Homebrew Wii VC vs Emulators

[eriol33]

hello, I'm just wondering, which one has better accuracy on emulating games? Wii VC or emulators? also, can we run VC games (wad files?) natively?

 

[Lacius]

hello, I'm just wondering, which one has better accuracy on emulating games? Wii VC or emulators?

It depends on the console. For most consoles, there's no real difference between Wii VC and emulators. I typically use emulators because there are more setting options. For more graphically intensive games, such as N64 games, Wii VC works better. The N64 emulator for the Wii was never great.

 

[Chaos Rush]

It depends on the system. In most cases, VC is guaranteed to be fully working and playable (they obviously won't release anything their emulators can't play). However, Wii U VC for NES games has input lag, which is annoying (old Wii NES VC is fine though).

There is one exception to this though: SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive games. Nintendo's (or SEGA's?) Genesis/Mega Drive emulator that they used for Wii VC titles is not as accurate as the homebrew SEGA emulator, Genesis Plus GX. Genesis Plus GX is one of the most accurate SEGA emulators, and completely blows the VC SEGA games out of the water. One example of inaccuracy is the Lava Reef Zone Act 2 boss in Sonic (3) & Knuckles, when the lava becomes a slope towards the end of the fight. In the Wii VC version, the lava slope is all jagged and wrong, almost like a staircase. On Genesis Plus GX (and an actual SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive), the lava is a smooth slope, being a properly rotated texture.

Anyhow, VC is 100% guaranteed to work and is playable, but emulators are pretty good too. But for SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive titles, Homebrew emulation is better and more accurate.

For me it's:
NES games - FCE Ultra GX or Wii VC (don't use Wii U VC for NES because of input lag)
SNES games - Snes 9x GX or Wii U VC
N64 games - Wii VC
GB/GBC games - VBA GX fork that someone posted here (don't use 3DS VC because no way to remap buttons)
GBA games - Wii U VC (the emulator they're using was developed by M2, and it's perfect) or my backlit GBA
Genesis/Mega Drive games - Genesis Plus GX (more accurate than Wii VC)

 

[the_randomizer]

Unofficial emulators allow me to play games that third parties and Nintendo refuse to release on the eShop, so to me, unofficial emulation reigns supreme. In NES emulation, like Nestopia Undead on RetroArch Wii, has a much better color palette than the Wii U NES emulator has, which is sad lol.

 

[SuperrSonic]

There is one exception to this though: SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive games. Nintendo's (or SEGA's?)

All the Sega emus and ports in VC were done by M2. I've never heard of that Lava Reef problem, I kind of want to check but I don't have the VC version.

I've never seen it pointed out but the NES games on both Wii, 3DS and Wii U are vertically cropped for no apparent reason, really shows on the gamepad; I imagine. Wii U version uses bilinear, well the test I did made it look identical to bilinear anyway.
I don't get why people complain about the colors, it looks good and it is fact that there is no correct palette.
Plus, doesn't it bother you that the official palette used by Nintendo on almost every occasion* is not supported by third party emulators? Now that's sad.

*Technically the NES Classics series had bright colors, but the GBA had no backlight so it all balances out to look around the same as VC.

 

[TecXero]

Emulators will give you a lot more options and interchangeable saves with other emulators, not to mention it doesn't require as much hassle (I'm talking about custom VC WADs, I'm not going to spend $10 for a digital copy of a game over 10 years old that I already own)

That said, Nintendo knows how to code for their own systems and emulate their own systems than most coders out there stuck making an emulator from scratch. So, higher end systems, like the N64, I'd recommend using VC WADs for.

Unofficial emulators allow me to play games that third parties and Nintendo refuse to release on the eShop, so to me, unofficial emulation reigns supreme. In NES emulation, like Nestopia Undead on RetroArch Wii, has a much better color palette than the Wii U NES emulator has, which is sad lol.

You can inject your own ROMs into the Wii VC WADs, just responding to your first point. I agree everywhere else, when you have an emulator that runs at fullspeed, then it's far better than VC.

