Hacking 3DS 6.3 Exploit Found

[lambstone]

We just need devs and people in general who are not pessimistic and cynical enough to believe that users don't deserve freedom over their devices.

During the PSP days, things have a very distinct US vs THEM mindset, sort of like the US court system where it was defendant vs prosecutor. Hackers did what we could to empower the user as much as we could, and the corporation did everything they could to limit them. In that way, things worked out fine for both parties. PSP flourished for both, and you have to keep in mind the exploits came within around a year after the system was released.


Heh, good. Use it and maybe it'll catch on

PSP scene flourished as all the hackers cared about was maximising the potential of the PSP instead of holding back because of piracy concerns. Right now for the 3DS scene, we've got a +2000 handicapped because of the "holier than thou" mindset. While piracy concerns are legitimate, they are over emphasized. Piracy and hacking are closely related. Think about the following scenario.

3DS sales sluggish > CFW for easy pirating released > People buy 3DSes > more 3DSes in circulation > more games developed > more interest in hacking 3DS > Nintendo locks down 3DS with new update > Hackers endeavour to make things possible and bypass ninty. The cycle repeats.


HERE's what's happening now.

3DS Hacking Scene limited because of aversion to piracy > little documentation > nobody new gives a shit about hacking 3DS > smealum releases SSSPwn > We get games like fucking flappy bird and tic tac toe > people lose interest


The thing is, with 3ds exploits and hacking, its a double edged sword. Yes, it affects piracy. BUT.. most people fail to recognise that it is counter-productive to hold back because of said piracy fears. You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs because that's what's happening now. The devs are trying to make scrambled eggs without breaking any eggs. It's not going to be good for the scene.

 

[gamefan5]

PSP scene flourished as all the hackers cared about was maximising the potential of the PSP instead of holding back because of piracy concerns. Right now for the 3DS scene, we've got a +2000 handicapped because of the "holier than thou" mindset. While piracy concerns are legitimate, they are over emphasized. Piracy and hacking are closely related. Think about the following scenario.

3DS sales sluggish > CFW for easy pirating released > People buy 3DSes > more 3DSes in circulation > more games developed > more interest in hacking 3DS > Nintendo locks down 3DS with new update > Hackers endeavour to make things possible and bypass ninty. The cycle repeats.


HERE's what's happening now.

3DS Hacking Scene limited because of aversion to piracy > little documentation > nobody new gives a shit about hacking 3DS > smealum releases SSSPwn > We get games like fucking flappy bird and tic tac toe > people lose interest


The thing is, with 3ds exploits and hacking, its a double edged sword. Yes, it affects piracy. BUT.. most people fail to recognise that it is counter-productive to hold back because of said piracy fears. You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs because that's what's happening now. The devs are trying to make scrambled eggs without breaking any eggs. It's not going to be good for the scene.

So... If you were in smea's shoes, u would release it with having piracy enabled? Even when having a chance of being sued?

 

[Huntereb]

So... If you were in smea's shoes, u would release it with having piracy enabled? Even when having a chance of being sued?

I would release something that doesn't enable piracy, but unintentionally(?) lets others enable piracy (And at the same time, everything else we've ever dreamed of for the 3DS). Using the 4.5 exploit and creating a launcher that expands system privileges is all he needs to do for that to happen.

 

[lambstone]

So... If you were in smea's shoes, u would release it with having piracy enabled? Even when having a chance of being sued?

I'm not complaining about his decision choices. He has a right to protect his own interests (whatever that may be). Everybody does.

I'm commenting about the 3DS hacking scene at it is right now.

I'm not complaining about his decision choices. He has a right to protect his own interests (whatever that may be). Everybody does.

I'm commenting about the 3DS hacking scene at it is right now.

"Well, you just want to pirate games for free and I'm not going to help you with it"

Inb4 some dev commenting.

 

[daicon]

So... If you were in smea's shoes, u would release it with having piracy enabled? Even when having a chance of being sued?

