Yet another Windows 8 / Metro argument

[nl255]

All good and valid points. So... presuming there's no app designed around for taking notes against videos (hmm I sniff a gap in the market if I can ever get my *** in gear) then how much of a hardship is it to have the video playing full screen. Pause and switch to a fullscreen notepad, then switching back to the fullscreen video? Well... the way Windows 8 currently deals with task switching... it *is* a hardship, but that's a flaw in Microsoft's implementation of full screen apps, not in concept itself.

Or just you know, use a pencil and paper until someone gets around to making such a video app. I think it is much more of a pain in the ass to have to set up a Linux server to act as a POP3 to IMAP proxy because Mail doesn't support POP3 any more. Oh, and my Windows 8 system is touchscreen, voice, and Metro only as the desktop is completely disabled. Hint: Windows 8 Embedded lets you remove/disable pretty much anything you want.

 

[nl255]

[Citation Needed]

Ask Microsoft or just look at their marketing materials as to how keyboards/mice are obsolete and touch/voice is the future. Or why don't you ask Valve who are porting Steam and all their games to Linux because they don't believe that Windows as a traditional desktop OS will be around much longer. Yes, they specifically ported Steam and the Source engine to Linux because they realize that newer APIs like DirectX 13 will be Metro/Modern only and that desktop mode will eventually go the way of the dodo in favor of the locked down Metro/Modern system that only allows you to run software from the Windows Store.

 

[The Milkman]

What part of you aren't supposed to use the desktop because it is depreciated and for legacy software only don't you get? In the version of Windows after Blue the desktop will be gone completely and will only exist as a modified copy of Windows 7/8 running in VM software with no 3D acceleration (and thus no CUDA/DXVA support either).

What the hell says its legacy software? If you arent supposed to use the desktop why would they ADD features in not only 8 but also Blue? How about you cite some goddamn sources.

I have and it is a royal pain in the ass. Typing using an on screen keyboard for any length of time is quite painful and having to buy a few more monitors to work around the whole "only full screen apps" thing is out of my budget. Not to mention having to set up a POP3 to IMAP proxy because the Mail software only supports IMAP or Exchange.

On-screen keyboard?! WHAT!? ANY version of windows you use the on-screen is a pain in the ass. What are you using that RT shit on Surface? THAT sucks. Nothings wrong with x86 Win 8 though.


EDIT: Just read your other posts, let this be flat-out known. Windows RT/Mobile fucking sucks. This topic doesnt pertain to it otherwise we would be saying Android is better rather then Windows 7.

 

[The Milkman]

How about you read my complaint before giving the wrong answer. I have been using Windows from version 3.x, one of the most useful things, it to have MANY windows and applications open and visible, NOT ONLY TWO.

[quote="Haloman800, post: 4620626, member: 235972"Windows 8 might be good for a tablet interface, but it is horrible for a desktop/laptop setup.. It convolutes everything and makes simple tasks much harder...

Agreed.[/quote]

How about you learn how to use the operating system before you go and cause a whole other thread to be made because of it.

 

[Rydian]

Ask Microsoft or just look at their marketing materials as to how keyboards/mice are obsolete and touch/voice is the future.

That's not citation on stating what the next version is going to do.

That's your own theory.

 

[nl255]

What the hell says its legacy software? If you arent supposed to use the desktop why would they ADD features in not only 8 but also Blue? How about you cite some goddamn sources.




On-screen keyboard?! WHAT!? ANY version of windows you use the on-screen is a pain in the ass. What are you using that RT shit on Surface? THAT sucks. Nothings wrong with x86 Win 8 though.

Well then they must have changed their minds then. Otherwise why would Valve go to all the trouble of porting both Steam and the Source engine to Linux if they didn't see the writing on the wall that Metro/Modern and a locked down Microsoft App Store was the future of Windows?



A customized Win 8 embedded install (as there is no version of 7lite for Windows 8 yet) on x86.

 

[nl255]

Agreed.

How about you learn how to use the operating system before you go and cause a whole other thread to be made because of it.[/quote]

That's what this is about, the operating system in question being Windows 8/Metro. Yes you can use third party hacks like Start8 and that one that lets you run Metro apps in regular windows but that isn't really using the operating system as you can't really call it Windows 8 anymore once so many low level changes have been made.

 

[nl255]

That's not citation on stating what the next version is going to do.

That's your own theory.

Ok, then so why did Valve spend a crapton of money porting Steam/Source over to Linux?

 

[Rydian]

Ok, then so why did Valve spend a crapton of money porting Steam/Source over to Linux?

