Hacking Wiiflow, GPT, MBR, max drive size?

[KJonline]

it can. up to 4 primary partitions.
the issue is it needs to starts before the 2TB mark, so make for example the first partition 2TB less 2 bytes. and starts the 2nd partition at 2TB less 1 bytes, and make it 2TB less 1 byte size (in fat32 32k/cluster, or 4TB in 64k/cluster)

you might have one of the rarest HDD which are bigger than 2TB but don't use 4096bytes/sector. (there were very small numbers with 512, some with 1024, I don't know if there were any with 2048)
did it told you how big are your sectors ? you have the error message above the log windows.


and if you thing GPT allows more partition, then use GPT like I told one message above yours.
you are right, GPT might not work with all homebrew, but are you using a lot of homebrew, or only expect to use the drive for Wii and gamecube game loading? these are working just fine in GPT.
USBLoaderGX has a bug with GPT if you format 2 different partition format (fat32+ntfs for example), but just format one big FAT32, or 2 fat32.

Hello, and thanks again for the reply. Didn't fully understand what you meant on your first paragraph when you were explaining the MBR situation. If you don't mind giving me STEP BY STEP directions, that be awesome, and I'll definitely give it a shot!

As far as your second paragraph goes... I've taken pictures of my partition info and file system info to show you what comes up in regards to the SECTOR SIZE. This should help determine if this drive is capable of doing what we're trying to get it to do if you don't mind checking the uploaded pics real quick.

In regards to your paragraph 3... you are correct, I only plan on using 4tb seagate usb powered drive for Wii and GameCube play. Nintendont and USB loader GX will be the main apps I use with this based on good reviews I've read.

On a side note, I would like to try and see if I can get the MBR working still.

worst case scenario though, if GPT is compatible for running Wii and GameCube games, I'll be fine with that as well. As long as it also allows WIIWARE games as well. If not, please let me know.

Questions by the way...
1. As far as other Homebrew applications that are not supported on GPT, I can always use my SD card to run those apps, correct?

2. Also, I read on the USB loader GX official site that any hard drive above 500 megabytes is it recommended to have its own power cord. Is this true, or will my 4 terabyte USB powered external hard drive still work. My friend says his 1 terabyte to works. This is why I'm confused.

...Sorry for the long message, and all the questions, but I've been working on my two Homebrew Wii systems for weeks now, and I'm not going to give up. I'm going to reach my goal with these two systems.

 

[Cyan]

your pictures don't contain the sector size, but provides data to deduct it (1 cluster = 8 sectors = 4096bytes, which means 1 sector is 512bytes)
you have a rare drive ! one manufactured bigger than 2TB but before they decided to change the sector size.

Sector size is a physical product size of the magnetic plate set when manufacturing the hard drive. sector size can't be changed.
old hdd had a sector size of 512bytes, and MBR being 32bit combined to the way FAT32 partition size are defined (number of cluster, not number of byte) it had the limitation of 2TB.

it's not really a 2TB partition size limit, but a sector value stored in a table defining the partition. when the MBR define a partition it sets two information : the starting sector and how many sector the partition contains.
the number stored in that information can't be bigger than 32bit. so, the starting sector can't be located above sector number 4294967295 (32bit max value 0xffffffff)
if your hdd has 512bytes per sector, it means the starting sector can't be located above 512*4,294,967,295 = 2199023255040 (2TB)


To override this maximum value, there are two methods :
1. use a 64bit value, instead of 32bit, to store the starting sector position. This is what GPT does. GPT is a 64bit partition table, while MBR is 32bit.
or
2. make the sector size bigger. being a physical size of the device, manufacturers had to create new type of drives with bigger sectors. instead of holding 512bytes, they started to create drives with 1024, and then 4096 bytes per sector.
or
both 1+2 at the same time!

So, you can have MBR on bigger sector drive (4096*512*4,294,967,295 = 16TB), or GPT on old drives (512*9,223,372,036,854,775,807), or both (4096*9,223,372,036,854,775,807).



if your drive is a 512byte/sector, and is bigger than 2TB, but you still want to use MBR, this is what you have to do :
first partition often starts at sector 63, so 4294967295 - 63 - 2 (you need an additional sector for the starting second partition) = 2199023221760
resize the first, or delete create a new, partition to be less than 2TB in size (let's say 512*4,294,967,230 = 2199023221760 bytes, 2096128MB, 2047 GB).
If you want to miss less space as possible, you'll have to count how many sectors your first partition is using to determine where your second partition starts. second partition should start at sector 0xFFFFFFFD or 0xFFFFFFFE. if you can move partitions around, make a small partition 1, create a new partition 2 starting at 0xFFFFFFFD, then expand partition 1 to fill the gap up to partition 2.

But this is all theoretical, so if you don't care losing few MB and want to be safe, just make it 1.9TB
create a new partition starting right after the first, and make it 1.9TB in size too.

now you have 2 * 1.9TB (less than 2TB) and both starting at a position less than 2TB (fitting in a 32bit value).

You can now format both partitions in FAT32, 32k/cluster.


your NTFS is the first (and only) partition?
it has starting sector set to 264192, which is 264192*512bytes = 135266304, 129MB lost space.

 

[KJonline]

your pictures don't contain the sector size, but provides data to deduct it (1 cluster = 8 sectors = 4096bytes, which means 1 sector is 512bytes)
you have a rare drive ! one manufactured bigger than 2TB but before they decided to change the sector size.

