Yet again, Americans prove just how pathetic they are

[TrolleyDave]

"Marxism is an Obama-Nation" I didn't know we were communist now. I didn't know that Marxism was actually bad. Communism as it is right now is bad, but Marxism at least had some good points to it...

I found a lot of your post questionable, but I just wanted to know what some of the good points of Marxism were. And how it isn't Communism.

If it's any consolation though, I agree America has more or less turned to shit over the past decades.

I can't be arsed to go through the thread to find out if someone answered you but I'll give you a couple of good points of Marxism. And Marxism is Communism. What isn't Communism is Stalinism, Maoism and Jungism. Even Cuba isn't really Communist. There hasn't been a truely Communist country yet.

Some good points of Marxism :

Banks are state owned, not private. In otherwords your bank works for you and is there to help you, not earn massive amounts of money from you.

All workers are entitled to a share of the profits of the company they work for. The amount they're entitled to to depends on effort put in and productivity. So a factory worker could earn just as much as his boss depending on how hard he worked. Always remember, a manager would have no job if there were no workers - but there'd still be jobs if there were no managers.

Health care is socialised. I don't understand this huge fuss you Americans have about socialised health care. What kind of person wouldn't give money towards making sure that all their fellow citizens got adequate medical care, unless they're greedy and self centered. I always see Americans going on about how patriotic they are, caring for your fellow citizen is part of patriotism.

Communism is a hall of alot more democratic than Capitalism. Every citizen gets a vote in how things are run, from your community and your work right up to government level. The government wants to set a policy? They need the country's permission first.

Under Communism the government is there to do the will of the people, not to tell the people their will. The party in power is strictly for administration. They're not doing their job? Then the people say "Bollocks to you, you're out" and vote someone else in.

Under Communism the government controls national public services. Stuff like public transport, electricity, water etc. The services are run for minimal profit and delivered to the public as cheaply as possible. No more paying a fortune for necessities so that some guy can take his mistress to the Bahamas.

Everyone is entitled to equal rights, from the factory worker to the party leader.

Education is top priority under Communism. What's the point in having an uneducated and illiterate country? The better educated they are the more chance there is of them leading a productive life.

Under Communism free speech is far more important than the sham that's presented to us now.

Under Communism social ideals are more important than the acquisition of wealth.

Communism stresses guiding people on the right path for themselves based on what they're good at it.

----------

The actual Communist manifesto is tiny, no bigger than most political manifestos. To truly understand it you need to learn about Marx and Engels, and what they taught and believed in. Communism isn't the monster it's made out to be, and on the whole is a much more democratic and has more humanitarian goals than Capitalism.

edit : Fixed the wording in one sentence. Noticed it read wrong when Hidoshi quoted it!

 

[Hidoshi]

Hey you're the one that gets their info spoon fed from propaganda without thinking. Moron, idiot. I've seen it up close all social programs do is create corruption and keep people poor. That is where the real crime is. People can't ever reach potential under those circumstances. Name one time it's ever worked. All the poor people that live around me are treated like dogs where the government keeps them in shitty housing and pays them not to work. Then if they get a job they get booted from the rolls so they never have the incentive to better themselves.
Wow are you serious? You've seen it up close? I live in the Netherlands and it works PRETTY well. Everyone who's working pays some tax to the government to help people who cannot work anymore or are temporary without a job. How is this 'keeping people poor' ? You just pay tax, don't know how much it is, but it's not 50% ..so it doesn't make you poor.
Here you can not be fired for no reason, nor can you leave instantly. So that's benificial for both parties. You won't have to worry that you'll be fired from one day to another and your boss won't have to worry that he has an empty space from one day to another.

If you work and can't work anymore for some reason (temporary or not) you get 70% of your previous paycheck every month. When you don't have a job the government encourages (sometimes even helps) you to get a job. If you do not look for a job, then you won't get the 70% every month anymore, so people will look for another job. That is except when you can't work anymore because of an accident or something, other measures are taken then. CBA to explain, that'll take too long.

So I don't understand where you get the 'real crime' from, because this is a really good system. The richer you are the more tax you pay, so only the really rich have a small disadvantage to live in this country.


QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ Mar 21 2010, 11:54 PM) Health care is socialised. I don't understand this huge fuss you Americans have about socialised health care. What kind of greedy self centered person wouldn't give money towards making sure that all their fellow citizens got adequate medical care. I always see Americans going on about how patriotic they are, caring for your fellow citizen is part of patriotism.