A couple possible reasons.
1 - To be able to sell products to Linux users easily. There's lots of Linux users, and while some of them use Steam and Steam-bought games, it's generally difficult for them to do this. By doing it natively, they make the process simpler and get more customers. This means more sales, which means money.
2 - "Steam boxes" are likely to run Linux, due to the cost of licensing Windows. Developing and testing the platform needs to be done before any of the products can come out of course. If they release a useless product, they will not make money. If they release a useful product, they stand a good chance of making some money.
3 - To get Linux developers using Steam, which means more products on Steam, and Steam gets a cut of every sale.

And again, you're talking theories. You have no citation or proof, just your own personal speculation. You may want to go read up on things like "the scientific method", "fact versus opinion", and the like.

 

[The Milkman]

Rydains response was better and nicer.

 

[The Milkman]

How about you learn how to use the operating system before you go and cause a whole other thread to be made because of it.

That's what this is about, the operating system in question being Windows 8/Metro. Yes you can use third party hacks like Start8 and that one that lets you run Metro apps in regular windows but that isn't really using the operating system as you can't really call it Windows 8 anymore once so many low level changes have been made.[/quote]

Im not saying mod your operating system, im saying flat-out learn to use it. Everything hes complained about can be solved with a Win key command, or just opening up Desktop, which is also a Win Key command. And how the hell is Start 8 a hack? You people do realize theres more to programs then clicking a desktop icon and opening a Window, right?

 

[evandixon]

By the way, the new UI was designed for touch. Full-screen apps and, well, everything is quite nice on my Surface Pro. On my desktop (which I'm using right now), I mainly use desktop mode, and the ONLY negative difference is that the start button isn't visible. So just click in the corner where it used to be and you'll go to the start screen. Just type in what app you want (just like you could since Vista) and there you go.

(Unless you just don't like it because it's a little different. Then... whatever. Use Windows 7 if you want.)

 

[The Milkman]

By the way, the new UI was designed for touch. Full-screen apps and, well, everything is quite nice on my Surface Pro. On my desktop (which I'm using right now), I mainly use desktop mode, and the ONLY negative difference is that the start button isn't visible. So just click in the corner where it used to be and you'll go to the start screen. Just type in what app you want (just like you could since Vista) and there you go.

(Unless you just don't like it because it's a little different. Then... whatever. Use Windows 7 if you want.)

Thank you! Logic! Use Windows 7 if you dont like how 8 lays out, but dont go and blame the OS, its the same thing as Windows 7 but with the Metro interface!

 

[nl255]

That's what this is about, the operating system in question being Windows 8/Metro. Yes you can use third party hacks like Start8 and that one that lets you run Metro apps in regular windows but that isn't really using the operating system as you can't really call it Windows 8 anymore once so many low level changes have been made.

Im not saying mod your operating system, im saying flat-out learn to use it. Everything hes complained about can be solved with a Win key command, or just opening up Desktop, which is also a Win Key command. And how the hell is Start 8 a hack? You people do realize theres more to programs then clicking a desktop icon and opening a Window, right?[/quote]

Even if Start 8 is not a hack, ModernMix definitely is as Metro/Modern apps were never supposed to be run in a window. It's no different than that hack that was used to make EverQuest run in windowed mode or that GBA hypervisor that works on the DS despite not having a MMU. Unless you are trying to claim that things like API hooking and patching software in memory (yes, just like a gameshark) aren't hacks.

 

[The Milkman]

Im not saying mod your operating system, im saying flat-out learn to use it. Everything hes complained about can be solved with a Win key command, or just opening up Desktop, which is also a Win Key command. And how the hell is Start 8 a hack? You people do realize theres more to programs then clicking a desktop icon and opening a Window, right?

Even if Start 8 is not a hack, ModernMix definitely is as Metro/Modern apps were never supposed to be run in a window. It's no different than that hack that was used to make EverQuest run in windowed mode or that GBA hypervisor that works on the DS despite not having a MMU. Unless you are trying to claim that things like API hooking and patching software in memory (yes, just like a gameshark) aren't hacks.[/quote]

"Hmm, hes right about the fact the one mod he stated by name wasnt a hack, let me go and bring up a shitload of other ones that have no bearing on the thread!"

Im done discussing this with you.

 

[Minox]

Otherwise why would Valve go to all the trouble of porting both Steam and the Source engine to Linux if they didn't see the writing on the wall that Metro/Modern and a locked down Microsoft App Store was the future of Windows?

Because they want to guard themselves against such a possibility even though it may never see the light of day? They're essentially putting their eggs in several baskets so that one company's demise wouldn't necessarily mean the end of all their "eggs" (or Valve itself for that matter ;p).

 

[spinal_cord]

Thank you! Logic! Use Windows 7 if you dont like how 8 lays out, but dont go and blame the OS, its the same thing as Windows 7 but with the Metro interface!