Sector size is a physical product size of the magnetic plate set when manufacturing the hard drive. sector size can't be changed.
old hdd had a sector size of 512bytes, and MBR being 32bit combined to the way FAT32 partition size are defined (number of cluster, not number of byte) it had the limitation of 2TB.

it's not really a 2TB partition size limit, but a sector value stored in a table defining the partition. when the MBR define a partition it sets two information : the starting sector and how many sector the partition contains.
the number stored in that information can't be bigger than 32bit. so, the starting sector can't be located above sector number 4294967295 (32bit max value 0xffffffff)
if your hdd has 512bytes per sector, it means the starting sector can't be located above 512*4,294,967,295 = 2199023255040 (2TB)


To override this maximum value, there are two methods :
1. use a 64bit value, instead of 32bit, to store the starting sector position. This is what GPT does. GPT is a 64bit partition table, while MBR is 32bit.
or
2. make the sector size bigger. being a physical size of the device, manufacturers had to create new type of drives with bigger sectors. instead of holding 512bytes, they started to create drives with 1024, and then 4096 bytes per sector.
or
both 1+2 at the same time!

So, you can have MBR on bigger sector drive (4096*512*4,294,967,295 = 16TB), or GPT on old drives (512*9,223,372,036,854,775,807), or both (4096*9,223,372,036,854,775,807).



if your drive is a 512byte/sector, and is bigger than 2TB, but you still want to use MBR, this is what you have to do :
first partition often starts at sector 63, so 4294967295 - 63 - 2 (you need an additional sector for the starting second partition) = 2199023221760
resize the first, or delete create a new, partition to be less than 2TB in size (let's say 512*4,294,967,230 = 2199023221760 bytes, 2096128MB, 2047 GB).
If you want to miss less space as possible, you'll have to count how many sectors your first partition is using to determine where your second partition starts. second partition should start at sector 0xFFFFFFFD or 0xFFFFFFFE. if you can move partitions around, make a small partition 1, create a new partition 2 starting at 0xFFFFFFFD, then expand partition 1 to fill the gap up to partition 2.

But this is all theoretical, so if you don't care losing few MB and want to be safe, just make it 1.9TB
create a new partition starting right after the first, and make it 1.9TB in size too.

now you have 2 * 1.9TB (less than 2TB) and both starting at a position less than 2TB (fitting in a 32bit value).

You can now format both partitions in FAT32, 32k/cluster.


your NTFS is the first (and only) partition?
it has starting sector set to 264192, which is 264192*512bytes = 135266304, 129MB lost space.

Cyan, I appreciate all the information in regards to getting my 4TB SEAGATE HDD to work with MBR fat32. To be honest, it sounds way to complicated to get done successfully though. Knowing my luck, it probably wouldn't even work for me, and ide probably run into future issues. Unless there is an easier way, and a recommended FORMATTING SOFTWARE for me as well.

For now, I think I will just do the two 2tb partitions at fat32 32k while keeping the GPT style. You said so yourself that it should be fine for running GC, Wii games which is basically what i need it for. I can always change it, and start over later if not satisfied.

i do need these questions answered though when you get a chance, bro....

1. For the other Homebrew applications that are not supported on GPT, I can always use my SD card to run those apps, correct?

2. I read on the USB LOADER GX official site that any hard drive above 500GB is recommended to have its own power cord plugged in the wall. Is this true, or will my 4TB USB powered external hard drive still work?? ...My friend has a 1TB USB powered HDD he uses on his Wii, and it works fine. to works.

3. Will I be able to run WiiWARE games frommy hard drive with no issues since its GPT?

 

[Cyan]

what's complicated in creating a partition smaller than 2TB?


open your program, select "create a partition", in the size field write 1.9TB.
too hard? do you need a tutorial to write "1.9TB" on the keyboard?


1. yes
2. I don't know where you are looking, the official site does not say anything about hdd.
this is the official site : https://sourceforge.net/projects/usbloadergx/
3. don't remember, use sd.

 

[KJonline]

I never said it was hard to create a partition smaller than 2tb. I'm aware of how to create partitions and format them. I have a 4 terabyte Seagate USB powered hard drive that simply will not allow me to format the entire 4tb into a FAT32 32k MBR Style.

I know it can be done, because I read of other people doing it. However, I do not think that my hard drive itself will allow it due to the internal specifications as you mentioned it before. That is my opinion. Unless you know of a solution, I give up on it.

The only way it will let me do what I need it to do is if I keep it at a GPT Style and split the 4 terabytes into to 2tb partitions. Again, never said I did not know how to partition. Take a chill pill, and relax lol.

On a side note, here is the link to the INSTRUCTIONS on the official site In regards to the HARD DRIVE requirements under "CHOOSING A HARD DISK DRIVE" that mentions to use a self powered external hdd if it's bigger than 500gb...
https://sourceforge.net/p/usbloadergx/wiki/Installation/

Speaking of SD cards earlier... Got new questions...

1. Is it better/faster to run the Nintendont and USB loader apps off of SD CARD or off of external hard drive, and will that have any effect on the gameplay?

2. I have a 2gb sd card (non hc) that I used for adding Homebrew because directions specified NON HC. My question now is, does it matter what speed and SD card it is as far as HC and NON-HC is concerned for the apps and games, etc. ?

