Gaming Iwata is indifferent on modern games (interview)

[Bladexdsl]

fuck cut scenes tell the story with one at the start than get on with nothing but gameplay. this is why the FF games suck these days your practically watching a fucking movie not playing a game!

 

[Hargrun]

*looking at my dusty DS in disgust*

Oh, so this slogan was the reason I bought it? Who would say... *facepalm*


Well, back to the topic. In fact, there're games that look more like movies. I'm the kind of guy who sometimes gets confused about when the action starts or ends, and then I skip the cutscene by accident! So many cutscenes...

 

[Taleweaver]

Jezus Christ, fix the topic title, already, shinkodachi. Wiiubricker and ghanmi already made it perfectly clear why it's totally the wrong conclusion. This isn't a matter of "thanking them for their opinion on the subject", but understanding why yours isn't correct.


Iwata's saying modern games use the technology wrong*. The "too many cutscenes" remark is just an example of the underlying issue. We all know games cost plenty of money and effort to make. That should mean that money is put to good use. So when creating a beautiful cutscene, one should wonder if it's actually going to stick in the player's mind. If not (in other words: if the player is likely to want to skip it), that money and effort is better spent elsewhere. I personally think he was more implying in the lines of spending it in prerelease bugfixing, but I can't make that up from the tidbits of info.

You say you want Iwata's opinion of the last of us. My response is "no you don't". What you WANT is to hear him say that he hates TLOU because it has cutscenes, so that would prove your theory that he hates modern video games (and would justify getting some other CEO in charge). However, you're building your theory on an interview that implies no such thing, so no matter what the guy's opinion is on that video game, you'll end up twisting those words so it'll fit in your theory.





*and I'm going by a snibblet here. The original interview probably has way more context, but I don't understand Japanese enough to know what it is.

 

[shinkodachi]

Jezus Christ, fix the topic title, already, shinkodachi.

Yeah if that was possible I'd have done it already. Hate the game, not the player.

EDIT: And I really don't understand why you feel that I'm disagreeing with Iwata. I actually agree with him. I came to the conclusion that Iwata hates (doesn't like / doesn't pay attention to / doesn't care about) modern games because of their show of cutscenes instead of advancements in game development. I'm with you. I never said that I disagreed with Iwata or that this thread is about bashing him or Nintendo.

I still genuinely would like to know what Iwata thinks about something like TLoU in response to the comments he made in the interview. Actually I'm interested to hear the opinions from other Nintendo higher ups as well. Considering TLoU is very close to being the ultimate Western game ever developed, I'd like to hear if the Japanese would have done things differently, whether they like that kind of expression and if they have personally played it. I personally didn't like TLoU at first. To this date I still don't care about that game. I brought it up because it's a good example.

 

[chevowner]

Cutscenes are ok the first time playing a game, but they must be skippable. This includes games with a cutscene before boss fights, and if you lose you have to watch it over again.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Last "modern" western game I played sat me through 3 years of cringeworthy cutscenes with ugly ass uncanny valley abominations until the title appeared. That's when I dropped it.

You rang?

The games with the most cutscenes are Japanese. Metal Gear Solid 4, Xenosaga, Final Fantasy as a whole (more so with FFXIII).

Your tunnel vision is strong.

 

[shinkodachi]

Here's more from the interview translated:

Kawakami: Ah, so, what was you're last job as an engineer, then?

Iwata: Aaah, I wonder if it's alright to admit this? Well, I guess the proverbial statute of limitations is up, so I'll tell you, but my actual last work on programming happened when I was working as the General Manager of Corporate Planning at Nintendo. Something happened and the Gamecube version of Super Smash Brothers didn't look like it was going to make its release date so I sort of did a code review for it (Wry Laugh).

All: (Laugh Loudly)

Kawakami: No matter how you look at it, that's not the job of the General Manager of Corporate Planning, is it? (Laughs)

Iwata: Yes, it isn't really, is it (wry laugh). At the time, I went to HAL Labs in Yamanashi and was the acting head of debugging. So, I did the code review, fixed some bugs, read the code and fixed more bugs, read the long bug report from Nintendo, figured out where the problem was and got people to fix those...all in all I spent about three weeks like that. And, because of that, the game made it out on time.

