World War III discussion

[Creamu]

Hello,

I have been reflecting on the idea of a possible world war three scenario since russia made their move on ukraine and the response of 'the west'. A possible world war three scenario would be devistating to almost all, so it merits a closer look when so many factors start to vaguely point in this directon.

Now with the extreme right Azov mercs in the Ukraine surrendering to the russian forces, China might feel moralized enough to make their move on Taiwan in the future.

If a US President keeps vowing to do something, and his aides keep insisting he won't, no one is sure what to believe -- a potential dangerous state of affairs on fraught international issues.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/23/politics/biden-china-taiwan-explainer/index.html

This is becoming increasingly the subject of open debate and discussion. It goes so far that Biden affirms that he will military intervene if China is going to make a move. His aides seem to disagree, but he is the President and he is supposed to be the one to make such decisions. So this is no joke at all.



Meanwhile weird nerd Chuck Todd is playing out the war scenario in great detail on the longest-running program on American television 'Meet the Press'. A program that gets global attention including elite players on the world stage.



Why is a creepy freak like Chuck Todd in a position to do such provocations?

Please share your perspective on this trajectory?

 

[Nikokaro]

If I may give my humble opinion, I don't think there will be a third world war. Europe will do (and is doing) everything to prevent it. It is striking a difficult balance between abstaining from conflict by protecting its national interests, and some punitive intervention in the economic field: nothing else it can do, because it does not want to.

As everyone has now realized, this conflict is not wanted by the Russians, but by a handful of men, an oligarchy of the corrupt and corrupting, who fear that Western democratic and liberal ideas may take hold and drive their people to revolt, and overturn a pyramidal bureaucratic system based on corruption, nepotism, embezzlement, authorized theft and expropriation. Their system based on systematic lies, alteration of facts and threats is not likely to last long: already we see the first defections among the military, politicians, businessmen, etc.

And then there is that suspicion of the leader's mental illness which, if it proves to be true, the direct subordinates will certainly not be able to turn a blind eye to, pandering to him and leading their country to ruin.

Regarding China, it has shown all these years that the only war it cares about (and is winning) is economic and commercial (and procreative ).
The Chinese people are by nature much more rational, logical, educated and morally upright than the Western people: they have not explicitly condemned the Russian action but neither have they supported it, keeping a diplomatic and mediating attitude so as not to upset their so-called allies. Ultimately, they have no interest in bringing death and distribution to the planet, in the name of abstract and illusory ideas: while Russia has a never outdated tradition of lies, ideological absurdities and denials dating back to the Soviet period and Stalinism, which prove to be die-hard.

Just some trivial considerations, and I sincerely hope I am not wrong, for everyone's sake.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

The only way that WW3 will be avoided is if Putin and his corrupt cabal are deposed. By force OR stealth, despite the fact that it's gonna be an absolute clusterfuck, since Russia has never dealt well with power vacuums. It is not very likely, however, since the bastard replaced his entire cabinet in february out of fear of being poisoned, a very popular way to kick the bucket in Russia.

 

[Creamu]

If I may give my humble opinion,

Of course.

I don't think there will be a third world war.

That is good to hear.

Europe will do (and is doing) everything to prevent it. It is striking a difficult balance between abstaining from conflict by protecting its national interests, and some punitive intervention in the economic field: nothing else it can do, because it does not want to.

Interesting. Would you say that europe is a indipendent power from the USA? It seems like the both are ruled by the same entities, don't you think? Am I wrong? Is there a break off happening? What are the implications?

As everyone has now realized, this conflict is not wanted by the Russians,

Yes that was pretty obvious, alot of russians live in the Ukraine, and the Ukrainians are their brothers.

but by a handful of men, an oligarchy of the corrupt and corrupting, who fear that Western democratic and liberal ideas may take hold and drive their people to revolt, and overturn a pyramidal bureaucratic system based on corruption, nepotism, embezzlement, authorized theft and expropriation. Their system based on systematic lies, alteration of facts and threats is not likely to last long: already we see the first defections among the military, politicians, businessmen, etc.

That is good to hear. If you are correct these decivers are pretty deeply invested in their scemes and won't give up without a fight. If they were to be found out on a world stage that would be a devistating blow to them. How do you see this play out?

And then there is that suspicion of the leader's mental illness which, if it proves to be true, the direct subordinates will certainly not be able to turn a blind eye to, pandering to him and leading their country to ruin.

But what if the leader has surrounded himself with people who are equally mentally ill, complicit or have blackmail on them?