Everyone is entitled to equal rights, from the factory worker to the party leader.

Finally someone else (from GB, not America that's the best part xD) that notices it. Socialized health care is the best! Doctors still get paid plenty money (they live a luxurious live) and PEOPLE THAT ARE SICK DONT HAVE TO WORRY THAT THEY CAN'T PAY THE BILL. What's wrong with that?
I love 'Sicko' from Michael Moore. Even though he exaggerates sometimes he does have a lot of points in Sicko. People should watch it!

That's all that I have to say right now ^^

 

[wyndcrosser]

It's America... that's why it became the way it is. F-ck you. (FLAME WAR STARTS). I love this country, we have our issues, but there is no better country. Go... visit other countries and you'll see there isn't anything better.

Wynd

 

[TrolleyDave]

It's America... that's why it became the way it is. F-ck you. (FLAME WAR STARTS). I love this country, we have our issues, but there is no better country. Go... visit other countries and you'll see there isn't anything better.

Wynd

How about France, Sweden, The Netherlands, Belgium and Great Britain? I'd consider them all superior to the USA. What makes America the best country in the world?

Hey you're the one that gets their info spoon fed from propaganda without thinking. Moron, idiot. I've seen it up close all social programs do is create corruption and keep people poor. That is where the real crime is. People can't ever reach potential under those circumstances. Name one time it's ever worked. All the poor people that live around me are treated like dogs where the government keeps them in shitty housing and pays them not to work. Then if they get a job they get booted from the rolls so they never have the incentive to better themselves.

And you think Capitalism defers corruption? It's one of the most easily corruptible political systems there is.

QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ Mar 21 2010, 11:54 PM)

Health care is socialised. I don't understand this huge fuss you Americans have about socialised health care. What kind of greedy self centered person wouldn't give money towards making sure that all their fellow citizens got adequate medical care. I always see Americans going on about how patriotic they are, caring for your fellow citizen is part of patriotism.

Everyone is entitled to equal rights, from the factory worker to the party leader.

Finally someone else (from GB, not America that's the best part xD) that notices it. Socialized health care is the best! Doctors still get paid plenty money (they live a luxurious live) and PEOPLE THAT ARE SICK DONT HAVE TO WORRY THAT THEY CAN'T PAY THE BILL. What's wrong with that?
I love 'Sicko' from Michael Moore. Even though he exaggerates sometimes he does have a lot of points in Sicko. People should watch it!

That's all that I have to say right now ^^

I think socialised health care is one of the best ideas in any political system. I don't get all this fuss at all. A little kid with crackhead parents is expected to go out and get job just in case he gets sick? What kind of person would think that was acceptable! In my opinion any country without a socialised health care system is barbaric and shouldn't call themselves civilised, regardless of how technologically advanced they are. And the richer a country without a socialised health care system is the more barbaric it is that they don't have one.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

It's America... that's why it became the way it is. F-ck you. (FLAME WAR STARTS). I love this country, we have our issues, but there is no better country. Go... visit other countries and you'll see there isn't anything better.

Wynd

How about France, Sweden, The Netherlands, Belgium and Great Britain? I'd consider them all superior to the USA. What makes America the best country in the world?

- Apple pie
- Baseball

YOU ARE DEFEATED MR. DAVE SIR.

The reasons why I stopped giving two shits about American politics are pretty evident. It's like watching an old marry couple bicker while making love. No one wants to watch it. Ever.

 

[syko5150]

It's America... that's why it became the way it is. F-ck you. (FLAME WAR STARTS). I love this country, we have our issues, but there is no better country. Go... visit other countries and you'll see there isn't anything better.

Wynd

what's so great about a country that is slowly falling apart?everyday people are losing their jobs and things just get worse for Americans so please explain how America is better then other countries?Also so you know until recently i lived in America for 20 years and i left because i saw better opportunity in Japan to make more money and have a better life overall and so far i've been correct

 

[geoflcl]

I agree. Most people who have this kind of crap:

Spoiler

... Are usually just racist buffoons who have never heard of politics.


Now, if you don't mind, please pay no attention to the tiny flag to the left of this post...

 

[Pliskron]

Hey I'm glad that Obama's getting heath care and making this country go flat broke. It's really the only way to prove that socialism doesn't work. I'm not afraid of what I know will never work here. Americans will never accept perpetual 10% unemployment, a banana republic economy based on crushing debt and high taxes. Within the next twenty years our whole gdp is not even going to cover the interest of our debt. All I have to say is have fun while it lasts because the clock is ticking and November is coming.