 

[Cyan]

you are right, that wiki guide is old too, and when I clicked on "wiki" tab it said there's no wiki.
but it was an old guide, automatically transfered to sourceforge from google repository 3 years ago.

don't care about the "if hdd are bigger than 500GB you need external power source" it's false.
whether you need it or not depends on the drive itself. It has nothing to do with the drive capacity. if it needs additional power, then the manufacturer sells it with a power source. (obviously ! if you need a power source and you don't plug it, it will not work).
the guide probably told that old drives didn't need additional power source, it's just a convenience BEFORE buying a drive, to know whether you'll need a free power plug near your console or not, that's all. it's not telling you that you NEED to buy a power if it's bigger than 500GB or else it'll not work.

Take a chill pill, and relax lol.

how should I chill when you act like you understood the contrary to what I explained?
you asked how you can format 2TB with MBR, I tell you it's possible to do it, and you still say that GPT is the only way to do what you need, which is two 2TB partitions ?

Again, let me tell you : NO, GPT is not the only way to do what you NEED.

maybe it's easier like this :

If you NEED 1 partition of 4 GB : GPT required
if you NEED 2 partitions of 2GB : MBR or GPT are possible, GPT is maybe easier if you make a partition bigger than 2TB, but not required.


MBR can do what you need !
just do two 2TB partitions (NOT BIGGER), using MBR. isn't what you want to do ?
But, hey, if you prefer using GPT over MBR while you can use MBR, your choice.

1. Is it better/faster to run the Nintendont and USB loader apps off of SD CARD or off of external hard drive, and will that have any effect on the gameplay?
2. I have a 2gb sd card (non hc) that I used for adding Homebrew because directions specified NON HC. My question now is, does it matter what speed and SD card it is as far as HC and NON-HC is concerned for the apps and games, etc. ?

it's better to keep the homebrew on SD, and dedicate the USB for the data (roms, isos, games only). do not store settings, homebrew, covers, sound, themes on the usb, even if most users will tell you there's no problem doing it. some users had issues, better not do it if you can than dealing with errors.
SD speed has no incident, and Sd or USB are played the same way.

SD and SDHC are also not an issue with speed. they are all identical.
the "SD class" speed is a write speed reference, not a read speed value.

 

[KJonline]

you are right, that wiki guide is old too, and when I clicked on "wiki" tab it said there's no wiki.
but it was an old guide, automatically transfered to sourceforge from google repository 3 years ago.

don't care about the "if hdd are bigger than 500GB you need external power source" it's false.
whether you need it or not depends on the drive itself. It has nothing to do with the drive capacity. if it needs additional power, then the manufacturer sells it with a power source. (obviously ! if you need a power source and you don't plug it, it will not work).
the guide probably told that old drives didn't need additional power source, it's just a convenience BEFORE buying a drive, to know whether you'll need a free power plug near your console or not, that's all. it's not telling you that you NEED to buy a power if it's bigger than 500GB or else it'll not work.




how should I chill when you act like you understood the contrary to what I explained?
you asked how you can format 2TB with MBR, I tell you it's possible to do it, and you still say that GPT is the only way to do what you need, which is two 2TB partitions ?

Again, let me tell you : NO, GPT is not the only way to do what you NEED.

maybe it's easier like this :

If you NEED 1 partition of 4 GB : GPT required
if you NEED 2 partitions of 2GB : MBR or GPT are possible, GPT is maybe easier if you make a partition bigger than 2TB, but not required.


MBR can do what you need !
just do two 2TB partitions (NOT BIGGER), using MBR. isn't what you want to do ?
But, hey, if you prefer using GPT over MBR while you can use MBR, your choice.


it's better to keep the homebrew on SD, and dedicate the USB for the data (roms, isos, games only). do not store settings, homebrew, covers, sound, themes on the usb, even if most users will tell you there's no problem doing it. some users had issues, better not do it if you can than dealing with errors.
SD speed has no incident, and Sd or USB are played the same way.

SD and SDHC are also not an issue with speed. they are all identical.
the "SD class" speed is a write speed reference, not a read speed value.

Reason I said take a chill pill, is because youre starting to seem upset during our conversations. I have been calm and patient with you helping me. We are fellow gamers, and final fantasy fans. No need to be rude lol. I'm not your enemy. Js.

Anyways, back to business. I have tried ALL METHODS with my Seagate 4tb usb powered external hdd. NOTHING is working. I will explain what all I've tried, and take pictures, so you can see what's happening, and we can pin point the issue hopefully.

Keep in mind that my Wii only has Homebrew on it. I have not messed with anything else yet such as the OS. I'm doing things one step at a time to reach my goal of having all my GC, Wii, WIIWARE games run off my external hard drive the best way it can.

Anyways here's what I've tried so far when formatting the hard drive, so you can better understand what all I've tried...

First, I deleted all partitions on the drive, so I'm free to do and add whatever. Then I attempted to make two partitions SMALLER than 2tb. Then I format them at FAT32 32k clusters. Everything is going good up until I try to convert the GPT to MBR as my final step. It won't allow this and an error message pops up basically saying I can't exceed 2TB with an MBR partition table.

Second, I tried deleting all partitions first, converting it to MBR first, then making partitions. This method DOES work, but unfortunately, it will NOT let me exceed 2TB out of the full 4TB. Which means the remaining 2TB are WASTED and unallocated.

Third, I just kept it at GPT to where it allows me to use all 4TB without wasting any of it. Also, I tried to change the first partition to ACTIVE (just cuz I read it's recommended), but the software only allows me to set the drive to active if it's a MBR partition TABLE ONLY. Not a GPT.