Kawakami:So you even did the debugging yourself!

Iwata:　And that was the last time that I worked as an engineer 'in the field'. I was right there, sitting by programmers, in the trenches, reading code together, finding the bugs, and fixing them together.

Kawakami: That is such an interesting story. But with that being the last time you worked as an engineer, does it mean that there's a knowledge gap between you and people who are currently working as ones?

Iwata: Yes, stepping back from something means that a knowledge gap is inevitable. Even if I understand the principles, I just can't take the time to fully update my skills. So, with time, I've found myself having to ask what certain things are.
So, even though I'm looking over the system development departments, I find myself having to ask them to explain certain things to me. Through that I'm sort of struggling through trying to not let my judgements standards waste away.

Iwata is to be thanked we got Smash Bros. Melee! Very nice. Although, that last bit from Iwata is worrying. If I had to criticize his work then it'd be that he's not up to date on everything that's going on and he admits that. "Out of touch" like someone said here before. :/

 

[Silentsurvivor]

The games with the most cutscenes are Japanese. Metal Gear Solid 4, Xenosaga, Final Fantasy as a whole (more so with FFXIII).

Your tunnel vision is strong.

They're still videogames and they don't try to pass as anything else. The most mainstream Western games try too hard to be movies.

Even on the most "cinematic" out of those, the Metal Gear games, you still have "videogamey" things to remind you it's, well, a videogame. Stuff like cardboard boxes and inflatable decoys. The game's honest with you. Also, the art direction is a whole lot better and they actually try an unique style instead of copying real life with, as I mentioned, uncanny valley looking characters that cause me a whole lot of discomfort.

Overall I really dislike Blockbuster AAA Western games. They're way too generic and look like they're made by director rejects who couldn't try for hollywood and turned to games instead. Just my two cents. Please note I'm specifically talking AAA here.

The only AAA Western game I can think of that didn't try to be anything more than a fun videogame was Sunset Overdrive. Really enjoyed it. Game has a whole lot of personality and a great art style.

 

[jmanup85]

Here's more from the interview translated:

Iwata is to be thanked we got Smash Bros. Melee! Very nice. Although, that last bit from Iwata is worrying. If I had to criticize his work then it'd be that he's not up to date on everything that's going on and he admits that. "Out of touch" like someone said here before. :/

He is out of touch with his coding skills and that is what he is referring to. How do you get by with no reading comprehension?

 

[shinkodachi]

He is out of touch with his coding skills and that is what he is referring to. How do you get by with no reading comprehension?

Kawakami: That is such an interesting story. But with that being the last time you worked as an engineer, does it mean that there's a knowledge gap between you and people who are currently working as ones?

Iwata: Yes, stepping back from something means that a knowledge gap is inevitable. Even if I understand the principles, I just can't take the time to fully update my skills. So, with time, I've found myself having to ask what certain things are.
So, even though I'm looking over the system development departments, I find myself having to ask them to explain certain things to me. Through that I'm sort of struggling through trying to not let my judgements standards waste away.

Iwata said himself that he doesn't look at code anymore. What do you think that line refers to, code? I don't think so, because he said he doesn't review code anymore. I read and understand that as him trying to keep up with the ways current engineers are solving problems, even though they're different from his (now aged) principles.

 

[jmanup85]

Iwata: Yes, stepping back from something means that a knowledge gap is inevitable. Even if I understand the principles, I just can't take the time to fully update my skills. So, with time, I've found myself having to ask what certain things are.
So, even though I'm looking over the system development departments, I find myself having to ask them to explain certain things to me. Through that I'm sort of struggling through trying to not let my judgements standards waste away.

Kawakami: So that's an on-going thing, then?

Iwata: Yes, of course. How do I put this? I, personally, don't want to lose my position as the 'CEO of a listed company in Japan with the most knowledge of programming'.