If anyone has any intellectual curiosity and wants to know whats really going on look up the Cloward–Piven strategy. These are the words right out of the mouth of the left "in their own words" not filtered from a conservative point of view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

 

[TrolleyDave]

Hey I'm glad that Obama's getting heath care and making this country go flat broke. It's really the only way to prove that socialism doesn't work. I'm not afraid of what I know will never work here. Americans will never accept perpetual 10% unemployment, a banana republic economy based on crushing debt and high taxes. Within the next twenty years our whole gdp is not even going to cover the interest of our debt. All I have to say is have fun while it lasts because the clock is ticking and November is coming.

If anyone has any intellectual curiosity and wants to know whats really going on look up the Cloward–Piven strategy. These are the words right out of the mouth of the left "in their own words" not filtered from a conservative point of view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

So the US government spending millions on bailing out failed banks, that didn't happen? Or the US government lowering taxes more and more for corporations and using the average taxpayer to make up the difference, that didn't contribute towards the rapidly crumbling US economy? Or what about the US government encouraging corporations to look to countries like Mexico and India for cheaper labour, essentially putting millions out of work and lowering the number of jobs available to US citizens. You don't think that had anything to do with the state of the US? Or what about your governments attempt to expand it's Corporatocracy by invading the Middle East? Was that free then? Or what about all that money the government gives corporations who then give it the CEO's as bonuses, you don't think that had something to do with it?

Your government is in a mess because of Capitalism, not Socialism.

As for Americans complaining about higher taxes, you guys do make me laugh. You'll complain about the state of your country, but you'll also complain about having to pay money for it's upkeep. You guys like on your country like it's your parent. It's not, it's your child and a child that you're going to pass on to your children to look after. Why grumble about paying extra taxes if it means better education, health care, cleaner parks, better roads etc. Imagine if University was free, how much more successful would people be? Stop being so self centered and start thinking about those around you and the next generation. When you guys learn to do that then maybe your country will start getting back on track.

 

[Danny Tanner]

I agree. Most people who have this kind of crap:

Spoiler

... Are usually just racist buffoons who have never heard of politics.

lmao good logic

As for Dave, I'm not going to change your mind (or probably anyone else's) because you seem to have thought this through very well. I have to say, I agree on principle. If your neighbor can't afford to go to the doctor, you should help them. I don't think that should be mandatory however. If you work for your money it's yours to decide how to spend it. Americans are very altruistic, as shown most recently by the support for Haitian earthquake survivors. Our country, its economy, and its people just aren't built around the more traditional role of a strong central government.

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

Hey I'm glad that Obama's getting heath care and making this country go flat broke. It's really the only way to prove that socialism doesn't work. I'm not afraid of what I know will never work here. Americans will never accept perpetual 10% unemployment, a banana republic economy based on crushing debt and high taxes. Within the next twenty years our whole gdp is not even going to cover the interest of our debt. All I have to say is have fun while it lasts because the clock is ticking and November is coming.

If anyone has any intellectual curiosity and wants to know whats really going on look up the Cloward–Piven strategy. These are the words right out of the mouth of the left "in their own words" not filtered from a conservative point of view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

Seriously. Please get out of my topic already. You want to continue spouting nonsense, go ahead. Just do it somewhere else. And at Wynd, there's NOTHING about this country that makes it better then others.

The US:
-Invades other countries on mere whims and bullshit reasons(Iraq)
-Gets other countries to hate us, namely much of the world
-Has a horridly corrupt government, and judicial system
-Is made to where big companies can SUE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU, and completely ruin your life for something stupid
-Is made to where you can get sued for looking at someone funny(It's happened)
-Has a lot of people wanting slavery back

Do I really need to say more? This country sucks, plain and simple.

 

[Hidoshi]

I agree. Most people who have this kind of crap:

Spoiler

... Are usually just racist buffoons who have never heard of politics.

lmao good logic

As for Dave, I'm not going to change your mind (or probably anyone else's) because you seem to have thought this through very well. I have to say, I agree on principle. If your neighbor can't afford to go to the doctor, you should help them. I don't think that should be mandatory however. If you work for your money it's yours to decide how to spend it. Americans are very altruistic, as shown most recently by the support for Haitian earthquake survivors. Our country, its economy, and its people just aren't built around the more traditional role of a strong central government.