Unfortunately, it's gets worse, bro! Just when I thought it would work with GPT, last night I tried running emulator apps and NintenDONT on my Wii Homebrew, and Homebrew couldn't detect the apps at all. I even tried putting the apps separately on an SD card and tried running the roms off the external hard drive separately. A message pops up saying it can't detect usb device.

The only methods I have tested that work for me are these...

1. I format the entire hard drive at MBR FAT32 32k clusters at 2TB or under. While the remaining 2TB+ goes to WASTE as unallocated.

2. SD cards or flash drives with the same formatting at MBR fat32 32k clusters. All work since they're obviously not over 2TB.

So I honestly don't know why using my external hdd is being such a headache.

Again, check the pics, and you'll know what's going on. Trust me, I've tried everything I know of in the past week or two.

As of now, I feel like I need to sell my 4TB, so I can invest in buying two separate 2TB external hard drives, but ide like to keep everything on one 4TB of possible due to convenience if you know what I mean.

I forgot to mention that I have not tried "USB loader GX" yet, because I do not know how to set it up. You once mentioned that a GPT hard drive is compatible with it. Do you think setting up USB Loader GX will resolve my issue? ...personally I don't see how if Homebrew can't detect a GPT hard at all to begin with.

It's been a journey for me. What are your thoughts and recommendations?

MY SCREENSHOTS:

GPT, fat32 32k, two partitions at 2TB.
Allowed on software, but can't get Wii Homebrew to detect it.

When trying to convert that same GPT layout to MBR. .. Fail

When starting from scratch and making it a MBR after deleting all partitions from the start, and then formatting. ...Only allows 2TB while the remaining 2TB end up unusable and unallocated. Even tried shrinking the partition, but didn't work. Regardless what I do, it's stuck at only 2TB of usable space.

 

[Cyan]

Everything is going good up until I try to convert the GPT to MBR as my final step. It won't allow this and an error message pops up basically saying I can't exceed 2TB with an MBR partition table.

ahh, maybe that's a problem with your program?
did you try to set it to MBR when there's no partition? or only one less than 2Tb?
I don't know that program, so I can't tell if it's an issue in all programs or only this one, but maybe they prevent converting to MBR if it detects anything over 2TB, but just to be easier and don't have to mess with different setup?

Second, I tried deleting all partitions first, converting it to MBR first, then making partitions. This method DOES work, but unfortunately, it will NOT let me exceed 2TB out of the full 4TB. Which means the remaining 2TB are WASTED and unallocated.

ok, so you tried converting first and it worked.
that's strange that you can't do anything above 2TB. well, I suppose the first partition ends before the 2TB and the second partition started before it?

Also, I tried to change the first partition to ACTIVE (just cuz I read it's recommended),

ahah, that information is like always there, even if it's completely useless. wii users are propagating this information for 10 years, and everyone follow it
active has nothing to do with anything, except computer's mother board. the "active" flag just determines which partition the BIOS has to boot when powering a computer, the one where your OS will be loaded from.

Do you think setting up USB Loader GX will resolve my issue?

no, it will not resolve anything, you currently have a hdd setup problem, using usbgx will not allow you to format it or make things more compatible.
usbgx is compatible with gpt, same as nintendont (I don't know why nintendont didn't find your drive when in gpt, it should have work).

GPT, fat32 32k, two partitions at 2TB.
Allowed on software, but can't get Wii Homebrew to detect it.

it should work on "some" homebrew. not all.
nintendont should work, usbloadergx and wiiflow will work.
emuNAND might not work (I don't remember)
but you can't use some homebrew (no idea about HBC, but like I said you should not put homebrew on the hdd, keep them on SD, and the HDD can be detected/mounted by compatible homebrew only)

When starting from scratch and making it a MBR after deleting all partitions from the start, and then formatting. ...Only allows 2TB while the remaining 2TB end up unusable and unallocated. Even tried shrinking the partition, but didn't work. Regardless what I do, it's stuck at only 2TB of usable space.

yeah, I can see your program doesn't allow you to do anything above 2TB, even if the partition starts before.

I don't know if it's a restriction from your program or not. To my understanding of the MBR format (and based on other user's report doing so) it's possible to use a 4TB drive in MBR as long as the second partition starts before the 2TB.
Maybe you could try another partition tool ? Could you try EaseUS partition ? it's a common partitioning program used by a lot of people.

I hope you can do it, but if not then GPT is a solution. But I don't know why nintendont don't see it
if you go with GPT, be sure to make 2x FAT32 (if you make one FAT32 and one NTFS, usbloadergx will crash. I tried to look at the issue but didn't see the problem yet)

 

[KJonline]

ahh, maybe that's a problem with your program?
did you try to set it to MBR when there's no partition? or only one less than 2Tb?
I don't know that program, so I can't tell if it's an issue in all programs or only this one, but maybe they prevent converting to MBR if it detects anything over 2TB, but just to be easier and don't have to mess with different setup?

ok, so you tried converting first and it worked.
that's strange that you can't do anything above 2TB. well, I suppose the first partition ends before the 2TB and the second partition started before it?



ahah, that information is like always there, even if it's completely useless. wii users are propagating this information for 10 years, and everyone follow it
active has nothing to do with anything, except computer's mother board. the "active" flag just determines which partition the BIOS has to boot when powering a computer, the one where your OS will be loaded from.


no, it will not resolve anything, you currently have a hdd setup problem, using usbgx will not allow you to format it or make things more compatible.
usbgx is compatible with gpt, same as nintendont (I don't know why nintendont didn't find your drive when in gpt, it should have work).


it should work on "some" homebrew. not all.
nintendont should work, usbloadergx and wiiflow will work.
emuNAND might not work (I don't remember)
but you can't use some homebrew (no idea about HBC, but like I said you should not put homebrew on the hdd, keep them on SD, and the HDD can be detected/mounted by compatible homebrew only)


yeah, I can see your program doesn't allow you to do anything above 2TB, even if the partition starts before.