 

[OriginalHamster]

Unofficial emulators allow me to play games that third parties and Nintendo refuse to release on the eShop, so to me, unofficial emulation reigns supreme. In NES emulation, like Nestopia Undead on RetroArch Wii, has a much better color palette than the Wii U NES emulator has, which is sad lol.

Do we know that Nintendo refuse to release third party games on Wii U, or it's just some third parties (*cough*Sega*cough*) are not interested enough?
There's a bunch of Capcom and Konami VC games.

 

[the_randomizer]

Do we know that Nintendo refuse to release third party games on Wii U, or it's just some third parties (*cough*Sega*cough*) are not interested enough?
There's a bunch of Capcom and Konami VC games.

Ah, but Europe and Japan have the DKC trilogy on the Wii U VC, care to explain that? So maybe third parties just don't want their games on there, I don't know. Whatever the reason may be, they're not gonna be on there anytime soon. I wouldn't count on that, or Nintendo putting N64 games on the eShop despite them being advertised on Nintendo's VC page (on NOA's website). Hackers really do what Nintendont.

Emulators will give you a lot more options and interchangeable saves with other emulators, not to mention it doesn't require as much hassle (I'm talking about custom VC WADs, I'm not going to spend $10 for a digital copy of a game over 10 years old that I already own)

That said, Nintendo knows how to code for their own systems and emulate their own systems than most coders out there stuck making an emulator from scratch. So, higher end systems, like the N64, I'd recommend using VC WADs for.

You can inject your own ROMs into the Wii VC WADs, just responding to your first point. I agree everywhere else, when you have an emulator that runs at fullspeed, then it's far better than VC.

Problem with WAD injection is that it's risky and can potentially brick your Wii. Not to mention some games, you can't even save in-game as there is no mempak emulation in some of the injected ROM files. The other beef I have is I don't like the unfiltered look of VC games, the 4:3 aspect ratio, I don't care if "that's how it was supposed to look", they look like crap on new TVs. The N64 on the Wii only had 21 games ever released which is pretty sad. WAD injection is very risky.

 

[Chaos Rush]

All the Sega emus and ports in VC were done by M2. I've never heard of that Lava Reef problem, I kind of want to check but I don't have the VC version.

M2 knows their shit sure, but Genesis Plus GX is the more accurate emulator. Ask any of the tech members from Sonic Retro, and they can go on and on about why Genesis Plus GX is the superior emulator over M2's emulator for Wii VC (I mean the same guys who make those crazy Sonic hacks via disassembly that know every difference between Genesis models and how it compares to the 'official' emulators used in SEGA's compilation releases). https://code.google.com/p/genplus-gx/wiki/Features

Plus, doesn't it bother you that the official palette used by Nintendo on almost every occasion* is not supported by third party emulators? Now that's sad.

Actually that's no longer true, someone over here modded FCE Ultra GX to include Nintendo's NES palette.
EDIT: Ok I just remembered that was actually you who released that very mod I speak of.

 

[the_randomizer]

M2 knows their shit sure, but Genesis Plus GX is the more accurate emulator. Ask any of the tech members from Sonic Retro, and they can go on and on about why Genesis Plus GX is the superior emulator over M2's emulator for Wii VC (I mean the same guys who make those crazy Sonic hacks via disassembly that know every difference between Genesis models and how it compares to the 'official' emulators used in SEGA's compilation releases).



Actually that's no longer true, someone over here modded FCE Ultra GX to include Nintendo's NES palette.

Yes, the sound effects on M2's emulator for the Wii are off, the YM2612 emulation isn't as accurate. Genesis Plus is far superior in emulation, I don't know why people don't realize that. Now with GBA emulation, M2 has near-perfect emulation for their games, and with corrected palettes, how the games were meant to look without looking washed out. Something unofficial GBA emulation can't do on the Wii, full speed and good colors.