Regarding China, it has shown all these years that the only war it cares about (and is winning) is economic and commercial (and procreative ).
The Chinese people are by nature much more rational, logical, educated and morally upright than the Western people: they have not explicitly condemned the Russian action but neither have they supported it, keeping a diplomatic and mediating attitude so as not to upset their so-called allies. Ultimately, they have no interest in bringing death and distribution to the planet, in the name of abstract and illusory ideas: while Russia has a never outdated tradition of lies, ideological absurdities and denials dating back to the Soviet period and Stalinism, which prove to be die-hard.

I think if China comes to the conclusion that Taiwan is up for graps they will take it. For russia it is important to understand that the governemnt behind Stalin (the bolshewiks) were completly different people then those who rule russia now.

Just some trivial considerations, and I sincerely hope I am not wrong, for everyone's sake.

I agree.

 

[Creamu]

The only way that WW3 will be avoided is if Putin and his corrupt cabal are deposed. By force, despite the fact that it's gonna be an absolute clusterfuck, since Russia has never dealt well with power vacuums. It is not very likely, however, since the bastard replaced his entire cabinet in february out of fear of being poisoned, a very popular way to kick the bucket in Russia.

So you think that russia will further escalate the Situation beyond Ukraine?

 

[Nikokaro]

The only way that WW3 will be avoided is if Putin and his corrupt cabal are deposed.

Easier said than done. Deposed by whom? By the people? Impossible! At the first hint of revolt there would be a massacre. The Russian people are too afraid: they were born and raised in an environment steeped in fear, and for this even free thinking fills them with fear.
Deposed perhaps by a foreign task force? Very difficult... Assuming they can get close to him, as soon as Putin sees himself in danger, he would take the whole world to hell with him, pressing those famous and feared buttons hidden under his desk...

 

[Dark_Ansem]

So you think that russia will further escalate the Situation beyond Ukraine?

Putin will, if he feels pressured or desperate enough. Part of me wonders why he isn't squeezing ukraine more.
There's also the fact that with his blockades he's already causing starvation throughout the world, which frankly for me would be enough reason to sink his ships.

Easier said than done. Deposed by whom? By the people? Impossible! At the first hint of revolt there would be a massacre. The Russian people are too afraid: they were born and raised in an environment steeped in fear, and for this even free thinking fills them with fear.
Deposed perhaps by a foreign task force? Very difficult... Assuming they can get close to him, as soon as Putin sees himself in danger, he would take the whole world to hell with him, pressing those famous and feared buttons hidden under his desk...

It would be REALLY good now for the CIA, for once, to do what they usually do. But the KGB is no joke.

 

[Creamu]

Putin will, if he feels pressured or desperate enough. Part of me wonders why he isn't squeezing ukraine more.
There's also the fact that with his blockades he's already causing starvation, which frankly for me would be enough reason to sink his ships.

I see. What could a escalation on Putins side look like? Is he going to invade Poland?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

I see. What could a escalation on Putins side look like? Is he going to invade Poland?

If he does, it's WW3. I think he's gonna expand more towards nations that aren't associated with NATO or the EU, to ensure his delusions of Soviet Union reborn are satisfied.

Frankly, the proble is that Putin, like Trump or other dictators, believes his own propaganda nonsense and surrounded himself with hordes of complacement yesmen and yeswomen who cannot give him a reality check because their lives depend on him being in lalaland. Of course, for Putin it took around 20 years of nonstop propaganda and of ruling Russia.

And TBH, a situation like this shows why EVERY political position needs a number of maximum terms that isn't high. One cannot be head of a nation as vast as Russia for the better part of half a century and not go drunk on their own power. And then the whole idea of having to give it up, clearly, it can make one break his mind.

 

[Nikokaro]

What could a escalation on Putins side look like? Is he going to invade Poland?

Nope. Very unlikely. As for me, he is interested in Ukraine because it was getting too close to Western culture and politics. Putin is obsessed with the idea of having neutral states around Russia, because of the aforementioned fear of European liberal ideas; ultimately fear of losing his personal possessions (stolen from his people) and his despotic power.

 

[Creamu]

If he does, it's WW3. I think he's gonna expand more towards nations that aren't associated with NATO or the EU, to ensure his delusions of Soviet Union reborn are satisfied.

That makes sense, non NATO countries would be less of an escalation.

Frankly, the proble is that Putin, like Trump or other dictators, believes his own propaganda nonsense and surrounded himself with hordes of complacement yesmen and yeswomen who cannot give him a reality check because their lives depend on him being in lalaland. Of course, for Putin it took around 20 years of nonstop propaganda and of ruling Russia.

But how did Trump step down as a dictator?

And TBH, a situation like this shows why EVERY political position needs a number of maximum terms that isn't high. One cannot be head of a nation as vast as Russia for the better part of half a century and not go drunk on their own power. And then the whole idea of having to give it up, clearly, it can make one break his mind.

I think that is a solid point. Too much power for to long can make a ruling class lose touch with reality.

