If you haven't heard of Wonder before, don't worry, neither have I!

This cryptic new device comes from a secretive tech startup of the same name based in Los Angeles. Unlike gaming smartphones like the Red Magic or the Black Shark or even the Android-powered OUYA home console, the Wonder plans to be something different, somewhat bridging the two...

Their eventual product will consist of a smartphone, dock, controller, and access to software services that will allow access to games and other media features. What about the Nintendo Switch competitor part? That has to do, as you might have guessed, with the dock. The latter will allow gamers to enjoy their game on big screens by placing the smartphone into the dedicated slot on the controller. While Android-based, the smartphone will run a custom version, called WonderOS, allowing the company to overclock the phone’s graphics processor to beam the display to a television when docked, à la Nintendo Switch.

The Verge had an exclusive first look at a prototype of the device and described it as "what looks like a standard Android smartphone [...], sleek, square cornered, and sports a massive screen". Unfortunately, no pictures were available at the time of writing.

The company has quite the ambitious vision for its product, hoping that the Wonder device "will be the centerpiece of an entertainment ecosystem for gamers and gadget heads who are fans of forward-looking tech".

However, with all that has been revealed, there is still a lot of information missing about this ambitious device. For one, it does not even have an official name. No news about the device's and services' cost whatsoever nor did they reveal the specs of the phone itself. What we do know is that Wonder is on track to come out next year.

Andy Kleinman, the CEO and co-founder of secretive startup Wonder, further adds that the phone might not even be developed and branded by Wonder either. “We’re talking with companies that are making high-end flagships about putting out software on them, similar to Roku,” he says, speaking to The Verge. “It’s more like an OS, which is why we can’t say that anyone with a smartphone can do this. There are still ways that we can have other devices be Wonder-enabled and there are certain threshold of specs that you have to have.”

“The Switch did a really good job starting with the idea of portability, but there’s a lot of limitations on the Switch,” he says. "With Wonder, think about building a portable gaming and entertainment type platform that can deliver any type of game.”

Kleinman says further added that his team has been in talks with Valve about Steam support and game streaming. With the recent announcement of the upcoming Steam Link app which will allow gamers to stream their Steam library games to any smarthphone running the app, this might entice a wider audience. In the interview with The Verge, Kleinman said that his team is in talks with game developers about making Wonder-optimized versions of console and PC titles that run on Android and support both controller and touchscreen play.

As such, rather than being an actual hardware, Wonder aims to build a mobile-console hybrid gaming ecosystem that is potentially not restricted to one hardware manufacturer but available to Wonder-ready devices that suits the user's needs and unleash further power with its peripherals.

“What we’re doing is not super hard. We’re not trying to create Magic Leap-style revolutionary tech nobody has ever seen,” Kleinman says confidently. “We’re just trying to put together a great experience, in the way Apple does it.”

I wonder... is it reminiscent to the OUYA to you or do you think that the time has come for a true Android-based home console-handheld hybrid?

SOURCE

 

[Foxi4]

Neither does the Switch, relatively to what actual home consoles offer today. That's almost an inherent principle of physics--you're not reasonably going to carry around a 100W+ handheld even if you had a power source to supply it because it'd be literally too hot to handle.

Except you don't have a point of comparison - the Switch *is* Nintendo's home console. The Wii wasn't a powerhouse either, and neither was the Wii U, that's not the point. It doesn't have to be strong, it just has to be adequate.

Granted, it's obviously a shrunken market. That's why I was pointing out the PSP was an older generation. The point is that the total market for the 3DS + Vita is around the PSP alone.

That was the point I was demonstrating from the outset, which is why you saying I'm off by 7 years confused me. In order to demonstrate a trend over time I have to have at least two data points, in this case the current and the previous generation. My point was that every sign on heaven and earth indicates that smartphones *are* taking over and Nintendo's move to combine what they do well, portables, with what's likely to survive, home consoles, was a stroke of genius and is a major driving force of Switch sales.

You don't have to be an idiot so long as you (1) don't plan to make games exclusively for that system--a lot of publishers are pushing to port to the Switch or releasing smaller, stand-alone games--and/or (2) your objective is primarily to make money in a market and not really dominate the field. So, I guess the real story is the success of the Switch is yet another step in the downfall of Nintendo: they're moving to corner a niche market.

You can very easily dominate a field when you're the only one in it - Sony respectfully bowed out and Microsoft is showing no interest. Nintendo can be the sole supplier of mainstream portable consoles with zero effort, but they don't want to because as much as I make fun of them, their offices are not staffed by monkeys - smartphones have won, they've decimated the market, the field is barren. Nintendo can hit two birds with one stone and milk the remainder of those mobile gaming customers who want a console while simultaneously not missing out on the much bigger home console market by pursuing the hybrid strategy, it's genuinely the best move they could've done, but I'm sure we can be realistic about why they've done it.