I don't know if it's a restriction from your program or not. To my understanding of the MBR format (and based on other user's report doing so) it's possible to use a 4TB drive in MBR as long as the second partition starts before the 2TB.
Maybe you could try another partition tool ? Could you try EaseUS partition ? it's a common partitioning program used by a lot of people.

I hope you can do it, but if not then GPT is a solution. But I don't know why nintendont don't see it
if you go with GPT, be sure to make 2x FAT32 (if you make one FAT32 and one NTFS, usbloadergx will crash. I tried to look at the issue but didn't see the problem yet)

Cyan,

Thanks for the prompt reply. My name is Squall btw, but you can call me KJ lol. Ok I just got done doing more tests all afternoon. Even skipped a meal cuz I was determined. Here's are my results and new questions...

The other formatting software you recommended that I keep hearing about did the SAME problems, but was actually worse. It wouldn't even let me choose my cluster size eh.

I made a mistake in regards to NINTENDONT not being able to read my hard drive as a GPT. The problem was the ISO game file was in a separate folder inside the folder labeled "GAMES". Once I put it DIRECTLY in the GAMES folder, it loaded fine. The only thing I couldn't get to work with a GPT hard drive is the emulators to load the ROMs. That's not a deal-breaker though, because that's not my original intention anyways. I have original hardware for that purpose.

As of now, the best method I can do with my 4TB hard drive as a GPT is run Homebrew apps off of a SD card like you said, and just put the GC/Wii/WIIWARE games on the external GPT hard drive for loading purposes.

NEW QUESTIONS:
1. I installed the Homebrew channel using the letterbomb method where I put in my Mac address. When you said earlier "don't put Homebrew on the HDD, and just put them on the SD" are you referring to the Homebrew channel itself, or the Homebrew apps? (eg. Usb loader, Nintendont, etc) ... My understanding is, you recommend I put all the Homebrew apps on the SD card, and load all the game files from an external hard drive through GPT compatible apps, correct? .... I guess when someone says the word Homebrew, I automatically just think of the actual Channel. Not The Homebrew apps Within.

2. Do you think my 2gb standard SD card is big/good enough to hold all the necessary apps that I need for running all GC/Wii/WIIWARE games? .. Or do you recommend a bigger 32gb SDHC?

3. Will running games off a GPT vs. MBR hard drive partition table have any affect or make any difference on game performance in anyway? ....I noticed a glitch about 2 minutes ago, but it could just be a random typical glitch that anything can have (Even thebWii/GC itself). The sound got glitchy and started to echo until I hit start to start game.

Reason I ask is because If MBR hard drives run wii Homebrew games better and faster, then I will invest in two 2TB hard drives, and just use my 4TB for something else.

 

[tswntk]

1. Homebrew is a general term. The Home brew channel itself is the hack/softmod that allows other homebrew to run on the Wii
4. 2G SD should be enough for general uses, but if you have to run roms/covers/emunand from SD, that could quickly fill it up. IIRC, uneek (emunand) doesn't support GPT.
SD is recommended as it is always available. HDD might have compatibility issues. I don't think Homebrew channel supports GPT either so you can't run homebrews via it.
5 I don't think there is noticeable performance between GPT and MBR apart from compatibility problems.

Read https://superuser.com/questions/1028238/mbr-max-of-2tib-on-each-partition-or-on-disk for a better understanding of your problem. As Cyan noticed, your HDD is probably a rare 4TB drive with 512 physical sector size so you are out of luck (some drive might actually be 4096 but emulates 512, you will have to check with the drive manufacturer)

 

[Cyan]

It wouldn't even let me choose my cluster size eh.

cluster size is a file system formatting style (FAT32 use clusters).
can't you create empty, non formatted partitions? there shouldn't be any cluster size to provide yet.

run Homebrew apps off of a SD card like you said, and just put the GC/Wii/WIIWARE games on the external GPT hard drive for loading purposes.

I'm not sure wiiware will work. I really not remember if cIOS and/or neek can mount GPT (though, it's really nothing hard to add compatibility, the important thing is the partition being FAT32, MBR or GPT are nothing)

s of now, the best method I can do with my 4TB hard drive as a GPT is run Homebrew apps off of a SD card like you said,

Well, sorry that you couldn't do it.
I was really sure it was possible to make it MBR.

edit:
I've read the posted link above, and it's confirming what I said.
but it's "theoretically possible". based on how MBR works, it's possible, but most OS and partition manager will refuse to do it.

Note that I've emphasized the word "theoretically" several times in the preceding paragraph. The reason is that many OSes and MBR-manipulation tools will flake out once the disk size exceeds 2^32 sectors, since these OSes and tools must still refer to data beyond the 2^32-sector point.

That's right that the drive would need to access the sector above 2TB (and therefore require 64bit addressing). so, some OS might not do it properly. the comment says the OS capable of such hdd layout are the one compatible with GPT too (which means 64bit compatible, and native GPT support, Linux, Windows7+). the wii uses 64 bit values for all drives, so it would work, but you would require a compatible computer and expect the HDD to understand it to even add games to the drive. (the hdd should understand it, or it wouldn't be 4TB).

