Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[tueidj]

Eliminating physical memory cards.
Emulating misc. GC hardware (keyboard, microphone, etc.) with other devices.

As I said, the single sole purpose is clearly not to just be a backup loader (to the point where people have asked if it will be possible to run games directly from discs).

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

Eliminating physical memory cards.
Emulating misc. GC hardware (keyboard, microphone, etc.) with other devices.

As I said, the single sole purpose is clearly not to just be a backup loader (to the point where people have asked if it will be possible to run games directly from discs).

I agree it is impressive to have achieved this at least. And to your credit the sourcecode is available (unlike something like Homebrew Channel), so other people could benefit from the strides you made. (however I think it's only the loader and not the actual meat and potatoes - correct me if I'm wrong?)

In that light, I guess this 'limitation' is something that comes par for the course - although I think given the impressiveness of the project itself, it is a bit of a self-marginalizing move to have people need to resort to these 'verifications' no matter what the moral conundrum might be.

 

[WiiUBricker]

The source of the sample loader is available, not Devolution itself because there is no point making an AP for an open source app (same reason why DM lacks an AP even though crediar at some point intended to include one).

 

[JoostinOnline]

I absolutely LOVE that people think they know tueidj's reasons for doing what he does, and that what he is doing is wrong. It's his own project (created from scratch), he can do what he wants with it. He didn't have to share it, and he isn't requiring donations for it.

 

[duffmmann]

I absolutely LOVE that people think they know tueidj's reasons for doing what he does, and that what he is doing is wrong. It's his own project (created from scratch), he can do what he wants with it. He didn't have to share it, and he isn't requiring donations for it.

Fair enough, but it should be just as fair to ask questions and theorize about what he's done and why. Look at any business, don't tell me you just accept everything that every business does and never ask questions as to why what an aspect of what they do is the way that it is, and if they perhaps have ulterior motives.

 

[JoostinOnline]

I absolutely LOVE that people think they know tueidj's reasons for doing what he does, and that what he is doing is wrong. It's his own project (created from scratch), he can do what he wants with it. He didn't have to share it, and he isn't requiring donations for it.

Fair enough, but it should be just as fair to ask questions and theorize about what he's done and why. Look at any business, don't tell me you just accept everything that every business does and never ask questions as to why what an aspect of what they do is the way that it is, and if they perhaps have ulterior motives.

But to just ignore his answers (which make perfect sense) is idiotic. And that's what several people have been doing.

 

[wiismodrome]

@wiismodrome prior to DM or Dev , did you ever want to be able to play GC games via USB ?

Yes. For many, I think that the attraction of USB/SD loading is the prospect of having one's entire library available without having to use physical discs for each game.

 

[Rydian]

You know, LibretroRetroArch, you seem to enjoy telling people what they should and should not be doing with software on their Wii.

Have you considered a job in Nintendo's AP department?

I mean sure, you and Nintendo have different ideas on what should and should not be done, but you certainly have the attitude down, and that counts a lot nowadays, right?

 

[pwsincd]

@wiismodrome prior to DM or Dev , did you ever want to be able to play GC games via USB ?

Yes. For many, I think that the attraction of USB/SD loading is the prospect of having one's entire library available without having to use physical discs for each game.

then quit the fekkin drivel and either enjoy what others have given you. Assist in the debug sure but biting the fukkin hand that feeds you is geting a little irritating to say the least , saying that this isnt 100% directed at you but all the people that feel the need to condemn this .

I absolutely LOVE that people think they know tueidj's reasons for doing what he does, and that what he is doing is wrong. It's his own project (created from scratch), he can do what he wants with it. He didn't have to share it, and he isn't requiring donations for it.

Fair enough, but it should be just as fair to ask questions and theorize about what he's done and why. Look at any business, don't tell me you just accept everything that every business does and never ask questions as to why what an aspect of what they do is the way that it is, and if they perhaps have ulterior motives.

Businesses being businesses general seek to make a profit from you , and therefore you will have every right to bitch n fukkin moan if your not happy with their "services" , however create and dev something for free, donate it for free , earn nothing from it . I suggest then you accept what you get and be happy and stfu barking.

Rant over ...

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

You know, LibretroRetroArch, you seem to enjoy telling people what they should and should not be doing with software on their Wii.