 

[eriol33]

You can do this buy purchasing an android device with a HDMI output, no? But it's always the lack of the video games

 

[x65943]

That controller is as ugly as sin

 

[XDel]

Because phones have all the best games...

Sticks to Switch.

 

[The Catboy]

I am pretty sure there's been like 3 of these made already and no one gave a shit about them. No one wants an Android-based video game when all the games can already play on a phone. There's literally a million different options I can use right now to get the same effect and most of them are cheaper than this product.

 

[kuwanger]

Except you don't have a point of comparison - the Switch *is* Nintendo's home console. The Wii wasn't a powerhouse either, and neither was the Wii U, that's not the point. It doesn't have to be strong, it just has to be adequate.

So your argument is one of definition. If the PSP had been a success, the PS2 a failure, and Sony focused on the PSP as a home console platform, it'd be a home console equivalent by that logic. I think that's a rather dubious way to define things. A laptop is not a desktop just because a lot of people put it in a dock.

In order to demonstrate a trend over time I have to have at least two data points, in this case the current and the previous generation.

Which is why the two data points should be the generation as a whole, not merely the sales of the underdog vs the prime seller. The PS2/XBox/Gamecube sales were 155/24/21.74 or 200.74 total, and the Wii/Xbox 360/PS3 sales were 101.63/84/83.8 or 269.43 total. The market can spread sales more evenly over a generation. I mean, I know at a gut feeling what you were saying about the relative PSP/3DS sales, but gut feelings aren't really something to go on when you have reasonable good overview data.

Nintendo can be the sole supplier of mainstream portable consoles with zero effort, but they don't want to because as much as I make fun of them, their offices are not staffed by monkeys - smartphones have won, they've decimated the market, the field is barren. Nintendo can hit two birds with one stone and milk the remainder of those mobile gaming customers who want a console while simultaneously not missing out on the much bigger home console market by pursuing the hybrid strategy, it's genuinely the best move they could've done, but I'm sure we can be realistic about why they've done it.

It might be the best move they could do, but I think your point misses the obvious. If a Switch can be a hybrid portable and home console, then so can an Android tablet--if nothing else by syncing saves. The strong push for Android boxes makes me think this is a much closer reality than not. The missing aspects are (1) the infrastructure to support such a setup, (2) the base specification to provide a consistent-enough platform to develop for, (3) the willingness to sell actual hardware (set top box, controller, and tablet) to meet those needs, and (4) developers lining up to actual support such a platform. Amazon and Google both are already almost there, and they have the money to make (4) happen.

The Ouya and I predict the Wonder will be failures at their goals. I don't see the Switch segueing into anything in 5-7 years. I do see a lot of big players who could leverage Android to completely obliterate Nintendo's market.

 

[SimonMKWii]

Has any startup console company literally ever been anywhere near successful?
No. I think you see where I'm going with this.

 

[Xzi]

Some nobody company attempting to compete with the big three console makers...yeah that's always worked out great in the past.

Let me just whip out my Nokia N-Gage real quick and set a reminder for the release of this. /s

 

[Foxi4]

So your argument is one of definition. If the PSP had been a success, the PS2 a failure, and Sony focused on the PSP as a home console platform, it'd be a home console equivalent by that logic. I think that's a rather dubious way to define things. A laptop is not a desktop just because a lot of people put it in a dock.

I don't know where you're getting that impression from. The PSP was very clearly a portable console with the additional feature of a TV Out, the Switch is not designed as a portable with a TV Out (even though effectively it's just that), it's designed as Nintendo's home console, or rather, the merger point of their home consoles and portable consoles. A laptop indeed isn't a desktop, but a desktop with a handle on top is not a laptop either - a "laptop" is a form factor, so is a "desktop". Technically they're both PC's. If you want to boil things down to that level, technically the Switch is a tablet, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything you've said.

Which is why the two data points should be the generation as a whole, not merely the sales of the underdog vs the prime seller. The PS2/XBox/Gamecube sales were 155/24/21.74 or 200.74 total, and the Wii/Xbox 360/PS3 sales were 101.63/84/83.8 or 269.43 total. The market can spread sales more evenly over a generation. I mean, I know at a gut feeling what you were saying about the relative PSP/3DS sales, but gut feelings aren't really something to go on when you have reasonable good overview data.