So, the solution : use GPT, or get a new 4TB drive (hopefully not one with 512byte/sector, which are very rare).

Sorry that I insisted in telling you it was possible and thought you did something wrong.
So, it's possible, but not easy or common.
I guess all users who did it didn't have a 512B/sector drive. most are manufactured in 4096B now.

When you said earlier "don't put Homebrew on the HDD, and just put them on the SD" are you referring to the Homebrew channel itself, or the Homebrew apps?

I was referring to the homebrew apps. (the /apps/ folder on SD card).
having the apps/ on SD card is more stable, because some users have HDD initialization issues and therefore the Homebrew Channel can "lose" access to the HDD, resulting in either : 1) no homebrew listed in HBC, 2) listed but once launched the HDD is deactivated temporarilly and the launched homebrew can't load its own settings saved on the hdd (user settings, emulator savegame, roms, etc.)
3) I'm not sure if HBC works with GPT, which would result in no listed homebrew either.

I put all the Homebrew apps on the SD card, and load all the game files from an external hard drive through GPT compatible apps, correct?

yes

I guess when someone says the word Homebrew, I automatically just think of the actual Channel. Not The Homebrew apps Within.

they both are homebrew. the HBC is a homebrew launching other homebrew. but I talked about the place where you put your homebrew's boot.dol, as the channel are installed on the console not on SD or HDD.

4. Do you think my 2gb standard SD card is big/good enough to hold all the necessary apps that I need for running all GC/Wii/WIIWARE games? .. Or do you recommend a bigger 32gb SDHC?

hold the apps : it's even too big.
adds games to it : it's enough, depends which/how many games you want to add. If emulators and emuNAND don't work with GPT you'll have to stick with SD card for these ROMs and Wiiware games. Up to you to know if 2TB is enough for all your wanted data (snes ROMs are small, 1MB?, wiiware are 40MB max, etc.)

to me, 2TB is enough if you are a player (playing the game you want and put on SD). If you are a collection freak (wanting them all but actually never playing any game at all because you spend time grabbing them instead of enjoying them) then no, you won't have enough.

5. Will running games off a GPT vs. MBR hard drive partition table have any affect or make any difference on game performance in anyway?

no difference at all.
the FAT32 partition is what's important.
the partition table format, telling where the FAT32 is located, has no effect on the performance. it just contains the starting position of the partition you are mounting.
MBR and GPT are identical in terms of features/compatibility. they are just maps to actual partitions, they just have a different format (MBR uses one sector to define up to 4 primary partition's starting position in 32bit values, GPT uses multiple sectors (one sector per partition) to define the each partition's starting sector in 64bit values)
that's probably not useful to end users

just know that MBR or GPT have no performance differences.

If MBR hard drives run wii Homebrew games better and faster, then I will invest in two 2TB hard drives, and just use my 4TB for something else.

the games loading/reading speed is limited by the console itself. the Wii has a limit on almost everything, Wifi speed is capped, SD speed and USB speed too, the speed is dependent on the IOS you are using, not the SD or HDD.

If you want the best USB access speed, you should use cIOS based on IOS56 (usually installed in slot 249 in most guides). but this base is not working with all games, some will require base 57 (usually installed in slot250).
base57 is slightly slower than 56 (I'm not even sure you'll notice unless you use a game with very long loading time, such as One piece Adventure and count the seconds).


I recommend using base57 by default.

 

[KJonline]

It's cool, man. I knew itd be possible, but very unlikely based on what drive I got. Guess I got unlikely with the time I purchased the drive, but it's ok, because I learned a lot from you, and learned that GPT is fine with what I need it to do, and the Homebrew apps can always be ran through SD CARDS. There is always a way lol.

As far as WiiWare goes, if they can't be read off the hdd, then I'll just use a bigger SD card. 32-64gb should be enough to hold them since they don't exceed 40mb. Not going to add roms or emulators. I believe in NATIVE gameplay with no input lag. Not into emulation at all.

1. Speaking of EmuNAND and NOOK. .. Is that emulating the WiiWare games or is it full native play as of it were the real thing? ... I'm not Talking about the virtual console games, but the actual official exclusive WiiWare games like the Castlevania remake for example.

2. Also, I read that it doesn't matter what size SD card is used as long as it's formatted to "FAT32 32k clusters" like everything else, correct? .. If I were to use a 64gb for example.

3. On that last paragraph you wrote, you mentioned USB access speed and ways to tweak it. I was completely unaware of this. That's pretty cool. I'm also now in fear that me further getting my Wii ready might be rather difficult as far as getting it prepared to run wiiware wad files and my wbfs Wii games. Is all that really that difficult???

4. There are sources everywhere for tutorials and videos. I've noticed this guy on YouTube "TECH JAMES" who has a channel dedicated to Wii Homebrew and getting it ready for newbies like me. He even shows how to get the WII OS backed up just in case I accidentally brick it during the process. If you don't mind, can you kind of check this channel out and see if it's a good accurate tutorial guide for me?... Also, do you have a link or source you recommend that I follow to get my Wii ready FLAWLESSLY as well? ... I want to get everything done right, and I don't want to miss anything.

