Is Sharing Illegal ?

[Hi-Dro]

Here in Sweden, they decided that the ISPs HAVE to block piracy sites for their users. It's horrifying!

Yes exactly but if ISP logs the Traffic in the first case that is more horrifying IMO, I would prefer to be Censored rather than monitored.

Piracy is illegal.
Sharing ANY copyrighted software is illegal.

The only way you can legitimately have a backup is that you've made it yourself and have the original still in your possession.
If you no longer got the original in your possession then you must destroy the backup copy as well.

Nobody's really arguing that, but rather the morality behind the laws.

I agree with what you have been saying and I like the car analogy.

DinohScene this response

Spoiler

The only way you can legitimately have a backup is that you've made it yourself and have the original still in your possession.
If you no longer got the original in your possession then you must destroy the backup copy as well.

is what could land you a fat fine when being questioned. (it's a very grey area, civil matters are allowed to be very grey areas)

Lets say that you have a keen hobby of PS4 game collecting, so you think it's okay to make some backup versions to preserve the original, and you lend your Back ups to a mate, who then uploads them to a site.
Eventually they come after him, and the bread crumb trail leads back to you. You get invited to court
as a witness perhaps.
Thinking you are innocent in all of this, proceed to talk to the Lawyers sent from lets say 'Sony' next thing you know, you are there in the stand defending yourself. Just because you thought it was legitimate when it isn't.
Sony has enough money and power to make an example of you and your friends, and suing you for massive amounts of money already would make you shit scared, and make you feel like you life was going to end. Most people would not or could not afford a decent lawyer. Most likely you will lose all your friends and branded as a pirate and thief, So before the case even begins you are on the back foot, depressed and disheartened, Mainly due to intimidation.
I'm willing to bet you wouldn't feel that was very moral of Sony if they put you in that situation? Especially if you 'believed' you were acting within the law.

Its clear that they are relying on our peoples honesty and willingness to explain and help them. But in the end, we screw our selves up for not knowing, and being scared.
Right of free speech, or in this case freedom of silence , or pleading the fifth if you are in US, Is important. That is there so you don't unknowingly implicate yourself to a crime.
Like in this scenario. It might just save you.

Through intimidation we are obedient it seems.

Imagine we refused to be intimidated by corporate threatening letters, invitations to a court hearing and refused any correspondence or dates. or people knocking at your door.
What would happen?
Then it would have to go to a criminal court right ? but only if there is enough evidence to warrant a strong criminal case against you right?
I'm not to sure on these details. anyone know?

 

[DinohScene]

Yes exactly but if ISP logs the Traffic in the first case that is more horrifying IMO, I would prefer to be Censored rather than monitored.




I agree with what you have been saying and I like the car analogy.

DinohScene this response is what could land you a fat fine when being questioned. (it's a very grey area, civil matters are allowed to be very grey areas)

Lets say that you have a keen hobby of PS4 game collecting, so you think it's okay to make some backup versions to preserve the original, and you lend your Back ups to a mate, who then uploads them to a site.
Eventually they come after him, and the bread crumb trail leads back to you. You get invited to court
as a witness perhaps.
Thinking you are innocent in all of this, proceed to talk to the Lawyers sent from lets say 'Sony' next thing you know, you are there in the stand defending yourself. Just because you thought it was legitimate when it isn't.
Sony has enough money and power to make an example of you and your friends, and suing you for massive amounts of money already would make you shit scared, and make you feel like you life was going to end. Most people would not or could not afford a decent lawyer. Most likely you will lose all your friends and branded as a pirate and thief, So before the case even begins you are on the back foot, depressed and disheartened, Mainly due to intimidation.
I'm willing to bet you wouldn't feel that was very moral of Sony if they put you in that situation? Especially if you 'believed' you were acting within the law.

Its clear that they are relying on our peoples honesty and willingness to explain and help them. But in the end, we screw our selves up for not knowing, and being scared.
Right of free speech, or in this case freedom of silence , or pleading the fifth if you are in US, Is important. That is there so you don't unknowingly implicate yourself to a crime.
Like in this scenario. It might just save you.

Through intimidation we are obedient it seems.

Imagine we refused to be intimidated by corporate threatening letters, invitations to a court hearing and refused any correspondence or dates. or people knocking at your door.
What would happen?
Then it would have to go to a criminal court right ? but only if there is enough evidence to warrant a strong criminal case against you right?
I'm not to sure on these details. anyone know?

Well, making copies for personal use is allowed, the lending to mates etc isn't.
DVD and Blu-ray movies state that showing it in public or places with lots of people is prohibited.
Has been that way since the VHS afaik.
Not entirely sure on the "lending it to another person"..
But ofcourse, this is with retail discs n what not.

Well, Sony has the right to defend their intellectual property.

I'm no expert on law, otherwise I wouldn't been here probably...
But at least I'm doing me part by not showing it in public, nor lending it to another person.
Filthy fingers getting their dabs on me shit, no ty.