If you earn €1000,- here each month then you'll get €869,34 after the tax has been removed. That 130,66 goes to people that are sick and some of it goes into your own 'savings' (retirement and when you get sick yourself). But you'll never miss that €130 euro's, since you never got them in the first place (this might look a bit strange, but english isn't my native language

)

You can spend the €860 euro's ANY WAY YOU LIKE, but at least you know that you've helped someone else with the money that you never received.


*edit*
Forgot to say, but it's Bush who spent all the US money. Bill Clinton was actually doing good and getting rid off the US debts, and then Bush made them much worse. Now Obama has to make up for what Bush spent, but he can't make all the decisions on his own. He still has to get approvement for things. So that makes his job harder.

 

[Porygonal]

Wow,looks like things are getting pretty heated regarding this topic... Not that I can blame anyone.I always hear my parents talking about the government and how much they hate it and just wish they could move somewhere else... I hear how worried they are about the healthcare thing because they said it would end up being too expensive for them to afford and that how if people won't get it,that they'll be fined... I heard my mom say,''Well how are people supposed to get it if there are no jobs...?'' I really just wish we could get the hell outta here,somewhere that has less holes in it's government and somewhere with less drama.America just draws too much bad attention to itself.

 

[TrolleyDave]

As for Dave, I'm not going to change your mind (or probably anyone else's) because you seem to have thought this through very well. I have to say, I agree on principle. If your neighbor can't afford to go to the doctor, you should help them. I don't think that should be mandatory however. If you work for your money it's yours to decide how to spend it.

I agree it's your money to spend as you like, but there's also the responsibility of the upkeep of your country. Remember, your government isn't a corporation or a business. It's there to administer funds necessary for the upkeep of the country, and part of that upkeep is the care of it's citizens. If it needs those funds then of course it should be mandatory.

Americans are very altruistic, as shown most recently by the support for Haitian earthquake survivors. Our country, its economy, and its people just aren't built around the more traditional role of a strong central government.

Anybody who thinks the US doesn't have a strong central government needs to take a closer look. The reason it's so hard to see is because it's not the public it's administering to, it's the coporations. The American taxpayer pays plenty to help big business. Just look at the bank bailouts for a prime example. The US told you how to spend your money then, imagine if all that cash went on treating people who needed it.

You also need to take a closer look at Homeland Security policy and the PATRIOT Act. The US government is incredibly imposing on those it deems workers and sees them as capital and goods to be traded with big business and multi-nationals. Heard of "Dead Peasant Insurance"?

QUOTE(shinkukage09 @ Mar 21 2010, 11:57 PM)

Seriously. Please get out of my topic already. You want to continue spouting nonsense, go ahead. Just do it somewhere else. And at Wynd, there's NOTHING about this country that makes it better then others.

The US:
-Invades other countries on mere whims and bullshit reasons(Iraq)
-Gets other countries to hate us, namely much of the world
-Has a horridly corrupt government, and judicial system
-Is made to where big companies can SUE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU, and completely ruin your life for something stupid
-Is made to where you can get sued for looking at someone funny(It's happened)
-Has a lot of people wanting slavery back

Do I really need to say more? This country sucks, plain and simple.

And don't forget America also allowed what is the shining example of Capitalism that is "Dead Peasant Insurance".

 

[Uncle FEFL]

Hey I'm glad that Obama's getting heath care and making this country go flat broke. It's really the only way to prove that socialism doesn't work. I'm not afraid of what I know will never work here. Americans will never accept perpetual 10% unemployment, a banana republic economy based on crushing debt and high taxes. Within the next twenty years our whole gdp is not even going to cover the interest of our debt. All I have to say is have fun while it lasts because the clock is ticking and November is coming.What? Your slippery slope argument doesn't even make sense. Obama's plan hasn't even been passed yet. High taxes are required when a government is in debt. It is a little high, but it's important that we have it.

So the US government spending millions on bailing out failed banks, that didn't happen? Or the US government lowering taxes more and more for corporations and using the average taxpayer to make up the difference, that didn't contribute towards the rapidly crumbling US economy? Or what about the US government encouraging corporations to look to countries like Mexico and India for cheaper labour, essentially putting millions out of work and lowering the number of jobs available to US citizens. You don't think that had anything to do with the state of the US? Or what about your governments attempt to expand it's Corporatocracy by invading the Middle East? Was that free then? Or what about all that money the government gives corporations who then give it the CEO's as bonuses, you don't think that had something to do with it?

Your government is in a mess because of Capitalism, not Socialism.