Here's the link to TECH JAMES guide...
Jailbreaking The Wii Complete Guide: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaxLBqFJUhaOCqvKsj1LYuLLBBENkB3Ct

 

[KJonline]

cluster size is a file system formatting style (FAT32 use clusters).
can't you create empty, non formatted partitions? there shouldn't be any cluster size to provide yet.


I'm not sure wiiware will work. I really not remember if cIOS and/or neek can mount GPT (though, it's really nothing hard to add compatibility, the important thing is the partition being FAT32, MBR or GPT are nothing)



Well, sorry that you couldn't do it.
I was really sure it was possible to make it MBR.

edit:
I've read the posted link above, and it's confirming what I said.
but it's "theoretically possible". based on how MBR works, it's possible, but most OS and partition manager will refuse to do it.

That's right that the drive would need to access the sector above 2TB (and therefore require 64bit addressing). so, some OS might not do it properly. the comment says the OS capable of such hdd layout are the one compatible with GPT too (which means 64bit compatible, and native GPT support, Linux, Windows7+). the wii uses 64 bit values for all drives, so it would work, but you would require a compatible computer and expect the HDD to understand it to even add games to the drive. (the hdd should understand it, or it wouldn't be 4TB).

So, the solution : use GPT, or get a new 4TB drive (hopefully not one with 512byte/sector, which are very rare).

Sorry that I insisted in telling you it was possible and thought you did something wrong.
So, it's possible, but not easy or common.
I guess all users who did it didn't have a 512B/sector drive. most are manufactured in 4096B now.


I was referring to the homebrew apps. (the /apps/ folder on SD card).
having the apps/ on SD card is more stable, because some users have HDD initialization issues and therefore the Homebrew Channel can "lose" access to the HDD, resulting in either : 1) no homebrew listed in HBC, 2) listed but once launched the HDD is deactivated temporarilly and the launched homebrew can't load its own settings saved on the hdd (user settings, emulator savegame, roms, etc.)
3) I'm not sure if HBC works with GPT, which would result in no listed homebrew either.


yes


they both are homebrew. the HBC is a homebrew launching other homebrew. but I talked about the place where you put your homebrew's boot.dol, as the channel are installed on the console not on SD or HDD.


hold the apps : it's even too big.
adds games to it : it's enough, depends which/how many games you want to add. If emulators and emuNAND don't work with GPT you'll have to stick with SD card for these ROMs and Wiiware games. Up to you to know if 2TB is enough for all your wanted data (snes ROMs are small, 1MB?, wiiware are 40MB max, etc.)

to me, 2TB is enough if you are a player (playing the game you want and put on SD). If you are a collection freak (wanting them all but actually never playing any game at all because you spend time grabbing them instead of enjoying them) then no, you won't have enough.


no difference at all.
the FAT32 partition is what's important.
the partition table format, telling where the FAT32 is located, has no effect on the performance. it just contains the starting position of the partition you are mounting.
MBR and GPT are identical in terms of features/compatibility. they are just maps to actual partitions, they just have a different format (MBR uses one sector to define up to 4 primary partition's starting position in 32bit values, GPT uses multiple sectors (one sector per partition) to define the each partition's starting sector in 64bit values)
that's probably not useful to end users

just know that MBR or GPT have no performance differences.


the games loading/reading speed is limited by the console itself. the Wii has a limit on almost everything, Wifi speed is capped, SD speed and USB speed too, the speed is dependent on the IOS you are using, not the SD or HDD.

If you want the best USB access speed, you should use cIOS based on IOS56 (usually installed in slot 249 in most guides). but this base is not working with all games, some will require base 57 (usually installed in slot250).
base57 is slightly slower than 56 (I'm not even sure you'll notice unless you use a game with very long loading time, such as One piece Adventure and count the seconds).


I recommend using base57 by default.

Ok I have a new update now....
I have followed the tutorial guide on the previous link I shared from TECH JAMES on YOUTUBE. Everything is installed that Is needed to run Wii, GC, and WiiWare.

So Here's what I've done so far...

1. I've installed BOOTMii and PRIILOADER for backup purposes, and made a backup copy of my NAND on my PC.

2. I've installed WAD MANAGER for the WAD files/WiiWare games. I've read that is recommended to use something called Emunand with NOOK to prevent the Wii from getting bricked, but wad manager seems to be working fine for me with a game I've tested unless you recommend I go to EmuNAND for safety purposes. Im unaware of the risks and differences.

3. Installed everything else required FOR USB LOADER GX to work. Everything loads fine. I've tested a USB JUMP drive with a WBSF wii game on it, and it ran fine.

HOWEVER, in reference to the issue we've been talking about for past few days regarding my hard drive...
when I hook up my external 4tb USB hard drive that I split into TWO PARTITIONS fat32 32k primary of 2tb each, USB LOADER GX was having hard time passing the load screen. Eventually I got it to read and load up after few attemlts. Unfortunately, it's only showing 2TB of space usable for the games. Keep in mind I have 2 partitions of 2tb each. So I figured the app settings needed to be tweaked. Unfortunately, everytime I try to tweak the settings under HARD DRIVE SETTINGS on the app, USB Loader would freeze with distorted colors, and I've have to hard reset the Wii without any saved changed. I've also tried tricking usb loader by changing the set I tings while I had a jump drive connected, and then resetting the Wii and loading usb loader with the hard drive, but then I get the black screen with white texts.

Basically, For some weird reason USB loader will only detects one partition from my 4 terabyte hard drive, and when I try to change the settings for it to read the other partition, it crashes.