Have you considered a job in Nintendo's AP department?

I mean sure, you and Nintendo have different ideas on what should and should not be done, but you certainly have the attitude down, and that counts a lot nowadays, right?

Umm, I think you should be looking more at the opposite direction if you get my drift - I wouldn't last five minutes in NIntendo's AP department because I would subvert and destroy it from the inside out the moment I would set foot in their premises. Any guy adding an AP to their software however certainly has the attitude down pat - I agree with you there.

Now, I think I already offered some kind words to the author in question here and his work - and you know my stance on this already - so really, are we done now or do you have more to add? Because this is getting kinda boring and I feel like all that needed to be said has been said already. Not to mention - if this is the best 'snark' you have to provide, then Son, I'm disappoint.

 

[Rydian]

if this is the best 'snark' you have to provide, then Son, I'm disappoint.

You know, there was a point in there. My point was that trying to get other people to comply to your morals (via telling them they should change their actions) is generally not well-accepted on the receiving end, and that the receiving end is not always users in general.

• Wii homebrew enthusiasts are the receiving end from Nintendo. Nitendo tries to force people to comply to Nintendo's ideas about what should and should not be done with the hardware they bought.
• T is the receiving end from many people in this thread. Many people here demand that T change his software to comply to their ideas about what should and should not be done.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

if this is the best 'snark' you have to provide, then Son, I'm disappoint.

You know, there was a point in there. My point was that trying to get other people to comply to your morals (via telling them they should change their actions) is generally not well-accepted on the receiving end, and that the receiving end is not always users in general.

• Wii homebrew enthusiasts are the receiving end from Nintendo. Nitendo tries to force people to comply to Nintendo's ideas about what should and should not be done with the hardware they bought.
• T is the receiving end from many people in this thread. Many people here demand that T change his software to comply to their ideas about what should and should not be done.

Yes, that's what happens when you add restrictions - people inherently don't like it and you get stuff like this. If this software was released as a tool instead, there would be no complaining. A tool can be used for bad or it can be used for good - but you don't take the 'hammer' out of the hammer just because you can possibly bash somebody's skull in with it. A neutered tool no longer is qualified to be called a tool - it should be called a 'toy' instead - because you've taken the 'dangerous' parts out of it under the assumption that the 'audience' 'can't handle responsibility', when it's those 'dangerous parts' that ultimately renders it a tool to begin with.

 

[Rydian]

Er, last I checked USB/SD ISO loading was still intact.

Was that feature taken out of the latest version?

 

[duffmmann]

@wiismodrome prior to DM or Dev , did you ever want to be able to play GC games via USB ?

Yes. For many, I think that the attraction of USB/SD loading is the prospect of having one's entire library available without having to use physical discs for each game.

then quit the fekkin drivel and either enjoy what others have given you. Assist in the debug sure but biting the fukkin hand that feeds you is geting a little irritating to say the least , saying that this isnt 100% directed at you but all the people that feel the need to condemn this .

I absolutely LOVE that people think they know tueidj's reasons for doing what he does, and that what he is doing is wrong. It's his own project (created from scratch), he can do what he wants with it. He didn't have to share it, and he isn't requiring donations for it.

Fair enough, but it should be just as fair to ask questions and theorize about what he's done and why. Look at any business, don't tell me you just accept everything that every business does and never ask questions as to why what an aspect of what they do is the way that it is, and if they perhaps have ulterior motives.

Businesses being businesses general seek to make a profit from you , and therefore you will have every right to bitch n fukkin moan if your not happy with their "services" , however create and dev something for free, donate it for free , earn nothing from it . I suggest then you accept what you get and be happy and stfu barking.

Rant over ...

I have every right to complain as I want, just as you have every right to say quit your bitching. Get over it.

