Yet another Windows 8 / Metro argument

[Rydian]

Unfortunately, no. But if this is the case, you must feel right at home in the metro start screen!

I'm divided about it, since I don't have as much freedom to move and group things as I used to. Specifically shoving things into corners, they still like to stand out.

Then why the desktop icons?

Desktop icons are things I use on an everyday (or nearly every day) basis, the start menu's search function is for everything else. Any Video Converter? "Any" and hit enter. Audacity? "Au", enter. IcoFX, Speccy, Stepmania, etc.

When I move to 8 or above I'll likely just need a new shortcut key for it.

While I am not familiar enough with Windows Vista or 7 to comment on what is or isn't hardware accelerated in the GUI, I can definitely assure you that not all of it is. Specifically, rendering the text and the images is not. To see what I mean, try opening a large image in some of the default apps, or scrolling through a very text- and image-heavy document in Office 2010. The guys at Microsoft explain it better than I, though: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...celerating-everything-windows-8-graphics.aspx

DirectWrite came out with 7, and an update gave it to Vista too, but I'm glad to see they focused on improving the APIs most commonly-used now.

In regards to Aero, I would hazard that being able to turn it on and off was more to conserve memory that processing power (it eats on the order of 100MB of RAM).

No, turning it off was used if the GPU was shitty, or if an old program that doesn't support compositing (like BGB, the emulator) needs to run.

 

[Pleng]

Desktop icons are things I use on an everyday (or nearly every day) basis, the start menu's search function is for everything else. Any Video Converter? "Any" and hit enter. Audacity? "Au", enter. IcoFX, Speccy, Stepmania, etc.

You can pin anything you use frequently as a tile on the windows metro start page. So press start - click on something you use often, or start typing to get to something you use left often.

 

[Arm73]

Am I the only person who uses icons on the desktop anymore?

No sir, I use icons too.
In fact, I have them all nicely alined and sorted by type ( games, apps, utility ) and I rarely, ever use the start button in Windows 7.

That's why I don't understand why so many people are frigging crying over the absence of the start menu in Windows 8 !
Honestly, there are plenty of shortcuts and if you type something ( just anything, no win+key combination ) in metro like the first 3 letters of Notepad for example, Windows 8 searches for every possible match in settings, applications, documents etc... and it's mighty efficient at that.

Windows 8 is not perfect by all means, but now that I got used to it, I'm really enjoying it ( for other valid points made by PityOnU ).
On my system I have both 7 and 8 in dual boot.
Over the months, I find myself booting into 8 much more often then 7, to the point that today I keep the Windows 7 partition ONLY in case something doesn't run well in 8 ( never happened so far ) or in case my main OS gets screwed up and I need something to fall back to( you know with all the torrents and stuff I get from the internet these days ).

What I don't understand, is why everybody is crying over the missing Start button when clearly the best feature of it was the power down button ( which I replaced with a shortcut on my desktop and an icon in metro ).

I love to check my multiple mails and the weather in Windows 8 UI, when I'm done I just click on the Firefox icon and life continues smoothly as usual in our good old desktop environment.

I hate whiners.
Deal with it.
(Not exactly my words, just a citation ).

 

[Rydian]

My complaint isn't specifically about the start menu as I rarely actually click it. My main complaint is how the Metro design in general is a step back from... everything.

 

[raulpica]

This thread was split from the "Windows 3.1" thread.

 

[The Milkman]

You know if you ask me the main problem with Windows 8 isnt the OS itself, its fine. Honestly all you have to do is maybe a quick tweak for a Start Menu and your done. The problem with Windows 8 is people who seem to think after looking at a quick FAQ or listening to what communities say about it, and assume they know everything about it. Even worse are those who try it for a week and assume they too also know everything about it. Its not difficult, its not slow, its not clunky and it doesnt lock you into a tablet interface. All it does is put it there and give you the legacy desktop. Thats all. Everything else is only better from Win7, Task Manger is much more detailed, Accounts feel more personalized, certain things people often use computers for (like Netflix) become much easier to access and use with an actual dedicated app.

All Mircosoft did was make the Start Menu full-screen. Thats it.

 

[The Catboy]

I'm not that big a fan of Windows 8, I gave it a try, but it wasn't my thing.
Then again I am rather bias when it comes down Windows and never really cared for anything past XP.