The argument is not "gut-based", it's entirely data-based. The 3DS, the unquestioned leader in the field, is doing about as well this generation as the underdog did last generation - I picked precisely these two data points to signify that. I'm not entirely sure why you're dragging in home consoles to the discussion about portables. The final result is the result that matters - two generations ago the PS2 squashed the competition, a generation ago all three consoles did well, we saw an expansion in the home console market and the Wii pulled ahead. What that has to do with the DS/PSP situation or the comparison between the underperforming PSP and the 3DS is beyond me. At the end of the day the market visibly shrunk by 66%, that's the interesting stat, and by all estimations it will continue to shrink until it reaches an equilibrium when the supply matches the demand of die-hard users. If you don't think that's the case, ask yourself where did all the portable cameras, MP3 players, PNA's and PDA's go. The answer is that they're in your pocket, inside your smartphone, and nowadays these devices only exist in highly specialised forms like cameras for professional use, integrated navigation systems, software-based organisers and purpose-specific playback devices. Portable consoles will follow suit because everybody and their dog has a smartphone and unless they want "a little extra oomph", they're not going to spend extra for something they essentially already have. This isn't a "gut feeling", this is a market trend that has devoured many devices before and it will continue to do so.

It might be the best move they could do, but I think your point misses the obvious. If a Switch can be a hybrid portable and home console, then so can an Android tablet--if nothing else by syncing saves. The strong push for Android boxes makes me think this is a much closer reality than not. The missing aspects are (1) the infrastructure to support such a setup, (2) the base specification to provide a consistent-enough platform to develop for, (3) the willingness to sell actual hardware (set top box, controller, and tablet) to meet those needs, and (4) developers lining up to actual support such a platform. Amazon and Google both are already almost there, and they have the money to make (4) happen.

The Ouya and I predict the Wonder will be failures at their goals. I don't see the Switch segueing into anything in 5-7 years. I do see a lot of big players who could leverage Android to completely obliterate Nintendo's market.

You are correct in your assessment, the issue here is that Android is a highly disorganised platform. It's experiencing exactly the same problem microcomputers did way back when, a problem that eventually led to the great computer crash. With a huge multitude of different SKU's, all of which support their own store ecosystems, there's an abundance of hardware and a shortage of software. The Play Store was meant to be the unifying software distribution platform, but if OUYA runs its own marketplace, NVidia runs its TegraZone and so on and so forth, nobody is ever going to give a damn. The PC digital marketplace was equally disorganised *until* Steam and, to a lesser extent, Origin came along. Now you have one client running, pretty much everything runs on high-level API's so hardware dependencies are mostly irrelevant and everything is honkey dory. If Android were supposed to become an actual gaming platform, Google would have to put their foot down, release a gaming API, possibly their own gaming hardware as a template and say "guys, here's how gaming works on Android, you need this, this and that and everything has to work". They're not going to do that because they want Android to be open source down to the level of the kernel and it's not going to magic itself into existence because there's too many vendors and not enough interest. Much like it was the case with computers, this will be a long process of thinning out platforms that are terrible in favour of a couple platforms that are exceptional, and those haven't come along just yet because mobile tech is progressing so fast that hardware relevant today is outdated in a few months so nobody can grab a foothold, not to mention that the software choice is lacking.

Naturally this is a nuanced argument that we could have until the end of time, but to summarise, Nintendo has a standardised platform, adequate spec, brand recognition and a good software line-up on their side while on the mobile side of things you have iOS and Android which, besides being ubiquitous, have still some ways to go before they become a serious concern. That being said, in the long term they will weed out dedicated handhelds to the point of extinction, there's really no doubt about it and the sales figures support that estimation.

 

[comput3rus3r]

Now you can play shitty phone games on a big screen. Yay!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

"a great experience, in the way Apple does it.”

rofl so overpriced and underperforming.

 

[Foxi4]

Some nobody company attempting to compete with the big three console makers...yeah that's always worked out great in the past.

Let me just whip out my Nokia N-Gage real quick and set a reminder for the release of this. /s

Hey, I loved my N-Gage! That is, until someone stole it. Why someone would steal an N-Gage is something I've yet to figure out, but I assume they just didn't know it was an N-Gage and just picked it up in the dark just to be disappointed later.

 

[Taleweaver]

As such, rather than being an actual hardware, Wonder aims to build a mobile-console hybrid gaming ecosystem that is potentially not restricted to one hardware manufacturer but available to Wonder-ready devices that suits the user's needs and unleash further power with its peripherals.

“What we’re doing is not super hard. We’re not trying to create Magic Leap-style revolutionary tech nobody has ever seen,” Kleinman says confidently. “We’re just trying to put together a great experience, in the way Apple does it.”