The only difference I would make would merely be releasing sooner than later so people can start documenting and creating as much cool stuff together as possible. I wouldn't hold things back, discard work or waste my time trying to devise some sort of DRM.

The funny thing is Sony or Nintendo don't care what a hacker's intentions are. They're not going to read Smea's twitter and think "awww.. he's a nice kid. Let's leave him alone."(Although that may be what he somehow tricked himself into thinking). They sue because they want to make an example to other hackers and offer up a pound of flesh to their holders.

 

[smealum]

honestly, most of the comments here just make me sad. I have a given goal, which is to let people write their own games/apps for the 3DS, with the exact same level of access to the hardware as official devs. I can understand that people would be disappointed that my work won't let them take screenshots or cheat in games on 5.0+, I find some of the comments here to be awfully disrespectful. especially, people comparing homebrew games to "flappy bird and tic tac toe" are complete dickheqds who have no idea what it's like to make stuff and clearly have never taken a look at how many awesome amateur games were made for the DS.
so yeah. this makes me sad.

also, to be clear, I'm not some anti piracy fanatic. I don't care what you people decide to do on your own time, that's your problem. I'm just not interested in being a part of it in any way. I wish more people would respect that, and acknowledge that there may be more factors coming into my decisions than what they think they know about me.

 

[Snailface]

honestly, most of the comments here just make me sad. I have a given goal, which is to let people write their own games/apps for the 3DS, with the exact same level of access to the hardware as official devs. I can understand that people would be disappointed that my work won't let them take screenshots or cheat in games on 5.0+, I find some of the comments here to be awfully disrespectful. especially, people comparing homebrew games to "flappy bird and tic tac toe" are complete dickheqds who have no idea what it's like to make stuff and clearly have never taken a look at how many awesome amateur games were made for the DS.
so yeah. this makes me sad.

Please know that the idiot you're referencing is not representative of the community. A lot of people here understand the high level of contribution you're bringing and greatly appreciate it.

 

[lambstone]

honestly, most of the comments here just make me sad. I have a given goal, which is to let people write their own games/apps for the 3DS, with the exact same level of access to the hardware as official devs. I can understand that people would be disappointed that my work won't let them take screenshots or cheat in games on 5.0+, I find some of the comments here to be awfully disrespectful. especially, people comparing homebrew games to "flappy bird and tic tac toe" are complete dickheqds who have no idea what it's like to make stuff and clearly have never taken a look at how many awesome amateur games were made for the DS.
so yeah. this makes me sad.

I didn't mean any disrespect. The analogy I used was simple what it was. An analogy albeit I could have chosen some better ones but it fits the point that I was trying to make.

Your goal is a noble and lofty goal, to provide people with the tools to compile and run games/apps. However, you need to realise there aren't many devs working on the 3DS for obvious reasons. While you have leapfrogged the scene, it's still far from vibrant with activity. As for the DS scene, homebrew games were plenty because everyone could tinker as they wished with a DS. The possibility for tinkering existed for the DS.

For the 3DS, like I mentioned previously, it will be severely hampered because everyone is walking on eggshells here. Everyone has their reasons and all are valid to themselves but the outcome for the 3DS scene as a whole is stunted development.

Kudos to your work though. Most impressive even though it will be limited to apps/games.

 

[smealum]

I didn't mean any disrespect. The analogy I used was simple what it was. An analogy albeit I could have chosen some better ones but it fits the point that I was trying to make.

Your goal is a noble and lofty goal, to provide people with the tools to compile and run games/apps. However, you need to realise there aren't many devs working on the 3DS for obvious reasons. While you have leapfrogged the scene, it's still far from vibrant with activity. As for the DS scene, homebrew games were plenty because everyone could tinker as they wished with a DS. The possibility for tinkering existed for the DS.

For the 3DS, like I mentioned previously, it will be severely hampered because everyone is walking on eggshells here. Everyone has their reasons and all are valid to themselves but the outcome for the 3DS scene as a whole is stunted development.

