Hacking Discussion Team Xecuter Attempted to Bribe RetroNX Developers

[Ev1l0rd]

Nobody seems to believe it but if I were part of Team Xecuter I'd have no problem revealing it. I've known members going back to their inception but never actually got involved. I was too busy running PSX-SCENE during the PS3 era (Fun Fact: I never owned a PS3) and never really got into the 360 scene. My 360 is still embarrassingly un-modded. I'm mostly interested in retro gaming now, which is how I ended up in this debacle to begin with.

I didn't accuse you of being a spokesperson of TX. Sorry if it seemed construed that way, I'm just noting that libretro thought the mail came from TX, which my response was aiming at.

 

[jester_]

I didn't accuse you of being a spokesperson of TX. Sorry if it seemed construed that way, I'm just noting that libretro thought the mail came from TX, which my response was aiming at.

Yeah, I poked some friends today to try and get any additional actual facts, and it sounds like TX was *never* in contact with Daniel/TwinAphex/Squarepusher (RA account here), only with m4x (and they don't intend to EVER publish any more logs. To TX, this is over I think?)

Out of courtesy for one of your leaders, I retracted it, since he was angrily e-mailing me about it. If you decide to keep this going, that is on you guys.

^ THIS is the real slander/baseless accusation. Pathetic to pretend the higher-ups in TX are begging him to remove a post, when really it was just xiaNaix trying to put out this dumpster fire (I didn't learn that until recently)




... wait, holy shit. I have just admitted to being a TX-bashing TX shill with connections to TX!!!

 

[guitarheroknight]

You... know i was kidding, right? But tell me, how do you know TX is telling the truth, and m4x is lying about the reason he backed out? I havent seen any of the fabled 'proof' that he is lying about the reason being them wanting him to use licensed code.

TX is far from innocent. They have proven almost with every update that they "borrow" code and do some shady stuff, but that's not the point. If you were to accuse TX of bribing or whatnot the best course of action would be to first prove yourself innocent - for whatever innocent means in this case.

 

[DiscostewSM]

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

^ THIS is the real slander/baseless accusation. Pathetic to pretend the higher-ups in TX are begging him to remove a post, when really it was just xiaNaix trying to put out this dumpster fire (I didn't learn that until recently)

I never pretended it was anything otherwise. I have no issues with xiaNaix either at this current point in time.

And yes, that is correct, I never talked to anybody from Team Xecuter (except for xiaNaix whom keeps saying he is not involved so I'll take him at his word), only m4xw did, and I prefer to keep a safe distance from these kind of groups to begin with - for reasons I have outlined before and don't wish to repeat. I stick to homebrew software and I don't concern myself with hardware hacking or anything of that nature. That is a clear line in the sand I draw from a legal and moral perspective. Even if these people had contacted me, I would have never responded or collaborated with them on this subject to begin with.

The only reason frankly I engaged in the dialogue with xiaNaix is that I don't remember him acting in bad faith towards me nearly 8+ years ago back in different times. I hope I am not making a mistake in that character assessment, but I'm willing to take a chance there. I don't agree with him in his assessment of m4xw, but I will at least agree with him that the time has come to end this back-and-forth thread here at least. Everybody is getting pretty fed up with it, and the bystanders that insert themselves in the mix frankly are not helping this situation along.

As far as I am concerned, this conversation is done now, and you got most of the context you wanted from me. Even if you feel otherwise, I feel that it would be a waste of everybody's time to keep hashing this out much further.

Let it be clear - I stand fully behind m4xw on everything he said. I am very grateful for the work he did on RetroArch Switch, and I very much appreciate that RetroArch Switch has been released now in fully fleshed out form without it being locked behind anybody's paywall.

 

[gizmomelb]

ok so theoretically.. could TX officially licence / integrate RA into their CFW as long as it didn't lock out running the homebrew standalone versions of RA?

 

[TheZander]

ok so theoretically.. could TX officially licence / integrate RA into their CFW as long as it didn't lock out running the homebrew standalone versions of RA?

i think part of the stipulations of that license thing is that they produce the code, but i could be wrong because I dont know anything about stuff

 

[jester_]

ok so theoretically.. could TX officially licence / integrate RA into their CFW as long as it didn't lock out running the homebrew standalone versions of RA?