Can someone please tell me what it is that they're trying to sell?

I have a nvidia shield, I have an ipega (as well as two or three other bluetooth devices) and if I wanted to, I could wade through dozens of devices to choose from to hook it up to my television. Why would I possibly want this wonder thing, who apparently consists of nothing but a meme-like name and some bullshit lingo?

 

[kuwanger]

Technically they're both PC's. If you want to boil things down to that level, technically the Switch is a tablet, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything you've said.

Just that a tablet is a tablet and its competition is Android mainly.

What that has to do with the DS/PSP situation or the comparison between the underperforming PSP and the 3DS is beyond me.

Because it's a good example of how one should look at the whole market and not necessarily a few players.

At the end of the day the market visibly shrunk by 66%, that's the interesting stat,

Yes, that's the interesting stat. You don't get that from the PSP/3DS numbers alone. Their relationship doesn't matter unless you establish the 3DS was a relatively big seller relatively to expectations in the market. Yet the whole point is the 3DS was a relatively poor seller and most people going in the 3DS generation already knew the smartphone market was going to eat a lot of sales. The shrinkage in sales was generally expected. If anything, the amazing thing is how well the NDS did.

If you don't think that's the case, ask yourself where did all the portable cameras, MP3 players, PNA's and PDA's go. The answer is that they're in your pocket, inside your smartphone,

Somewhat off-topic--and then ironically relevant--, I don't own a smartphone*. I do own an mp3 player which I bought in the last few years. So, I'm a bad example as a data point of the general trend.

Portable consoles will follow suit because everybody and their dog has a smartphone and unless they want "a little extra oomph", they're not going to spend extra for something they essentially already have. This isn't a "gut feeling", this is a market trend that has devoured many devices before and it will continue to do so.

That's my point. The market trend is a move away from portable consoles and to tablets. Nintendo may be trying to position itself as a hybrid tablet/home console, but it's unclear to me that it has any long-term prospects in that position precisely because so much functionality is being absorbed into smartphones/tablets.

If Android were supposed to become an actual gaming platform, Google would have to put their foot down, release a gaming API, possibly their own gaming hardware as a template and say "guys, here's how gaming works on Android, you need this, this and that and everything has to work". They're not going to do that because they want Android to be open source down to the level of the kernel and it's not going to magic itself into existence because there's too many vendors and not enough interest.

Except that Amazon has little interest in open source and has not made much inroads into a direct competition with Google Play. Perhaps they'll win out, but it's clear that a pivot towards a gaming platform instead of direct competition would be wiser. Not to say Amazon has demonstrated a willingness to actual think on those terms.

Meanwhile, while Google's work on Android was originally based upon an open platform, the whole Play Store is very antithetical to open source. It's precisely why the Android OS firewalls apps from each other. Google has consistently demonstrated a push for specific requirements to include the Play Store on devices. I honestly think Google is looking for new areas to expand into more than trying to dominate an existing market, so I'd say that's probably the biggest stumbling block from them making a new gaming API.

Nintendo has a standardised platform, adequate spec, brand recognition and a good software line-up on their side while on the mobile side of things you have iOS and Android which, besides being ubiquitous, have still some ways to go before they become a serious concern.

I don't really disagree with that, but consider that Android is only 9 years old. "In 2017, around 1.54 billion smartphones were sold worldwide." "Around 175 million units of tablets were shipped worldwide in 2016," If those statistics are to be believed, Google or Amazon could do what Microsoft did in the 90s: by new adoption alone overtake all existing players (often including older versions of their own software).

That being said, in the long term they will weed out dedicated handhelds to the point of extinction, there's really no doubt about it and the sales figures support that estimation.

The question isn't if dedicated handheld will be wiped out. It's whether dedicated hybrids will be wiped out and/or if Nintendo can pivot to a more standard home console. Except for the Wii, Nintendo hasn't really had much success in that space for a long time. I don't expect that to change or at least last.

* I do have an Android tablet and an Android dongle thingy. I've no interest in the other neat features of a smartphone: being called wherever I happen to be or otherwise bound to the internet while traversing from place to place.

 

[netovsk]

Seems more like a time-waster filled with overpriced indies to me.

 

[Xzi]

Seems more like a time-waster filled with overpriced indies to me.

I mean, full PC (Steam) game streaming is coming to Android soon for free, and there's always emulators, but everybody already has an Android phone. Buy an 8BitDo controller with connecting stand for your phone, and bam, it's the exact same as this "Wonder." Most phones have display output, too.