As for Americans complaining about higher taxes, you guys do make me laugh. You'll complain about the state of your country, but you'll also complain about having to pay money for it's upkeep. You guys like on your country like it's your parent. It's not, it's your child and a child that you're going to pass on to your children to look after. Why grumble about paying extra taxes if it means better education, health care, cleaner parks, better roads etc. Imagine if University was free, how much more successful would people be? Stop being so self centered and start thinking about those around you and the next generation. When you guys learn to do that then maybe your country will start getting back on track.Outsourcing isn't only done by the US.

Both economic systems will absolutely RUIN a country, not just capitalism. Our government is not in a mess because of capitalism, we're in a mess because our government is filled with greedy morons.

What's wrong with *failed* attempts to jump-start the economy?


QUOTE(shinkukage09 @ Mar 21 2010, 04:57 PM)

Seriously. Please get out of my topic already. You want to continue spouting nonsense, go ahead. Just do it somewhere else. And at Wynd, there's NOTHING about this country that makes it better then others.

The US:
-Invades other countries on mere whims and bullshit reasons(Iraq)
-Gets other countries to hate us, namely much of the world
-Has a horridly corrupt government, and judicial system
-Is made to where big companies can SUE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU, and completely ruin your life for something stupid
-Is made to where you can get sued for looking at someone funny(It's happened)
-Has a lot of people wanting slavery back

Do I really need to say more? This country sucks, plain and simple.

-It's called Imperialism. We aren't even the first country to do it. Before World War I, the four superpowers of Europe (in my opinion) were the complete and utter assholes of the world. It is because of Europe's mistakes our government felt a need to impose themselves in Europe's agenda. Look at the League of Nations after WWI: a complete failure. The United Nations was 100x more powerful because we were in it. Later called NATO, by the way (IIRC).
-Uh duh. Everyone hated Germany because of how strong they were. Everyone hated the Soviet Union. Everyone hated Japan. Everyone hated France. Everyone hated Great Britain before too. It's what people do when a country becomes powerful. It's just that we have had a combo of terrible presidents to go along with it.
-That's a judicial system. Every judicial system in the world is not perfect.
-Those are rather far fetched and aren't exactly relevant due to being such an extreme.
-WHAT?

No, it doesn't suck. You are just a little misguided. Remember: other countries aren't this country (simple, right?). Therefore, their opinions will be far more harsh. It's nationalism, pride, and (most unlikely) patriotism. Honestly, all countries have petty grievances with each other, I don't see why the US always has to be the center of attention. I don't see why the opinions are so poor either, we've saved Europe's ass three times; we aren't the only country doing poorer than usual right now.

 

[zeromac]

So we all talking about Communist and stuff like that?
Is this the wrong place for this?

Spoiler

Go Australia we're better than America!

 

[Uncle FEFL]

So we all talking about Communist and stuff like that?
Is this the wrong place for this?

Spoiler

Go Australia we're better than America!

Your censorship laws SUCK!

 

[Advi]

So we all talking about Communist and stuff like that?
Is this the wrong place for this?

Spoiler

Go Australia we're better than America!

Your censorship laws SUCK!

 

[Golin]

Seriously. Please get out of my topic already. You want to continue spouting nonsense, go ahead. Just do it somewhere else. And at Wynd, there's NOTHING about this country that makes it better then others.

The US:
-Invades other countries on mere whims and bullshit reasons(Iraq)
-Gets other countries to hate us, namely much of the world
-Has a horridly corrupt government, and judicial system
-Is made to where big companies can SUE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU, and completely ruin your life for something stupid
-Is made to where you can get sued for looking at someone funny(It's happened)
-Has a lot of people wanting slavery back

Do I really need to say more? This country sucks, plain and simple.

Whoa, whoa... first this country doesn't suck... it's just not as good as it was several years ago.

The U.S. invade countries not on whims and bullshit reasons. They invade countries for personal vendetta (Bush) and to protect special interest groups (protect their money).
The U.S. does not get other countries to hate it, that is merely a byproduct of our war-mongering action.
The government... okay, you got me there; but we passed a health care bill. (finally)
Yes, true. It happens everywhere now though. (Don't believe me? Look at the once impregnable Sweden)
I'm not sure if it has happened... sounds a little far fetched, but I doubt the littler bastard won the case.
... Where do you live? Who wants slavery back? Slavery against who?

 

[Jamstruth]

What I love about America is the amount of stereotypes we can find. Right Wing Christians attacking Obama? THEY GOT 'EM! Crazy Creationists? THEY GOT 'EM! Hicks? They got them too.