I'm so close to Victory and getting this Wii mod complete. I've spent many hours and lost lots of sleep. Will you please help me, bro? We have come so close so far.

 

[Cyan]

followed a video tutorial ? damn....
be happy you didn't brick.

1. I've installed BOOTMii

bootmii as IOS or as boot2? or both ?

2. I've installed WAD MANAGER

are you sure you "installed" a manager into the console?
homebrew don't install themselves, they are just copied to SD and launched from there without any installation required.

Channels can be installed, but I don't recommend doing that, because you probably installed an outdated channel version. Old wad manager are using old hacks and don't work correctly.
don't use old homebrew when newer are available.

wad manager seems to be working fine for me with a game I've tested

sure, as long as you don't install a bad WAD, it'll not brick. one chance out of 2 every time you install a wad from obscure sources (piracy) or random wads with corrupted banners (banner brick).

neek is not the only option to prevent brick, it's like the guide (youtube?) didn't explain things and forces users to do what they think is best, but it's what I'm against in video tutorial : forced guide with forced setup without taking in account choices and differences (not all console have all the same setup, and guide author don't know that because they are noobs who think they can make tutorial just after managing to follow another tutorial themselves and forgetting steps).


There are three different choices for WADs :
- real NAND (wii memory)
- emuNAND cIOS (copy of the memory to external drive, 80% compatibility, easy)
- emuNAND neek/neek2o (same, but 98% compatiblity, additional setup required, slower, harder to understand maybe)



No idea about your partition issue, I'd prefer if you had a crash with numbers on screen (code dump), instead of weird colors. That's new to me, never seen that before.

 

[KJonline]

followed a video tutorial ? damn....
be happy you didn't brick.


bootmii as IOS or as boot2? or both ?


are you sure you "installed" a manager into the console?
homebrew don't install themselves, they are just copied to SD and launched from there without any installation required.

Channels can be installed, but I don't recommend doing that, because you probably installed an outdated channel version. Old wad manager are using old hacks and don't work correctly.
don't use old homebrew when newer are available.


sure, as long as you don't install a bad WAD, it'll not brick. one chance out of 2 every time you install a wad from obscure sources (piracy) or random wads with corrupted banners (banner brick).

neek is not the only option to prevent brick, it's like the guide (youtube?) didn't explain things and forces users to do what they think is best, but it's what I'm against in video tutorial : forced guide with forced setup without taking in account choices and differences (not all console have all the same setup, and guide author don't know that because they are noobs who think they can make tutorial just after managing to follow another tutorial themselves and forgetting steps).


There are three different choices for WADs :
- real NAND (wii memory)
- emuNAND cIOS (copy of the memory to external drive, 80% compatibility, easy)
- emuNAND neek/neek2o (same, but 98% compatiblity, additional setup required, slower, harder to understand maybe)



No idea about your partition issue, I'd prefer if you had a crash with numbers on screen (code dump), instead of weird colors. That's new to me, never seen that before.

What's up, bro!

1.Don't know what difference is between BOOTMii as iOS or as boot2. All I remember is backing up my NAND on SD card through BOOTMii and then I transfered the necccisary files to my PC incase I need to reinstall original NAND incase of a brisk. I also installed something called Priiloader that was said to help keep wii safe.

I basically followed TECH JAMES tutorial step by step on his Wii channel.
If you have time and patience, you can always check out the link on his tutorial if you feel it was good enough, or if you need to figure out exactly how I modded my Wii. It's good to have reassurance on if I did it SAFELY.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaxLBqFJUhaOCqvKsj1LYuLLBBENkB3Ct

2. My mistake, when I said I installed wad manager, I meant I was running it off the SD card with all the other apps just like you suggested. I'm also aware that installing wads on to the Wii is risky. I've only done two wiiware wad games just to test it out. Personally, I'd prefer the safe route you mentioned with the EMUNAND and/neek nook that I keep reading about online. I just wasn't sure exactly how to do that. It looked rather difficult. TECH JAMES didn't have a tutorial for it.

3. Didn't know it was not recommended to install channels. As of now, the only Channel I have installed is wiiflow as an alternate to USB loader GX, because I couldn't get my hard drive's second partition to run on USB loader GX. Unfortunately, the same issue is happening with Wiiflow. It doesn't read the second partition. Then when I go into settings to select USB2 (Wiiflow settings for example) which I'm assuming means second partition, it always freezes up on both apps.

4. Yes, I honestly don't know what went wrong with the hard drive issue. I did everything correctly that I read about, and everything that you advised. Let me go over it one last time to make sure I formatted it correctly...

Remember I have a 4tb seagate external USB powered hard drive.

First, I deleted all partitions for a fresh start. Then I kept the partition table as a GPT. Then I created two partitions formatted at FAT32 32k clusters at 2tb each. Both partitions already at PRIMARY.

Yes, USB Loader, Wii flow, & NintenDONT all work like you mentioned before, but ONLY the first partition. Everytime I try to go into the wiiflow or USB loader GX settings for it to try to read the second partition, and that's when the Wii and app freeze/crash, and I have to always do a hard reset

QUESTIONS:
1. Is USB loader GX and wiiflow supposed to automatically detect the second partition to begin with?

2. Which is the best method for running wad files, and do those other methods you mentioned cause any INPUT LAG compared to installing wads directly onto the Wii?

3. If I still can't get the second partition to work through wiiflow or USB loader, do you have any other suggestions or a back-up plan?

... So close to victory here ugh!