in a comparable number of steps, and that makes it not worth the price in my opinion. In addition, there's a decent chance SX OS won't be supported for as long as Atmosphere, and there are also some significant moral issues in paying to use SX OS.

Also, when did people on GBATemp find the setup of CFW to no longer be fun?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Hell, if I know that, I would have went with SX OS.

If you knew what?

 

[Smoker1]

If I knew SX OS also allowed for NSP Install. All the Readings I read are all saying they are working on it. But SX OS can take the Base, Update, and DLCs and run them in 1 XCI.

 

[8BitWonder]

The brick code wasn't present for very long. When it was discovered, it was an embarrassment for SX OS, and they promptly removed it. While I'm unaware of any cases of it being accidentally triggered, we do know it could have been under rare circumstances.
...

Fun tid-bit about that; It wasn't removed, only stubbed.

On a more serious note, AFAICT the SX OS brick code has indeed been stubbed. The "WANNA PLAY :)" password is still generated and the code is still there, but now instead of trying to lock the eMMC it will just get stuck on a loop.

— Mike Heskin (@hexkyz) July 4, 2018

 

[TerraPhantm]

I'm not going to reply line by line again, as you noted, it's a waste of time.

It's a comparable number of steps, objectively. I also like the continued goalpost-moving, going from "100 steps" to "more steps."

You realize not all speech is literal, right? The point is it's a more cumbersome process.

Respectfully, I think I've said my peace. You're free to say your peace, of course, but I'm not interested in getting into a long(er) back and forth on this. My point was just about everything SX OS can do can be done on Atmosphere for free in a comparable number of steps, and that makes it not worth the price in my opinion. In addition, there's a decent chance SX OS won't be supported for as long as Atmosphere, and there are also some significant moral issues in paying to use SX OS.

The thing is, it is more steps whether or not you want to count it that way, and perhaps more importantly - things are really poorly documented. Most of the documentation has been made by other end users, the atmosphere devs themselves can't be bothered, and will in fact ban you from their server for wanting to do what all of us actually use CFW for.

I run atmosphere because I'm a cheap bastard when it comes to these things. But SXOS is by far the more user friendly solution, and that likely won't change until the Switch is near EOL.

 

[Lacius]

I'm not going to reply line by line again, as you noted, it's a waste of time.

You realize not all speech is literal, right? The point is it's a more cumbersome process.


The thing is, it is more steps whether or not you want to count it that way, and perhaps more importantly - things are really poorly documented. Most of the documentation has been made by other end users, the atmosphere devs themselves can't be bothered, and will in fact ban you from their server for wanting to do what all of us actually use CFW for.

I run atmosphere because I'm a cheap bastard when it comes to these things. But SXOS is by far the more user friendly solution, and that likely won't change until the Switch is near EOL.

ReiNX is pretty user friendly, minus the current lack of emuNAND.

 

[gizmomelb]

1. Download Atmosphere.
2. Download signature patches.
3. Done.

except as we have discussed many, many times before and looking at the amount of support threads, it is not that simple (especially when upgrading) and lots of people cannot do it.. I wish I could find your (Lacius) post about how users so technically incompetent should not be using CFW.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I think I originally posted this back in about February 2019.. the only thing that appears to have changed is emuNAND / emuMMC support has been added to atmos.

if you want to be able to play XCI files direct from a USB device, or you want to install NSP files direct from a USB device (I took a 4TB USB HDD with me on a cruise back in March and would pick and choose from the XCI games on the USB HDD and INSTALL the games I wanted to play while sitting beside the pool - you do not need to have the USB HDD attached as some idiots always try to make out). The SX OS is the only option that has USB and XCI support.

If you want to overclock or emulate amiibo figurines in games, then choose atmosphere. There aren't any other differences.

SX OS:

Pros:
XCI files - can mount and play XCI files direct from USB (no need to copy to SD card)
- No need to install each game, just mount and they run - just like inserting a cartridge.
- XCI files do not install tickets so *POTENTIALLY* are not as detectable as NSP files.
USB storage - NSP files can be installed to SD card direct from USB storage, no need for PC. Useful on long journeys.

EmuEMMC / emuNAND - makes it potentially possible to dodge a banned console due to no records kept in system NAND (online play under emuNAND not recommended however).
- different official firmware versions can be installed in system and emuNAND (no fuses are burned)

Cons:
Official software support is usually a couple of weeks after the update comes out.
Costs money - about the same price as a 200GB SD card for the jig, the dongle and the SX OS licence.
- about the same price as a 128GB SD card for just the SX OS licence.
Cannot use KIPs advanced features - like custom kernel modules (Overclocking module, etc)
MUST use the jig and payload injector on every cold boot (personally, if you're powering off completely regularly then why?).