You seem to have invested quite a bit of time into these subjects. How do you view the China situation?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Nope. Very unlikely. As for me, he is interested in Ukraine because it was getting too close to Western culture and politics. Putin is obsessed with the idea of having neutral states around Russia, because of the aforementioned fear of European liberal ideas; ultimately fear of losing his personal possessions (stolen from his people) and his despotic power.

Not just your opinion TBH. There's also the fact that Ukraine used to be the cultural capital of the soviet union or smth.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

I think that is a solid point. Too much power for to long can make a ruling class lose touch with reality.

Oh it totally can. Look at the UK too.

But how did Trump step down as a dictator?

Kicking and screaming and trying to overturn the process at every turn.

You seem to have invested quite a bit of time into these subjects. How do you view the China situation?

Thank you for your kind words. What do you mean, china situation?

 

[Creamu]

Nope. Very unlikely. As for me, he is interested in Ukraine because it was getting too close to Western culture and politics.

That makes sense. If I'm not mistaken Ukraine means borderland.

Putin is obsessed with the idea of having neutral states around Russia, because of the aforementioned fear of European liberal ideas; ultimately fear of losing his personal possessions (stolen from his people) and his despotic power.

Don't you feel that european liberal idealism is having a identy crisis at the moment?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Don't you feel that european liberal idealism is having a identy crisis at the moment?

Not at all. In fact, I'd say the crisis has galvanised it.

 

[Creamu]

Oh it totally can. Look at the UK too.

Could you elaborate, I would really liek to learn more about the situation there.

Kicking and screaming and trying to overturn the process at every turn.

He seems to be a rather incompetent dictator in contrast to Putin.

Thank you for your kind words. What do you mean, china situation?

In my opening post I worte about the attention that Taiwan gets, and how the USA and China have contrasting views.

 

[Creamu]

Not at all. In fact, I'd say the crisis has galvanised it.

I have the impression, that the corona crisis, with the resulting consequences of the lockdown, as well as the rising crime rate, the rising food and gas prices due to the ukraine conflict, the rising houseprices, mass immigration put pressure on the liberal system that is making bold steps in terms of fighting against white supremacy, for LGBATQ+ and forgein interests. There seems to be a disconnect between what the liberal ruling class does and what the overall population is concerned with.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

In my opening post I worte about the attention that Taiwan gets, and how the USA and China have contrasting views.

Ah well, it's complicated. Let me make it as brief as I can, as I'm also working.

• The truth is, China right now does NOT have the military strength to invade Taiwan without burning it to the ground and massive losses, which would completely defeat the point of the invasion, since they want to annex Taiwan and incorporate their technological discoveries - plus there is the fact that Taiwanese and Chinese are not hostile to each other, so a massacre of taiwanese people and chinese army would NOT go well with the populace, and there's a billion of them, and they can easily overpower any domestic police force;
  • Therefore, about Taiwan right now there is a lot of posturing and gestures like giving pandas to taiwanese zoos, but I think it's unlikely an invasion will happen, therefore the USA
• Concerning the relationship between China and Russia, this is my belief:
  • If China could, they'd leave Putin to the Americans as fast as the speed of light and refuse to touch them with a bargepole;
    • Unfortunately, they cannot because the Chinese gov has spent FAR too much time and soft power being Putin's chums, therefore if they did so this would be another creak in the Party's reputation of peerlessness, which is the only reason they are still in power, so I think they'll taper down support to a minimum to ensure they don't upset USA or Russia, but without any meaningfulness either.

Could you elaborate, I would really liek to learn more about the situation there.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...d-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking

The conservative party of the UK is the perfect representation of an Elite completely detached from reality, The article says that while the UK was in COVID lockdown the Prime Minister and his entourage were having wild parties, with rivers of booze to the point people were vomiting.
10 years ago, this would have led to mass resignations, a GE and the Tories never in power for two decades. But in Post-Brexit UK, after the brainwash carried out by Rupert Murdoch and Putin, this behaviour is almost justified, which is nuts.
Of course, the fault of this lies with the English, rather than the British, because they have a secret obsession for being ruled by rich white men with posh accents.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

There seems to be a disconnect between what the liberal ruling class does and what the overall population is concerned with.

I can't speak for everyone, but this isn't necessarily true. This is what the right-wing press would have you believe, however, as part of culture wars.

 

[Nikokaro]

Don't you feel that european liberal idealism is having a identy crisis at the moment?

I don't think so. I would say the opposite, as our buddy here has already pointed out. In exchange for what ideas? Neo-communist? Neo-Nazi? Absurd. There is no alternative. Freedom is in the DNA of Europeans, and they would not give it up for anything in the world. Other ideologies will never appeal to the masses. The rest is talk.