 

[Kwartel]

I can't imagine getting back to Windows 7. The new start menu (which Modern UI just is) is so much better than the previous start menu. It needs some polishing, but that will come in 8.1. It's just nice that you have a better overview of your search entries with it being fullscreen. It's also easier to organise your shortcuts if you have a bunch of programs you only use occasionally. I have everything I use daily pinned on my taskbar and everything else ready for use on my ModernUI. Seriously, once you get used to it, it's so much better than that stupid small startmenu.

 

[The Milkman]

The only thing I really dont like about Metro is it doesnt feel very customizable. I would like to change how my tiles are colored and what scheme they should revolve around, but other then that, I use Start Menu for anything that my desktop doesnt have.

 

[Rydian]

The only thing I really dont like about Metro is it doesnt feel very customizable. I would like to change how my tiles are colored and what scheme they should revolve around, but other then that, I use Start Menu for anything that my desktop doesnt have.

That'll likely come in the future, either in a platform update or Windows 9.

I say this based off of XP's uxtheme.dll design issues.

 

[spinal_cord]

Well, I had another play about with Win8 and still hate it. The start menu was introduced for convenience, it's something I really miss when using my Mac, that and the taskbar/system tray. Both things seem to be missing (by default) in Win8. Yes I know, I can ckick the 'desktop' tile, but I shouldn't need to. Win8 is clearly not designed with desktop users in mind, I can see very well how much better it would be an a tablet, but trying to use it on a desktop, having mouse movement on a trackpad constantly mistaken for touch gestures is a little more than irritating. Sure, full screen only apps on a tablet, fine, on a desktop, not in a million years. When I'm using multiple applications (especially on a large screen) I tend to have many windows spread out all over, with a section of each clearly visible at all times, so I can just click on of those sections to bring that window forward. Yet again, usability option removed. Me and those of my friends that have been forced to use Win8, are sad to see Win7 removed from the market place and hope that like Vista, Me and other such versions of Windows, Win8 is replaced in a hurry, especially for desktop use.

 

[Arm73]

............ Me and those of my friends that have been forced to use Win8, are sad to see Win7 removed from the market place and hope that like Vista, Me and other such versions of Windows, Win8 is replaced in a hurry, especially for desktop use.

Wow.....replaced in a hurry ?
How about a little update that gives you the option to boot to desktop instead, would that put you and your friends out of your misery ?

Like I said, once in desktop mode you cannot possibly miss windows 7, as it's all there and improved.
Is the absence of the start menu really such a big deal ?
Don't you have shortcuts on your desktop for your application and games like the rest of us ?

 

[sentinel5000]

This is actually pretty easy to solve, just go get Stardock's Start8 and ModernMix and your problems are solved. Make Windows 8 more like Windows 7 and make those full screen apps run inside windows .

 

[PityOnU]

I am continually surprised that no one ever actually has valid reasons why Windows 8 is worse than previous iterations of the operating system. They are generally a) mis- or under-informed or b) simply hateful towards it because it is different.

I an attempt to not be labeled a "Microsoft fanboy," here are some genuine issues with the new OS that can be seen as a step down from Windows 7, or just generally problematic:

1. Although you can set the OS to use desktop mode exclusively (yes, you can!), you can't disable the charms bar on the right hand side of the screen. This is problematic if you go to use the scrollbar or the close button in traditional applications. It always pops up!
2. GPU acceleration of the entire OS is fantastic, but you sure better hope your graphics card/chipset has good drivers. They made a lot of improvements to graphics drivers and recovery from failures this time around, but the thing will still lock up if your drivers aren't water tight.
3. You can no longer use 64-bit IE. Sure, you can launch the 64-bit executable, but it only acts as a wrapper for the 32-bit version. Until very recently, the 32-bit version of Flash that is bundle with IE would crash if I had more than say 4 videos open at once.
4. It's more difficult to manually launch the "Optional Updates" control panel applet. I manually install updates, and in Windows 7 I could just search "update" and it would be first on the list. In Windows 8, I have to search and then click the "Settings" category to find it.
5. There was no intro-video/tour of how to use the new OS/desktop mode. This would definitely confuse a lot of people. Even Android has the little helper overlays pop up the first time you use it. For example, if you mash your cursor into the bottom left side of the desktop and click, "Oh hey, that's the start button now! It's still there, it's just invisible!"