Kudos to your work though. Most impressive even though it will be limited to apps/games.

of course you did mean disrespect, you're not kidding anyone. you think games not made by "proper" devs are all shit and you just wish I made it possible to modify the firmware so you can get the features you want. you have no interest in homebrew apps at all and you clearly hold it in contempt.

oh hey. it *is* fun to make wild assumptions about random people isn't it.

either way, "everyone could tinker as they wished with a DS.", guess what, people will be able to do that with their 3DS too. the only reason ssspwn isn't yet available is that it can't yet be used on 7.1, and that we're still working on that. once it's publicly available, guess what, it'll be available to everyone.

 

[robo989]

Actually - not needed, no progress is ever made on the internet

 

[robo989]

of course you did mean disrespect, you're not kidding anyone. you think games not made by "proper" devs are all shit and you just wish I made it possible to modify the firmware so you can get the features you want. you have no interest in homebrew apps at all and you clearly hold it in contempt.

oh hey. it *is* fun to make wild assumptions about random people isn't it.

either way, "everyone could tinker as they wished with a DS.", guess what, people will be able to do that with their 3DS too. the only reason ssspwn isn't yet available is that it can't yet be used on 7.1, and that we're still working on that. once it's publicly available, guess what, it'll be available to everyone.

The world is made up of ignorant fools, we're all ignorant.
Why let that get to you?
Does it really matter?

 

[soulrazor]

i honestly think that what is needed is a solution like the one that smea found.
Most homebrew developers tend to make some games, others some simple apps, and then you have the grey developer the emulator developer.
And all of that is considered by the comunity as acceptable ( i think).
(But for me all of this does not concern me because i updated my 3ds to latest fw and so far i don't regret it.)

 

[daicon]

*snip

There are so many reasons alot of the users here are upset. It comes down to a history of cynical comments, months of 'look but don't touch', and this notion that you're developing DRM.

Sorry but to alot of us you're our best hope at a scene and we've been worried. After time it just keeps echoing this idea that you're holding a moral monopoly on homebrew progress, whether that's true or not.

To be clear, nearly everyone respects you and your decisions, but we still argue about them here..

 

[bostonBC]

The only difference I would make would merely be releasing sooner than later so people can start documenting and creating as much cool stuff together as possible. I wouldn't hold things back, discard work or waste my time trying to devise some sort of DRM.

The funny thing is Sony or Nintendo don't care what a hacker's intentions are. They're not going to read Smea's twitter and think "awww.. he's a nice kid. Let's leave him alone."(Although that may be what he somehow tricked himself into thinking). They sue because they want to make an example to other hackers and offer up a pound of flesh to their holders.

Let a thousand flowers bloom...

Then he should release his work anonymously and let others continue it and assume the risk. Nintendo won't sue all... or anyone based on their lack of efforts squashing the Wii softmod and DS flash cart scene.

 

[Jean Karlo]

honestly, most of the comments here just make me sad. I have a given goal, which is to let people write their own games/apps for the 3DS, with the exact same level of access to the hardware as official devs. I can understand that people would be disappointed that my work won't let them take screenshots or cheat in games on 5.0+, I find some of the comments here to be awfully disrespectful. especially, people comparing homebrew games to "flappy bird and tic tac toe" are complete dickheqds who have no idea what it's like to make stuff and clearly have never taken a look at how many awesome amateur games were made for the DS.
so yeah. this makes me sad.

also, to be clear, I'm not some anti piracy fanatic. I don't care what you people decide to do on your own time, that's your problem. I'm just not interested in being a part of it in any way. I wish more people would respect that, and acknowledge that there may be more factors coming into my decisions than what they think they know about me.

Seriously don't pay attention to lambstone comments, it seems that he just likes disrespecting other people works (developers), when he doesn't do anything.to help... there are people who would love to develop apps for 3ds (like me). And your exploit give us hope to do so. We are not disappointed of your work, we are excited.about it... Don't let spoiled brats who know nothing about programming make you feel bad..