1. Most, if not all new PCs generally come with Windows 8 preinstalled. Should we buy a new PC (when we need one of course), which in the price includes a Windows 8 licence, the go out a buy a second windows licence this time for windows 7, paying twice for the an OS which shouldn't be broken in the first place?
2. Learn to use a TABLET OS on a DESKTOP computer, which is both difficult and bad, OR have to click a shortcut on boot up to get out of an interface that should be an extra feature, not a default setting. Better yet, install some third party applications to restore features that have been a staple of desktop computing for about twenty years...

The bottom line is, a tablet OS should behave differently from a desktop OS, Apple learned this already, you don't see people complaining that their Mac OS is stuck with only fullscreen applications, no menus etc. do you? Because Apple didn't force a mobile OS onto it's desktop users.

Windows 8 seems perfectly fine for tablet use, where screen resolution is smaller and input methods are different. However it runs two entirely different interfaces at the same time, which is confusing and just plain daft. The old 'desktop' interface (with start menu) should be the default on a desktop computer, with no sight or sound of the new 'Metro' interface, as that is what people have been using for thirty years, there's a reason for that, IT WORKS.

I not give up on this topic and wont even look at windows again until Windows 9, or whatever silly name they come up with. It has been interesting though.

 

[The Milkman]

1. Most, if not all new PCs generally come with Windows 8 preinstalled. Should we buy a new PC (when we need one of course), which in the price includes a Windows 8 licence, the go out a buy a second windows licence this time for windows 7, paying twice for the an OS which shouldn't be broken in the first place?

Different =\= broken. Nobody is forcing you to buy Windows 7 with your Windows 8 PC.

2. Learn to use a TABLET OS on a DESKTOP computer, which is both difficult and bad, OR have to click a shortcut on boot up to get out of an interface that should be an extra feature, not a default setting. Better yet, install some third party applications to restore features that have been a staple of desktop computing for about twenty years...

Heres an idea, learn the fucking Win key commands, it takes like, 20 minutes and everything becomes much less harder.

The bottom line is, a tablet OS should behave differently from a desktop OS, Apple learned this already, you don't see people complaining that their Mac OS is stuck with only fullscreen applications, no menus etc. do you? Because Apple didn't force a mobile OS onto it's desktop users.

I see people being brain washed into using that shit OS on overpriced hardware.

Windows 8 seems perfectly fine for tablet use, where screen resolution is smaller and input methods are different. However it runs two entirely different interfaces at the same time, which is confusing and just plain daft. The old 'desktop' interface (with start menu) should be the default on a desktop computer, with no sight or sound of the new 'Metro' interface, as that is what people have been using for thirty years, there's a reason for that, IT WORKS.

Learn the Win keys, it makes it much easier to do anything on it.

I not give up on this topic and wont even look at windows again until Windows 9, or whatever silly name they come up with. It has been interesting though.

Honestly, you sound like some guy from the 80s trying to use an iPod touch and saying its broken because it has no buttons and his walkman had better songs on it. If your too stubborn to learn how to use a OS, or just plain out dont like it, your problem. But that doesnt mean the OS is broken. Litteraly, take a second to learn how to use it and all your complaints become invalid.

 

[FireGrey]

Getting rid of the Start Menu was one of the dumbest moves Microsoft has ever done. They execs and Windows programmers actually got in a fight over adding it back in Windows 8.1 (Which is an update coming). You can see the demand for it by all the Start menu replacements (Start8, StartIsBack, ClassicShell, etc).

Windows 8 might be good for a tablet interface, but it is horrible for a desktop/laptop setup.. It convolutes everything and makes simple tasks much harder, half the users couldn't even figure out how to turn it off without looking it up online.

Windows 8 is a failure, and that won't change even if they add back the Start menu. You can't change first impressions, which is why Vista is regarded as a failure (Even though service pack 1 fixed most of the problems).

Why are people steamed about there not being a start button there?
There is technically one there, just flick your mouse to the bottom left corner of your screen and click, it bring you to the start menu no problem and from there you can just mash some letters on your keyboard and it will search for files and programs in a fast and organised manner.
Oh and a note on how spinal_cord was saying that it's confusing how windows 8 runs two different interfaces at the same time, it's not confusing once you have used the OS and learnt how to use it and you are basically complaining about windows 8 because you haven't learnt how to use it but have learnt how to use other operating systems.
This OS has a lot more to offer than just being 'Windows 7 + Metro", it's performance is far greater on better hardware and I've used Windows 8 for about the same time as I have Windows 7 on my custom built PC.

 

[spinal_cord]

But that doesnt mean the OS is broken.

If it's not broken, then why are Microsoft 'fixing' it?

I see people being brain washed into using that shit OS on overpriced hardware.

I once had that attitude, however after actually using a Mac, I find that it does a lot of things better than Windows (somethings not so good though). Brainwashing doesn't come into it. Also Apple hardware is a similar price to PC hardware and the OS is much cheaper.