 

[Jacobeian]

As much as i dislike the AP in devolution (since i sold all my gc games long time ago and have no intention to buy them again), i am so much thankful to tueidj for having bravely chosen this road when i see how much it pisses some people off and frustrate them so much that they cannot do anything against it but continuously posting their rage or attacking his own way of thinking

It's so enjoyable, quite as much as the arrival of newcomer from other "scenes" giving their "refreshing" opinions about piracy as if it wasn't already the opinion of 90% of people here on GBATemp. And LOL at the "what the other scenes think about the wii scene" (hmm, sound similar to the "i can tell you what other devs think about you users" you apparently like to resort a lot to in order to backdraw your arguments or make them more valid maybe ?), remind me of kids who like to think they are part of the coolest gang . @Libretroarch, NOBODY with a sane mind gives a shit about that, and on that matter, the wii scene is as much turned to piracy than any others, everything has always been done to make it as much user friendly as possible. Now, from time to time, I personally think it's great to have at least a few talented and dedicated individuals who like to think differently from what the mass users are expecting, be it people like you or tuedj.

 

[SifJar]

Yes, that's what happens when you add restrictions - people inherently don't like it and you get stuff like this. If this software was released as a tool instead, there would be no complaining. A tool can be used for bad or it can be used for good - but you don't take the 'hammer' out of the hammer just because you can possibly bash somebody's skull in with it. A neutered tool no longer is qualified to be called a tool - it should be called a 'toy' instead - because you've taken the 'dangerous' parts out of it under the assumption that the 'audience' 'can't handle responsibility', when it's those 'dangerous parts' that ultimately renders it a tool to begin with.

This is just plain stupid. As Rydian pointed out, the "hammer" of Devolution is loading games from SD and USB; guess what, that hasn't been removed. It's unlikely to be removed, as that would sort of negate the purpose of Devolution. Your argument is quite flawed in that you say you can't remove the "hammer" from a hammer, as that would render it useless; true. But if there was a way to prevent it from being used to smash people's skulls in with, while still allowing it to be used for hammering nails etc., I'd be fairly confident such a thing would be done. And that is what is happening with Devolution.

 

[wiismodrome]

then quit the fekkin drivel and either enjoy what others have given you. Assist in the debug sure but biting the fukkin hand that feeds you is geting a little irritating to say the least , saying that this isnt 100% directed at you but all the people that feel the need to condemn this .

Oh...I dunno... in this case the metaphor might be better phrased as "biting the hand that slaps you". But thanks for sharing your perspective. It is good to know a little about people's motivations. It would seem that some people think that others should not offer criticism, whether that criticism is valid or not, because they are afraid it might cause the author might stop working on it for them. Sorry, but I'm not seeing any sort of altruistic or praiseworthy behavior here. Given how users are treated, it does not appear that there is any selflessness or humility on display at all. I think that the program itself is a great idea. But that does not mean that I have to agree with the implementation, nor approve of the actions of the programmer. Dissent, as long as it is expressed with civility, is a necessary part of a healthy community.

 

[Rydian]

Dissent, as long as it is expressed with civility, is a necessary part of a healthy community.

And imagined paranoia is a sign that something's wrong.

I don't even have a Wii, I don't fear anything the author does or does not do.

What I'm here defending is the author's right to make some homebrew the way he wants it.

And of course fighting the batshit-insane claims that Devolution somehow takes away rights and abilities that existed before...

 

[wiismodrome]

And imagined paranoia is a sign that something's wrong.

I don't even have a Wii, I don't fear anything the author does or does not do.

What I'm here defending is the author's right to make some homebrew the way he wants it.

And of course fighting the batshit-insane claims that Devolution somehow takes away rights and abilities that existed before...

Fear? Paranoia? Has someone stopped taking their meds? Been to see a psychiatrist recently?

Not sure what you're talking about. I'm not afraid of anyone here, though there does seem to be a lot of strange cognitive and group bias in these parts.

As for the last statement, I doubt that anyone has actually made such claims, at least if what they said was interpreted properly. That sounds like more of the same selective reading that some people like to do in order to mock others as a strategic way to dismiss what they say instead of engaging in honest discussion.

 

[Rydian]

Fear? Paranoia? Has someone stopped taking their meds? Been to see a psychiatrist recently?

Not sure what you're talking about. I'm not afraid of anyone here, though there does seem to be a lot of strange cognitive and group bias in these parts.

I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about what you imagine others to be thinking, that you imagine them to be acting out of fear.

As for the last statement, I doubt that anyone has actually made such claims, at least if what they said was interpreted properly. That sounds like more of the same selective reading that some people like to do in order to mock others as a strategic way to dismiss what they say instead of engaging in honest discussion.

"Because of devolution I can't play my games", things like that.