Hacking Discussion Nintendo banning from CDN

[ByteBite]

Can't say I'm surprised. Nintendo had the means to do this and people started poking the hornet's nest.

This also means we'll be getting an incremental firmware soon, no doubt.

 

[MasterJ360]

But why are people using freeshop? Are they really so lazy they don't want to take 5 mins and find update/dlc nsp on rom site?

It seemed to benefit banned users more b/c at the time they didn't have anything to lose or risk, but the abuse created a backlash.

 

[Kioku]

Do you realize that, until a few hours ago, SX OS was the only way to play pirated content on Switch, right?

Think very slowly and deeply about it. Of the people who installed pirated NSPs, how many of them used SX OS?

The last bit isn't even relevant as (you said it) SX was currently the only way to play installed NSP files. Do you really think it'd have been different if Atmosphere or ReiNX were first?

 

[reyyesrey]

Is it legal for Nintendo to prevent users from having access to system updates?
I'm not clear on what is or isn't ok for them to do even if the user hacked their console.

Yup, it's legal. If you break their user agreement, you agree to forfeiting all rights.

 

[LightOffPro]

But why are people using freeshop? Are they really so lazy they don't want to take 5 mins and find update/dlc nsp on rom site?

Convenience.

Is it legal for Nintendo to prevent users from having access to system updates?
I'm not clear on what is or isn't ok for them to do even if the user hacked their console.

Technically yep, it is legal since you broke their terms of service.
But highly frowned upon doing this. Let's say what i legitimately buy LA Noire, an incomplete game out of the box that needs the update to be complete, what then? To whom will i exercise my consumer rights?

 

[011.guilherme]

Technically yep, it is legal since you broke their terms of service.
But highly frowned upon doing this. Let's say what i legitimately buy LA Noire, an incomplete game out of the box that needs the update to be complete, what then? To whom will i exercise my consumer rights?

Yeah, I think we need some clearance on if and where the terms of service crosses the line between security measures and consumer rights.
For some reason I think this case is not quite black and white, but I can't really point it out

 

[zaku]

Even if it does what you gonna do take N to court?

 

[V-Temp]

Yeah, I think we need some clearance on if and where the terms of service crosses the line between security measures and consumer rights.
For some reason I think this case is not quite black and white, but I can't really point it out

You're stealing from their servers, you've forfeited any users rights. Criminal behavior isn't a consumer right.

 

[011.guilherme]

You're stealing from their servers, you've forfeited any users rights. Criminal behavior isn't a consumer right.

I didn't do anything.

What I mean is, they haven't the right to render their product useless in any capacity even if you've broke the agreement.
Banning from CDN doesn't really brick the system, but prevents you from updating your console and playing future games, for instance.

There's also the case for games such as LA Noire as @LightOffPro mentioned above.

 

[Naridar]

Is updating XCI games confirmed to trigger this sort of ban?

 

[V-Temp]

I didn't do anything.

What I mean is, they haven't the right to render their product useless in any capacity even if you've broke the agreement.
Banning from CDN doesn't really brick the system, but prevents you from updating your console and playing future games, for instance.

There's also the case for games such as LA Noire as @LightOffPro mentioned above.

But you forfeited that right when you stole, consumer protection doesn't work when you break the law. The you was general, not you you.

 

[FAST6191]

Is it legal for Nintendo to prevent users from having access to system updates?
I'm not clear on what is or isn't ok for them to do even if the user hacked their console.

Leaving aside matters of jurisdiction I am sure we could throw legal concepts, acts/statutes, rulings and such around all day if we wanted and get nowhere particularly fast. I tend to find members of the public and forum goers alike both vastly underestimate their rights at the same time as vastly overestimating their rights on other aspects but that is not saying much.

If however a game carries the update level necessary and later updates can still play older games you are not denying anybody the chance to play a game (which would likely fall "under fitness for purpose" parts of consumer/sales law). You would be under no obligation however to provide them access to online services (it is a private network offering a luxury service after all) during that, especially not if they tried to defraud you first, and updates are part of that.