Anyway, I dun live in the US but rather living in the "continent with more freedom" of Europe.
Which laws are somewhat relaxer then the US's.

 

[goldensun87]

All I see is a generic copyright notice which all ISPs have been giving out since bittorrent existed. Solution? Don't pirate, or if you do, use a VPN that allows P2P or just use private trackers.

All ISPs? You sure about that? Because, I have been pirating with AT&T service for years now, and I did not receive a warning letter even once. Such warning letters are the reason that I avoid subscribing to cable-based internet like Charter though. I know that people under Charter, have received such warning letters.

 

[linuxares]

Well I'm going to be honest here.
I pirate somethings like TV series and Movies. If I like them enough, I buy the bluray of them.
Same with other things as well. I wish to do a try before buy.

Persona 4 Golden for example on the PSVita. Pirated it, loved it, bought it. I'm the rarebreed that likes to own physical copies and also support the creators so we get more content from them.

A rare case I have today is "Story of Season: Trio of towns". I wanted to buy it and surprise my girlfriend. Could I do it? Nope! It isn't sold in Europe. So I actually have to pirate it since she can't play it in her 3DS (it isn't hacked, she doesn't want it to be.)

This is why I like that that Switch is regionfree. I already imported a game since it got a physical copy in Japan.

 

[Haloman800]

"Sharing" may be illegal in most cases, but that doesn't make it immoral. Similarly, slavery being legal in the past (and still today in some African countries) does not make it moral.

Legality != morality.

 

[endoverend]

All ISPs? You sure about that? Because, I have been pirating with AT&T service for years now, and I did not receive a warning letter even once. Such warning letters are the reason that I avoid subscribing to cable-based internet like Charter though. I know that people under Charter, have received such warning letters.

Then you're probably just doing it right. Granted some ISPs are more watchful than others, but high ticket items like stuff from the Sony Pictures leak last year is monitored by most major ISPs.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Then you're probably ju doing it right. Granted some ISPs are more watchful than others, but high ticket items like stuff from the Sony Pictures leak last year is monitored by most major ISPs.

Not exactly. It's monitored by third party companies, like CCI or Logistep AG, who then contact the ISP associated with the IP they sniff and then they send out the notices. The most notorious system was the CAS, which a lot of major ISPs in the US used, but that was shut down at the end of January.

ISPs themselves don't monitor anything related to copyright infringement, most of them couldn't give a rats ass as long as you're paying them delicious cash to do it. It's the third party companies that track and notify the ISPs that are really "sending" them, your ISP just sort of "forwards" them along (and occasionally they just don't).

At least, that's how it works in the US generally. I know a few places in Europe are a bit more strict about it.

 

[Hi-Dro]

Not exactly. It's monitored by third party companies, like CCI or Logistep AG, who then contact the ISP associated with the IP they sniff and then they send out the notices. The most notorious system was the CAS, which a lot of major ISPs in the US used, but that was shut down at the end of January.

ISPs themselves don't monitor anything related to copyright infringement, most of them couldn't give a rats ass as long as you're paying them delicious cash to do it. It's the third party companies that track and notify the ISPs that are really "sending" them, your ISP just sort of "forwards" them along (and occasionally they just don't).

At least, that's how it works in the US generally. I know a few places in Europe are a bit more strict about it.

Delicious Cash yuk those words should never be used together I did chuckle though and reminds me of one of my Favourite Native American Quotes "when will the white man realise you cannot eat money"

Maybe we the people should set up a third party company to monitor where all the fucking money goes after its magically made out of thin air.

 

[Monty Kensicle]

Notice how they call it 'Sharing'

"we need your help to prevent this from happening again"

and we are watching you !!!!

"Informed" which means absolutely nothing, you can get those on one of those lists for merely watching a bit torrent stream and even have to download anything. Tell them "Fuck you, prove it." But maybe a little nicer than that.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Didn't Jesus, iirc, doubled and shared fish? And he inspired a religion...

He got jailed and executed, right? /s

PS: Sure the establishment didn't like him sharing in public.

 

[goldensun87]

Not exactly. It's monitored by third party companies, like CCI or Logistep AG, who then contact the ISP associated with the IP they sniff and then they send out the notices. The most notorious system was the CAS, which a lot of major ISPs in the US used, but that was shut down at the end of January.

ISPs themselves don't monitor anything related to copyright infringement, most of them couldn't give a rats ass as long as you're paying them delicious cash to do it. It's the third party companies that track and notify the ISPs that are really "sending" them, your ISP just sort of "forwards" them along (and occasionally they just don't).

At least, that's how it works in the US generally. I know a few places in Europe are a bit more strict about it.

Trackers...are those scripts that can be blocked by the likes of NoScript and ScriptSafe? Could that be how copyright owners are unable to catch me? But what about BitTorrent? Are there ways of tracking the use of the BitTorrent program? Or, can these trackers only track people who are visiting torrent hosting websites?