Funny how you left out the next bit that shows he is referring to his coding and programming skills, Sherlock

 

[shinkodachi]

Funny how you left out the next bit that shows he is referring to his coding and programming skills, Sherlock

I'm fairly sure that last bit wasn't there when I quoted the section. Went back to the thread and yes, I missed that part. I stand corrected. Anything else you want?

 

[pwsincd]

sat n "played" infamous second son with my son yesterday , while my son had the controller in his hand , i did feel like we were watching a movie together more than playing a game . It was enjoyable to get my son immersed in a game rather than just mindless shooting / fighting . but he didnt seem to play much in the 40 mins we "played".. im in two minds wether they are too much or useful . But iwata dont hate em.. less i cant read.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Anything else you want?

Perhaps next time you copy paste things try to remove the formating so it doesn't look like this.

Spoiler

 

[emigre]

I also do agree with Iwata to some extent, however what you're proposing just makes me ask: why are there cutscenes in games in the first place?

Narrative innit. Or in some interesting cases, cutscenes are used to hide that the game is actually loading. IIRC Max Payne 3 did a similar trick.

Personally I'm cool with cutscenes, the only gaem to test my patience was MGS4.

 

[shinkodachi]

Perhaps next time you copy paste things try to remove the formating so it doesn't look like this.

Spoiler

View attachment 13424

Hmm, will do. Didn't think it was an issue since it looks like this to me:

Spoiler

Narrative innit. Or in some interesting cases, cutscenes are used to hide that the game is actually loading. IIRC Max Payne 3 did a similar trick.

Personally I'm cool with cutscenes, the only gaem to test my patience was MGS4.

Since games can load pretty fast now, using cutscenes to hide the fact seems stupid in today's games. Narrative is good, but if what Iwata says is true and most people skip over cutscenes... Then there's no point in cutscenes. (That's largely my own opinion as well.)

 

[Foxi4]

You can't have a narrative-driven game without cutscenes, be it in FMV or in-engine, even Nintendo games have them. Like it or not, not every game is Pong - some games try to tell a story and for that you need dialogue and scenes with proper framing. You can't have non-stop action in a narrative, otherwise you'll just tire the viewer. The trick is in the right balance between action engaging the player and moments of relief and narrative building in other scenes. Iwata doesn't understand that because in his days games were simplistic, today they are more complex and require direction, like a movie or a play. He sounds like a grumpy old man shaking his cane at the young whipper snappers, he's an old dog who has issues with new tricks.

 

[emigre]

Since games can load pretty fast now, using cutscenes to hide the fact seems stupid in today's games. Narrative is good, but if what Iwata says is true and most people skip over cutscenes... Then there's no point in cutscenes. (That's largely my own opinion as well.)

I don't know about that. Even on the brand new spanking hardware, load times are still apparent and at times lengthy. For example TLOU and GTA V do one big load when the gaem starts.

Narrative is good, but if what Iwata says is true and most people skip over cutscenes... Then there's no point in cutscenes. (That's largely my own opinion as well.)

Iwata's argument is strawman though. And personally I don't think much of it at an era when gaems are attempting ot be more narrative and cinematic with these gaems attracting widespread atention. Using the examples above, TLOU is well regarded for excellent characters and relationship building whilst GTA provides enjoyable entertainment in their cutscenes. This is coupled as Iwata as a developer hasn't really been involved in a 'cinematic' videogaem. I can easily just say people watch cutscenes because it allows to player to view the gaem's visuals as well as provide a small break to the player, particularly after a intensive piece of gameplay.

This is not to say cutscenes are the sole means of telling a narrative but it is tried and tested means of doing so.

 

[RevPokemon]

Pretty much all the nintendo tpo dogs sound like grumpy old pepole when they describe modern gaming .

 

[shinkodachi]

I can easily just say people watch cutscenes because it allows to player to view the gaem's visuals as well as provide a small break to the player, particularly after a intensive piece of gameplay.

Never thought about it that way. I recall Super Mario Sunshine having these kinds of breaks when starting a level: the game first makes you absorb the atmosphere and visuals as the camera pans around the level and this is something you can't skip (presumably it's loading at the same time).