 

[The Milkman]

Well, I had another play about with Win8 and still hate it. The start menu was introduced for convenience, it's something I really miss when using my Mac, that and the taskbar/system tray. Both things seem to be missing (by default) in Win8. Yes I know, I can ckick the 'desktop' tile, but I shouldn't need to.

Then download a fucking program that boots it directly to desktop. Are you going to say Windows is broken because Internet Explorer is shit, or are you going to download a better web browser?

Win8 is clearly not designed with desktop users in mind, I can see very well how much better it would be an a tablet,

The metro interface was designed to provide familarity and compatiblity to people who used Win Mobile, or to tablet users in general, it simplifies it for people who dont know how to use computers if you provide an interface that feels the same. Plus, if you havent noticed most of the devices that support Win 8 are ultrabooks or x86 based tablets.


but trying to use it on a desktop, having mouse movement on a trackpad constantly mistaken for touch gestures is a little more than irritating.

What kind of track pad are you using? I use my own quite a bit and if anything I have troubles getting Windows to recognize im doing a gesture, and even that happens rarely.

Sure, full screen only apps on a tablet, fine, on a desktop, not in a million years. When I'm using multiple applications (especially on a large screen) I tend to have many windows spread out all over, with a section of each clearly visible at all times, so I can just click on of those sections to bring that window forward.

A) You can run two apps side by side and change easily switch these apps with a click and flick.

B) YOU CAN DO THAT, ITS CALLED USING DESKTOP.

Yet again, usability option removed. Me and those of my friends that have been forced to use Win8, are sad to see Win7 removed from the market place and hope that like Vista, Me and other such versions of Windows, Win8 is replaced in a hurry, especially for desktop use.

FOR WHAT?! Its perfectly fine, its not like ME or Vista which were cripplingly slow and clunky. All they did was change how the Start menu works, thats it.

Once again I say it, sit down, and actually take time to learn how the operating system works before you haul off saying it doesnt work. Dont try it for a week, dont try it for two weeks, sit down and dedicate yourself to using it for a month and actually learn shit about using it. Every single thing you've complained about is already solved in the OS, if you dont want to learn how to ride a bike, dont go and return it to the store saying its broken.

 

[Rydian]

2. GPU acceleration of the entire OS is fantastic, but you sure better hope your graphics card/chipset has good drivers. They made a lot of improvements to graphics drivers and recovery from failures this time around, but the thing will still lock up if your drivers aren't water tight.

Opposed to XP and below, where a driver crash would cause a BSoD, I think the NT 6 method of unloading the driver is better. Yet, it kills whatever is using hardware acceleration at the moment and needs to reload explorer, but that's better than the whole computer, 'ya know?

 

[Joe88]

im sure all 10 users that own windows tablets and phones are very appreciative

 

[The Milkman]

im sure all 10 users that own windows tablets and phones are very appreciative

Im going to guess you were responding to me.

I didnt mention windows tablets and phones were the only things. Its a scrolling, non-page based simple interface with large extremely descriptive icons and is quite colorful. Do you remember what Windows mobile was advertised around? Being simple, quick and easy to access, it was supposed to be the kind of phone you glance at and get all the information you need. You dont have to had used a Windows device before to open up desktop or Windows Store or listen to music on Windows 8, just touch the title you want. My 7 year old niece was able to pick up on using my laptop faster then my desktop just because of the Metro interface, seeing how the adverage household has maybe two computers at max that the family shares, making your computer operate more like a tablet could be one of the most adaptive moves mircosoft has ever made.

 

[Arm73]

Besides, the start menu is still there, you can't see it but it's actually better then ever.
Somebody should come up with a painted orb in the lower left corner so people would stop bitching about the missing start menu.

Yeah, I little orb just like on 7 that brings you to windows 8 start screen ( instead of just clicking in the corner ).
It would look different, but hey, nobody will complain about it anymore !
That, and a setting to boot directly to desktop or whatever you were when you shot it off, two ridiculously little things that would shot up a lot of people IMO.

 

[GamerzHell9137]

I like W8.
Its faster than 7 but most of my games doesn't work on it, that's why i changed back to 7.