There are some finer points and potentially tricky areas but things you pose are not terribly clear cut.

But highly frowned upon doing this. Let's say what i legitimately buy LA Noire, an incomplete game out of the box that needs the update to be complete, what then? To whom will i exercise my consumer rights?

The shop you got it from (or possibly your credit card company if the game cost over the limit). They would have sold you an incomplete/unworkable item. This could apply to people without an internet connection as well (assuming the box/sales people did not say you need an internet connection first).

 

[011.guilherme]

The you was general, not you you.

I know, I was messing.

But you forfeited that right when you stole, consumer protection doesn't work when you break the law.

So, this sort of ban happens only if you acces the CDN illegaly?

 

[SciresM]

Nintendo is starting to ban certs from CDN access. This will make your console useless for downloading games, updates for your games, dlc, and sysupdates. Please be cautious when using anything that access the CDN i.e. FreeShopNX, CDNSP, etc. You've been warned.

Edit: Here is some proof even Sysupdates are blocked: https://streamable.com/k623d

Dunno why this surprises people...I wrote a technical post last year saying exactly this would happen: https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchHacks/comments/759myu/the_eshop_and_cdn_explained_switch_edition/

Please keep in mind, especially if you've been misbehaving -- Nintendo can tell who is downloading what.

 

[FAST6191]

So, this sort of ban happens only if you acces the CDN illegaly?

Right now it does. Nothing would stop them from doing it for the simple mod detection bans as well other than their own self interest in having people potentially buy a few more games, DLC or something.

 

[ByteBite]

From the Nintendo Account User Agreement:

13. Breach and Termination of the Agreement; Changes to the Agreement

Nintendo may terminate this Agreement, or any part of it, if you fail to comply with its terms. Nintendo may also terminate all or a portion of this Agreement, at any time, for legal, technical or commercial reasons. Upon any such termination, you must immediately stop using the Nintendo Account Services.

You may terminate this Agreement by deleting your Nintendo Account and discontinuing use of the Nintendo Account Services. If you initiate deletion of your Nintendo Account, or if we suspend, ban and/or delete your Nintendo Account for any reason, access to some or all of the Nintendo Account Services may be lost, and any accounts associated with your Nintendo Account may be suspended or deleted.

(emphasis mine)

I don't make the rules but that looks pretty clear to me. You can always contact a lawyer and have them take a look at this if you're interested in a class action lawsuit.

 

[011.guilherme]

Leaving aside matters of jurisdiction I am sure we could throw legal concepts, acts/statutes, rulings and such around all day if we wanted and get nowhere particularly fast. I tend to find members of the public and forum goers alike both vastly underestimate their rights at the same time as vastly overestimating their rights on other aspects but that is not saying much.

If however a game carries the update level necessary and later updates can still play older games you are not denying anybody the chance to play a game (which would likely fall "under fitness for purpose" parts of consumer/sales law). You would be under no obligation however to provide them access to online services (it is a private network offering a luxury service after all) during that, especially not if they tried to defraud you first, and updates are part of that.

There are some finer points and potentially tricky areas but things you pose are not terribly clear cut.


The shop you got it from (or possibly your credit card company if the game cost over the limit). They would have sold you an incomplete/unworkable item. This could apply to people without an internet connection as well (assuming the box/sales people did not say you need an internet connection first).

Well, I guess this clears it. Thanks for your input

 

[the_randomizer]

What did people expect, for Nintendo to be lenient?

 

[Rahkeesh]

What did people expect, for Nintendo to be lenient?

More like continuing their past incompetence.

 

[LuigiBlood]

People want to sue Nintendo because they didn't allow downloads from their servers outside of a Switch for what is obviously piracy purposes? Gee, you guys are on a new level.

Also indeed, SciresM warned about this a while ago. Glad you are following his warnings.