Free CFW:

Pros:
Official firmware 8.0 support usually added just a few days after it is released.
No cost - just the included cost of your SD card for it to be installed on.
Can use KIPs advanced features - like custom kernel modules (Overclocking module, etc).
Can boot into CFW from Auto RCM - please note that auto-RCM has been extensively discussed as being potentially detectable by Nintendo and thus a bannable 'offence'.

Cons:
No XCI mounting.
No USB storage.
No emuEMMC / emuNAND.

Keep in mind that BOTH options allow installing of NSP titles to SD card and systemNAND (or emuNAND if using SX OS) via USB cable and NUT or SX server.
Both systems allow use of homebrew and backing up save games to alternate computers / storage for safe keeping.


The age old question - which CFW should I use?

Look at the pros and con feature lists and see which features are must have items for you.

So *IS* SX OS worth purchasing RIGHT NOW?
Both free CFW and SX OS have 8.0 support, so decide on which features you want and whether the cost is worth it TO YOU.

 

[Lacius]

except as we have discussed many, many times before and looking at the amount of support threads, it is not that simple (especially when upgrading) and lots of people cannot do it.. I wish I could find your (Lacius) post about how users so technically incompetent should not be using CFW.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I think I originally posted this back in about February 2019.. the only thing that appears to have changed is emuNAND / emuMMC support has been added to atmos.

if you want to be able to play XCI files direct from a USB device, or you want to install NSP files direct from a USB device (I took a 4TB USB HDD with me on a cruise back in March and would pick and choose from the XCI games on the USB HDD and INSTALL the games I wanted to play while sitting beside the pool - you do not need to have the USB HDD attached as some idiots always try to make out). The SX OS is the only option that has USB and XCI support.

If you want to overclock or emulate amiibo figurines in games, then choose atmosphere. There aren't any other differences.

SX OS:

Pros:
XCI files - can mount and play XCI files direct from USB (no need to copy to SD card)
- No need to install each game, just mount and they run - just like inserting a cartridge.
- XCI files do not install tickets so *POTENTIALLY* are not as detectable as NSP files.
USB storage - NSP files can be installed to SD card direct from USB storage, no need for PC. Useful on long journeys.

EmuEMMC / emuNAND - makes it potentially possible to dodge a banned console due to no records kept in system NAND (online play under emuNAND not recommended however).
- different official firmware versions can be installed in system and emuNAND (no fuses are burned)

Cons:
Official software support is usually a couple of weeks after the update comes out.
Costs money - about the same price as a 200GB SD card for the jig, the dongle and the SX OS licence.
- about the same price as a 128GB SD card for just the SX OS licence.
Cannot use KIPs advanced features - like custom kernel modules (Overclocking module, etc)
MUST use the jig and payload injector on every cold boot (personally, if you're powering off completely regularly then why?).


Free CFW:

Pros:
Official firmware 8.0 support usually added just a few days after it is released.
No cost - just the included cost of your SD card for it to be installed on.
Can use KIPs advanced features - like custom kernel modules (Overclocking module, etc).
Can boot into CFW from Auto RCM - please note that auto-RCM has been extensively discussed as being potentially detectable by Nintendo and thus a bannable 'offence'.

Cons:
No XCI mounting.
No USB storage.
No emuEMMC / emuNAND.

Keep in mind that BOTH options allow installing of NSP titles to SD card and systemNAND (or emuNAND if using SX OS) via USB cable and NUT or SX server.
Both systems allow use of homebrew and backing up save games to alternate computers / storage for safe keeping.


The age old question - which CFW should I use?

Look at the pros and con feature lists and see which features are must have items for you.

So *IS* SX OS worth purchasing RIGHT NOW?
Both free CFW and SX OS have 8.0 support, so decide on which features you want and whether the cost is worth it TO YOU.

Please don't pretend like there aren't SX OS help threads, especially when upgrading.

 

[gizmomelb]

The brick code wasn't present for very long. When it was discovered, it was an embarrassment for SX OS, and they promptly removed it. While I'm unaware of any cases of it being accidentally triggered, we do know it could have been under rare circumstances.

ahh we're back to Lacius's "it might or it might not" arguments again are we? The king fence sitter has returned!! It was so quiet around here for months without the constant whine being generated on the forums.

There are SX OS owners who no longer consider SX OS to be worth the money.

I can think of one most public person - Nachuz - and they cracked it because when the switch goes into sleep mode it turns off the USB port and thus and XCI file loaded from a USB HDD is auto ejected.

The Atmosphere emuNAND is easy to setup, and the SX OS emuNAND is not worth $20. They're functionally identical, given you can switch between Atmosphere and SX OS using the same emuNAND.