They would have to distribute the source code for the app, which could then be stripped of it's SX OS dependencies and made to run on any CFW. TX intended to keep it closed source and obfuscated, and only able to run on SX OS, from what I gather from public statements.

I never pretended it was anything otherwise. I have no issues with xiaNaix either at this current point in time.

And yes, that is correct, I never talked to anybody from Team Xecuter (except for xiaNaix whom keeps saying he is not involved so I'll take him at his word), only m4xw did, and I prefer to keep a safe distance from these kind of groups to begin with - for reasons I have outlined before and don't wish to repeat. I stick to homebrew software and I don't concern myself with hardware hacking or anything of that nature. That is a clear line in the sand I draw from a legal and moral perspective. Even if these people had contacted me, I would have never responded or collaborated with them on this subject to begin with.

The only reason frankly I engaged in the dialogue with xiaNaix is that I don't remember him acting in bad faith towards me nearly 8+ years ago back in different times. I hope I am not making a mistake in that character assessment, but I'm willing to take a chance there. I don't agree with him in his assessment of m4xw, but I will at least agree with him that the time has come to end this back-and-forth thread here at least. Everybody is getting pretty fed up with it, and the bystanders that insert themselves in the mix frankly are not helping this situation along.

As far as I am concerned, this conversation is done now, and you got most of the context you wanted from me. Even if you feel otherwise, I feel that it would be a waste of everybody's time to keep hashing this out much further.

Thank you, understandable. Do you intend to leave the tweet up, without modification/clarification? In my honest opinion, the wording and lack of details are what caused such extreme levels of drama. m4x can't play the victim, my man. As I said before, it takes two to tango.

"TX approached m4x to try and recruit him as a developer for $6000. It didn't work out, and we merged his project with RA instead!" = probably a better look

 

[Beware]

Except that isn't quite what happened since upstreaming was always the end goal of RetroNX.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

They would have to distribute the source code for the app, which could then be stripped of it's SX OS dependencies and made to run on any CFW. TX intended to keep it closed source and obfuscated, and only able to run on SX OS, from what I gather from public statements.


Thank you, understandable. Do you intend to leave the tweet up, without modification/clarification? In my honest opinion, the wording and lack of details are what caused such extreme levels of drama. m4x can't play the victim, my man. As I said before, it takes two to tango.

"TX approached m4x to try and recruit him as a developer for $6000. It didn't work out, and we merged his project with RA instead!" = probably a better look

And how would that wording change in any way what happened? It's still the exact same thing that was done, or at the very least attempted. If this version was meant to be paywalled and locked as some kind of 'exclusive', that would have been a big loss to our project, if some GL-enabled version of RetroArch Switch gets its first 'exclusive' release on some piece of proprietary hardware/OS you need some kind of modchip for. I definitely would have resented that, and it would have definitely further demoralized our project. So I see no reason to modify the wording of that statement when as far as I can see, the initial description is pretty much accurate - it would have been to the detraction of our project in favor of their own. I regard it as an unfriendly hostile act at least on the part of TX. There is no real way to turn whatever they did (or attempted to do at least) into a positive there.

Anyway, we both agreed to stop this now. So let's stop it. This is just leading us back to Square One instead.

 

[jester_]

Except that isn't quite what happened since upstreaming was always the end goal of RetroNX.

"Always" = until offered an end goal much more lucrative, it would seem. Honestly, did you read the *entire thread* like the rest of us?

If this version was meant to be paywalled and locked as some kind of 'exclusive', that would have been a big loss to our project, if some GL-enabled version of RetroArch gets its first 'exclusive' release on some piece of proprietary hardware/OS you need some kind of modchip for. I definitely would have resented that

I understand and agree completely. I was just curious.

 

[BuriA]

tx haters coz they can't use the awesome switch os for free.

 

[jester_]

"TX approached m4x to try and recruit him as a developer for $6000. It didn't work out, and we merged his project with RA instead!" = probably a better look

And how would that wording change in any way what happened?

I swear I'll stop tagging/quoting you, but this just clicked with me. You're saying that my suggested wording is equally as accurate as the initial tweet? I'll be damned. Good shit, thank you for deescalating. I wasn't suggesting you remove/repost an edited tweet. Like I said, I was just curious about your intentions after seeing the aftermath of this ordeal.