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Trackers...are those scripts that can be blocked by the likes of NoScript and ScriptSafe? Could that be how copyright owners are unable to catch me? But what about BitTorrent? Are there ways of tracking the use of the BitTorrent program? Or, can these trackers only track people who are visiting torrent hosting websites?

The companies don't monitor torrent sites, they monitor the torrent trackers (which is what connects people together to share the files you're downloading). Basically they connect to the torrent trackers, search for copyrighted content, and then collect the IP addresses who are uploading that content. Then they attempt to download a piece of the copyrighted content to compare it to their own piece to confirm it is indeed copyrighted content. If it is, they note the IP address, the content that's being downloaded, and the time it's downloaded. Then they identify the ISP from the IP, and send the ISP the notification that you're downloading illegal content.

There are a few ways to sort of block them from doing that, but they're not 100% foolproof.

One way is to block all the known IP addresses the companies use to track the content so they aren't able to download anything from you. This doesn't work 100% because IPs can always change.

Another is to use private torrent trackers, as you have to be registered to a site with it's own tracker that generally allows users to only sign up via an invite from another member. Since no one is likely to invite a torrent tracking company, it's "safer" than public torrents. But sometimes they'll get in from open registrations, or someone will give them their user account for whatever reason etc etc and you'll still get a notice.

You can also use a VPN, which is the most effective way to avoid being caught for multiple reasons. One, the VPN uses a different IP address than you so the IP they collect can't necessarily be traced back to you. Two, VPNs encrypt your traffic (unlike proxies) so you ISP itself wouldn't be able to confirm you're actually torrenting instead of, say, downloading a game on Steam or something. But despite being the most effective, you can still get caught if the VPN your using doesn't allow torrent and they receive a notice but they'll usually use cancel your account and that's it. There are torrent-friendly VPNs out there, though.

As to why you've never been "caught", there are a lot of reasons. As I mentioned, some ISPs don't bother with notifications at all and just ignore them, sometimes the tracking software can't verify the piece they're downloading from you is copyrighted, you might have your upload rate set to really low so on one is able to download as much from you etc etc. They also can't monitor the activity of the millions upon millions upon millions of people torrenting stuff, either, they usually prioritize the original uploader first (even though that's difficult to find).

The best way to not get caught is to simply not torrent and use other methods if you absolutely have to.

 

[spotanjo3]

Yes, sharing is illegal.

I know but that's the stupid things I have ever heard. If sharing is illegal then they are jealous. Sharing is caring. Nothing's wrong with that as long as we purchased things and shared. Thats our money and not theirs!

 

[Issac]

I know but that's the stupid things I have ever heard. If sharing is illegal then they are jealous. Sharing is caring. Nothing's wrong with that as long as we purchased things and shared. Thats our money and not theirs!

Sharing in this sense is "sharing copyrighted (or pirated) material". Copying a CD you bought yourself, and giving it to a close friend is legal up to 5 times (at least here in Sweden).

I hope you don't seriously think it's okay to share a game for example to 10,000 people just because you bought it.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Spelling it like sharing makes it seem that lending a friend a game disc would be illegal, and perhaps companies want us to eat that, but no thanks.
Hell, you can even borrow games for free from the library here in Germany. How would it be illegal to lend a game disc to a friend?

 

[Issac]

Spelling it like sharing makes it seem that lending a friend a game disc would be illegal, and perhaps companies want us to eat that, but no thanks.
Hell, you can even borrow games for free from the library here in Germany. How would it be illegal to lend a game disc to a friend?

It says: "Copyrighted material has been shared using your broadband connection". It has nothing to do with borrowing or lending stuff to a friend.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Spelling it like sharing makes it seem that lending a friend a game disc would be illegal, and perhaps companies want us to eat that, but no thanks.
Hell, you can even borrow games for free from the library here in Germany. How would it be illegal to lenda game disc to a friend?

There's a big difference between sharing a disc and sharing digital content. Sharing a disc basically "transfers" the license from one person to another (you both can't play the same disc at the same time). Sharing "digital" content isn't transferring the license, it's essentially just copying it and giving it to another person which is the illegal part.

 

[spotanjo3]

Sharing in this sense is "sharing copyrighted (or pirated) material". Copying a CD you bought yourself, and giving it to a close friend is legal up to 5 times (at least here in Sweden).

I hope you don't seriously think it's okay to share a game for example to 10,000 people just because you bought it.

You are very funny. No... Not to 10,000 people that I don't know and one of them might be undercover police or something like that.

 

[Deleted User]

I really haven't heard anything big from online piracy since the Megaupload incident, but thats probably b/c SOPA was in affect in that time period
Jail time is usually more prone to the hoster than the downloaders

Kat.cr was shut down in the last 4 years... it was pretty much the size of megupload

 

[fatsquirrel]

If you have to question yourself if something is illegal, it MOST LIKELY IS