 

[calagan]

Shamelessly ripping off Gamesir and the awesome G4s for their ad... pathetic.

 

[Bladexdsl]

they can call it all they want but it's just another SHITTY ANDROID BOX! i'll stick with the superior shield TV

 

[TotalInsanity4]

How does handheld mode magically change the physical orientation of the input on the controller? Your thumbs don't magically jump out of their sockets just because the joycons are attached to the tablet

... I assumed you actually own a Switch, but I'm not so sure after that statement. I mostly agree with (very specifically) your point that, when not attached to the console, the Joycon are ridiculously small, and rather uncomfortable to hold. But the ergonomics completely change when you play in handheld mode, due to the fact that there's a lot more surface along the back to grip. And I've never had an issue with the placement of the sticks while playing in handheld, even if, again, they're a bit odd when playing with them removed

Like, I'm fairly certain most of your concerns (other than analog triggers) would be addressed by someone producing a Joycon grip that angles the controllers slightly

 

[Foxi4]

... I assumed you actually own a Switch, but I'm not so sure after that statement. I mostly agree with (very specifically) your point that, when not attached to the console, the Joycon are ridiculously small, and rather uncomfortable to hold. But the ergonomics completely change when you play in handheld mode, due to the fact that there's a lot more surface along the back to grip. And I've never had an issue with the placement of the sticks while playing in handheld, even if, again, they're a bit odd when playing with them removed

Like, I'm fairly certain most of your concerns (other than analog triggers) would be addressed by someone producing a Joycon grip that angles the controllers slightly

I'm a Day 1 Switch owner. Day 0, really, since I had access to the platform pre-release. The joycons are a joke and the comfort level is only increased in portable mode because you can rest the tablet on your lap as you play, the physical arrangement or the size of the controllers doesn't magically change once you attach them to the tablet. In fact, you lose a bit of the grip that was otherwise provided by the controller holder. I'm not the only one saying this, by the way - people are actively engaged in designing and printing various Joycon extensions, it's such a concern that Benheck outright moved the analog stick altogether on his unit. Not everyone's Benheck though, so some people are stuck with what they've got, and what they've got is sub-optimal.

 

[Pluupy]

Let me explain to you precisely why you're wrong about the Joycon duet "controller":

1. Vertical orientation of function buttons and the analog sticks as opposed to diagonal which is much more ergonomic
2. Baby-sized analog sticks with poor grip - great if you're a toddler, virtually unusable for the average gamer
3. No D-Pad, a problem mostly caused by the fact that you can use joycons individually, but there were better solutions out there which would allow for a more suitable shape for when they're used in tandem
4. Horrific triggers from hell with no analog input
5. Overall small size, especially the thickness

The controller above, assuming it's sectioned like the Switch controller, comes together into a much more compelling and traditional package compared to the "dog face" pad of the Switch, no question. It's not designed by an industry nobody either, it's from the mind of Yves Behar. You can make fun of it all you want, but it looks like a far more functional controller than Nintendo's square monstrosity that fits in your hand about as well as a brick.

1. The only reason why vertical isn't ergonomic is because you are not using the grip or switch pro controller. Or have large hands.

2. That's a personal problem. You must have large hands. Switch fits me fine.

3. Already solved by using Switch pro controller for a dpad.

4. I personally hate shoulder triggers. They are obnoxious inclusions from the 360/PS3 generation. The Switch pro controls are basically the PS2 dual shock, the quitessential game controller ever made.

5. Large hands again.

Your complaints are kind of the opposite of how I feel for the Xbox and Logitech controllers, oddly enough. I hate them because they are gigantic, hate the dpad positioning, hard to squeeze the trigger thus I hate their existence, and poor ergonomics.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

DS consoles didn't have a ginormous screen in the middle and until the 3DS they didn't have analog sticks either. You're also implying that the placement of the analog stick on the 3DS is comfortable, which it isn't, but that system had different space considerations - ones that did not apply to the Switch because the thing's enormous in comparison and didn't need to be so cramped. I'm also not "overreacting", I'm just calling the controller poorly-designed from an ergonomics standpoint because that's what it is, there's a reason why no other controller uses a layout like that just for fun - when they do, it's due to space constraints or other considerations, not by choice.

...Wat.

Have you...ever held a 3DS?

Even someone with big manly hands as my brother in law is able to hold the old XL comfortably. What kind of "Nintendo" consoles have you been buying?
There are tons of other controllers which use the same layout as the Switch and 3DS. The PS1 and PS2 controllers, as well as Logitech's controllers prior to becoming Xbox copycats. Cheapy chinese knockoffs as well since the layout is basically the go-to style for game controllers.