 

[lambstone]

of course you did mean disrespect, you're not kidding anyone. you think games not made by "proper" devs are all shit and you just wish I made it possible to modify the firmware so you can get the features you want. you have no interest in homebrew apps at all and you clearly hold it in contempt.

oh hey. it *is* fun to make wild assumptions about random people isn't it.

either way, "everyone could tinker as they wished with a DS.", guess what, people will be able to do that with their 3DS too. the only reason ssspwn isn't yet available is that it can't yet be used on 7.1, and that we're still working on that. once it's publicly available, guess what, it'll be available to everyone.

Well. That's not very nice of you. God complex is a real medical condition which should be treatable with therapy.

All I did was to list the limitations of SSSpwn and now you've gone and completely blown things out of proportion and out of context. I didn't diss you, I dissed the fact that hacking is a double edged sword with potential for greatness (tweaking the 3ds to our liking) and evil (opening doors to piracy). The fact you chose to interpret it as a personal diss towards you... is...

Yes. I admit I have little interest in homebrew apps. I have little interest in rom loaders either because I'm already invested in Gateway and MT-card. I'm just interested in the 3DS hacking scene becoming like any other traditional hacking scene. Also, its not speculation if most people have expressed concerns about the piracy topic.

 

[Qtis]

It's interesting seeing lots of people commenting that there is little documentation. As far as I know, almost everything ends up in 3dsbrew or other similar sites once discovered. I see no reason for an exploit be released if it resulted in it being patched before being useful. A proper dev library will benefit people more than an exploit released with no means to use it in any way.

As smealum already posted, homebrew is a lot more than simple games. Quite a few games are simple by nature, but then again, so are many games released by multi billion dollar companies. It doesn't mean that homebrew games can't be huge. It just requires the tools to understand the system in order to create something. This is what the homebrew scene is trying to create instead of the generic cheat functions and blatant piracy.

 

[mattrunks]

shots fired

 

[smealum]

Well. That's not very nice of you. God complex is a real medical condition which should be treatable with therapy.

All I did was to list the limitations of SSSpwn and now you've gone and completely blown things out of proportion and out of context. I didn't diss you, I dissed the fact that hacking is a double edged sword with potential for greatness (tweaking the 3ds to our liking) and evil (opening doors to piracy). The fact you chose to interpret it as a personal diss towards you... is...

Yes. I admit I have little interest in homebrew apps. I have little interest in rom loaders either because I'm already invested in Gateway and MT-card. I'm just interested in the 3DS hacking scene becoming like any other traditional hacking scene. Also, its not speculation if most people have expressed concerns about the piracy topic.

I'm not convinced you read what I wrote right. I was not talking about disrespect for me, but disrespect for homebrew.

but ok

edit : after rereading my post I honestly don't see where you think I say you disrespected me ? I'm typing on my phone so my posts aren't super well written, but still

 

[lambstone]

It's interesting seeing lots of people commenting that there is little documentation. As far as I know, almost everything ends up in 3dsbrew or other similar sites once discovered. I see no reason for an exploit be released if it resulted in it being patched before being useful. A proper dev library will benefit people more than an exploit released with no means to use it in any way.

As smealum already posted, homebrew is a lot more than simple games. Quite a few games are simple by nature, but then again, so are many games released by multi billion dollar companies. It doesn't mean that homebrew games can't be huge. It just requires the tools to understand the system in order to create something. This is what the homebrew scene is trying to create instead of the generic cheat functions and blatant piracy.

You know what? I absolute agree. The homebrew scene is exactly about making SDK and find means of running said homebrew games and apps.

HOWEVER, the hacking scene is about well, hacking the shit out of the 3ds. It's the hacking scene that's stagnating, not the homebrew scene.

Just because I keep on listing the current limitations of the hacking scene people seem to interpret it as bad mouthing the homebrew scene.

Homebrew is a subset of Hacking.