Hindsight, though. I get it.

-

There is no real way to turn whatever they did (or attempted to do at least) into a positive there.

Yeah for sure, I truly never intended to spin it that way. If the deal succeeded, the community would absolutely be negatively impacted in a major way. My posts over the last ~8 pages were truly only intended to hammer home the fact that with a "deal" even being a possible outcome means that m4x was on board for a time... (weeks/months, it would appear). On the real, his line about "it was a prank bro to show how terrible they are lol" is disingenuous horse shit, and m4x and TX know that for sure.

It is a good thing for the scene that things unfolded the way they did (excluding the ~50 pages here, countless tweets, reddit posts, etc. bathing in the drama of it all [yes, I am guilty too])

 

[bi388]

tx haters coz they can't use the awesome switch os for free.

yeah i dont think thats why... if you have a switch then you have more than enough to spend 25 on sxos. if someone is using reinx, they clearly feel that sxos isnt worth the cost.

 

[omegasoul6]

I think it's safe to say keeping this thread open isn't doing any good anymore, both parties made it clear that they're done with this, so whatever they've already posted is what we're going to get.

 

[Beware]

"Always" = until offered an end goal much more lucrative, it would seem. Honestly, did you read the *entire thread* like the rest of us?

The idiocy of this community never ends. I've mentioned this before, but $6000 is truly not that lucrative considering the degree and amount of effort put into this. I posted multiple times commenting on how small peanuts that number is compared to what professional devs (you know, like M4X) get paid for their time. It's also been made painfully obvious that libretro could never have even met that offer, let alone surpassed it. I've been involved in this for a longer period of time and at a deeper level than anyone posting in this thread other than the RA devs themselves. There was no "change of plans." LibRetro didn't swoop down and save RA from an SX-locked fate.

Can you imagine? "Hey m4x, I know you've been offered $6000 from TX and $3000+ from other randos, but you should really consider siding with us instead. We can offer you no money and have no capacity for taking legal action against you taking that offer, but you can feel like a real pompous ass instead!"

Does anyone in this thread actually think about the BS they're spewing?

 

[jester_]

I've been in
volved in this for a longer period of time and at a deeper level than anyone posting in this thread other than the RA devs themselves.

Oh fuck off, you've no clue who this is behind my account right now, or other random names in this thread you might not recognize. It's GBATemp, not LinkedIn

There was no "change of plans." LibRetro didn't swoop down and save RA from an SX-locked fate.

Can you imagine? "Hey m4x, I know you've been offered $6000 from TX and $3000+ from other randos, but you should really consider siding with us instead. We can offer you no money and have no capacity for taking legal action against you taking that offer, but you can feel like a real pompous ass instead!"

Quote me ONE TIME showing that I believed that line about libretro trying to out-bid. I said garyopa made a drunken ass of himself. I never once tried to quote/reference/defend gary's FUD. I never once tried to say TX is in the right; at all.

Shove your straw men up your ass dude. Everyone just hammered things out, and you had to come in swinging like a fucking WORLDSTAR video. Go home.

 

[jester_]

$6000 is truly not that lucrative considering the degree and amount of effort put into this.

We'd be looking at an upcoming release of "RetroSX," shaking our fists if TX dug a little deeper into their pockets and offered m4xw $9-10k + small % on future sales. I guarantee he would have found a way around all these morals that suddenly popped up after months of secret conversations with TX

I brought up 4 hours ago that $6k isn't enough for the job... are you gonna tell me $10k upon delivery with residuals would be a bad deal? TX could have been less stingy and had this go through. We are lucky they were being cheap, in my opinion! I've heard tell of offers much higher from TX, where they delivered exactly as promised.

It's just a matter of if you are willing to sell your soul to the boogeyman!

 

[xiaNaix]

I've been involved in this for a longer period of time and at a deeper level than anyone posting in this thread other than the RA devs themselves.

Yeah? What BBS boards would I know you from back in the Amiga/Atari ST and SNES scenes?

 

[TheZander]

It's startling the amount of noobs in this thread. I'd like to see a show of hands anyone here that was involved in the original pong hacking scene. Or the homebrew nintendo trading card scene back in the 1800s. Anybody recall the "double-ply hardstock paper-sploit hax"?