Again, see how many help threads there are regarding emuMMC setup on atmosphere - with SX OS it has always been just press a button in the options menu in the CFW and it was all done for you. It has been THAT EASY since oh.. I think September 2018 when the emuNAND function was added to SX OS. For people that wanted emuNAND there was NO OPTION besides SX OS until June / July 2019 when atmos added it. My OFW on my switch is still 3.0.2 and my emuNAND under SX OS is 8.1

Atmosphere has more protection than SX OS. Refer to our conversation about Incognito.

Incognito was developer by Blawar and required usage of SX OS or Reinx because atmos blocked writing to CAL0 - see the first post of the release here for actual information instead of conjecture - https://gbatemp.net/threads/incognito.531924/

If you were running SX OS (especially back in February, when Incognito was released) you would use it on your emuNAND as extra protection for not getting your OFW switch banned online.

With SX OS, you're paying to use what's functionally 90DNS.

Which is what lots of other CFW users were using and are still using to avoid online bans.. so I'm not grokking what your point (if any at all) is supposed to be.

I look forward to much more infantile backwards and forwards presentation of your ''facts'' and fence sitting comments.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Please don't pretend like there aren't SX OS help threads, especially when upgrading.

I'm not, but there are a magnitude less help threads for SX OS than atmos and most of the help threads have been solved with SX OS with the user being told to re-download the newer boot.dat from the SX website and that has fixed their issue (where they have usually mistakenly updated the firmware and then older SX OS boot.dat didn't work.. who would have thunk it hey?)

 

[Lacius]

ahh we're back to Lacius's "it might or it might not" arguments again are we?

There was objectively brick code that could have been triggered accidentally. I don't know what else you want me to say. That there wasn't brick code?

The king fence sitter has returned!! It was so quiet around here for months without the constant whine being generated on the forums.

You seem to be taking this personally. I hope you don't think this kind of catty comment is at all appropriate or impressive. Petty insults only serve as distractions, and it's often meant as a distraction from a bad argument.

I can think of one most public person - Nachuz - and they cracked it because when the switch goes into sleep mode it turns off the USB port and thus and XCI file loaded from a USB HDD is auto ejected.

There are more than one.

Again, see how many help threads there are regarding emuMMC setup on atmosphere - with SX OS it has always been just press a button in the options menu in the CFW and it was all done for you. It has been THAT EASY since oh.. I think September 2018 when the emuNAND function was added to SX OS. For people that wanted emuNAND there was NO OPTION besides SX OS until June / July 2019 when atmos added it.

Yes, SX OS used to be the only CFW with emuNAND, but that's no longer the case. For someone who wanted to play online with a hacked Switch, emuNAND was arguably the only thing worth the money (in my opinion). But, since that's no longer the case, I don't see anything that's worth the price tag anymore.

My OFW on my switch is still 3.0.2 and my emuNAND under SX OS is 8.1

And my 8.1.0 Switch is downgradable to 3.0.0, but I never used SX OS.

Incognito was developer by Blawar and required usage of SX OS or Reinx because atmos blocked writing to CAL0 - see the first post of the release here for actual information instead of conjecture - https://gbatemp.net/threads/incognito.531924/

If you were running SX OS (especially back in February, when Incognito was released) you would use it on your emuNAND as extra protection for not getting your OFW switch banned online.

There was no "conjecture" in any of my posts about Incognito: only facts about how it works. I'm not sure why you're pasting a link to the Incognito thread and telling me things I already know.

Which is what lots of other CFW users were using and are still using to avoid online bans.. so I'm not grokking what your point (if any at all) is supposed to be.

The point is that with SX OS, you're paying to use things that are available for free and very easily accessible (e.g. 90DNS). Please keep up if you're going to reply to my posts. I'm less likely to respond if I have to repeat myself.

I look forward to much more infantile backwards and forwards presentation of your ''facts'' and fence sitting comments.

See above for my thoughts on petty quips that lack any real substance. You're unlikely to build a lot of positive relationships here or contribute to the community with this kind of attitude. I don't know why you're behaving as though I'm attacking you personally. The best word I can think of to describe it is "odd."

I'm not, but there are a magnitude less help threads for SX OS than atmos and most of the help threads have been solved with SX OS with the user being told to re-download the newer boot.dat from the SX website and that has fixed their issue (where they have usually mistakenly updated the firmware and then older SX OS boot.dat didn't work.. who would have thunk it hey?)

A good number of Atmosphere posts are solved by telling a person to download the latest version of something. The same goes for a good number of SX OS posts. And Luma3DS posts. That's how these things work, and if anything, it's a testament to how comparable the Switch custom firmwares are when it comes to ease of use.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

Please don't pretend like there aren't SX OS help threads, especially when upgrading.

and the answer to upgrading is simple in nearly all cases, download the latest version of boot.dat and paste it to your sdcard.