 

[OriginalHamster]

Ah, but Europe and Japan have the DKC trilogy on the Wii U VC, care to explain that? So maybe third parties just don't want their games on there, I don't know. Whatever the reason may be, they're not gonna be on there anytime soon. I wouldn't count on that, or Nintendo putting N64 games on the eShop despite them being advertised on Nintendo's VC page (on NOA's website). Hackers really do what Nintendont.

DKC trilogy are first party games, not releasing those in america is mostly NoA incompetence when it comes to localization, but you were refering to Nintendo refusing to publish third party games, when it has nothing to do with them (well maybe more incentives, but that besides the point).

Nintendo not releasing first party games is totally petty though, I agree with that, they promised N64, and DS games, and still nothing.

 

[the_randomizer]

DKC trilogy are first party games, not releasing those in america is mostly NoA incompetence when it comes to localization, but you were refering to Nintendo refusing to publish third party games, when it has nothing to do with them (well maybe more incentives, but that besides the point).

Nintendo not releasing first party games is totally petty though, I agree with that, they promised N64, and DS games, and still nothing.

So, this is why I'm waiting for N64 and DS emulators to be ported over to the Wii U, and it will happen eventually. First part games not being released shows how asinine and damning Nintendo of America runs their release schedule. Even Europe has gotten one DS game, Brain Age. I'm sorry, but I can't support a service that isn't well maintained or treated as an afterthought. Back to using unofficial emulation for me

 

[N4M3LE5S]

so what is the consensus on this? 1) install the wads 2) use the emulators provided via the homebrew channel or 3) a combo of both, though seems to be a hassle considering you're going to & fro from wads to emulation.

simply looking for a better streamlined solution to this shenanigans

 

[TecXero]

Problem with WAD injection is that it's risky and can potentially brick your Wii. Not to mention some games, you can't even save in-game as there is no mempak emulation in some of the injected ROM files. The other beef I have is I don't like the unfiltered look of VC games, the 4:3 aspect ratio, I don't care if "that's how it was supposed to look", they look like crap on new TVs. The N64 on the Wii only had 21 games ever released which is pretty sad. WAD injection is very risky.

I'm not a fan of VC or WAD injection either, due to the lack of options. It's just a necessary evil if you want playable N64 emulation on your Wii. Not64 is coming along nicely, but not exactly what I'd want to use if I just want to sit back and enjoy a N64 game without worries of it randomly crashing. Luckily, rather like how things look unfiltered and I can just set my TV to display at 4:3 for the correct aspect ratio. So it's just a matter of what you value more. Overall, I prefer homebrew Emulators for everything else, like SNES and Genesis, as they've leaps and bounds better than the crappy VC alternative.

 

[Sky Design]

Has no one else experienced Frame Drops on the emulators? Any of them. I mainly get alot of frame issues on the Genesis. Actually in fact every game I've used on VC compared to Emulator has outperformed it. I'd say the only thing that I absolutely hate about VC is I can't re-assign the godforsaken buttons! Seriously, Super Mario World with a GC controller is a nightmare on VC.

 

[GHANMI]

Wii N64 VC seems to be missing lots of sound and graphical features at least in Ocarina of Time (not even accounting for the extension pack features).
3DS GBC VC is missing GBA-mode detection.
3DS GBA VC is very lacking.

Wii Megadrive VC is perfect.
Wii/Wii-U SNES emulation can handle SA-1 (Mario RPG, Marvelous), CX4 (Megaman X2/3), DSP-1 (Mario Kart, Pilotwings) but little else. Very imperfect emulation.

Wii/3DS NES VC is good, Wii U isn't.

 

[the_randomizer]

Has no one else experienced Frame Drops on the emulators? Any of them. I mainly get alot of frame issues on the Genesis. Actually in fact every game I've used on VC compared to Emulator has outperformed it. I'd say the only thing that I absolutely hate about VC is I can't re-assign the godforsaken buttons! Seriously, Super Mario World with a GC controller is a nightmare on VC.

If you're using the GX emulators, then yes, they use frame skipping. If you're using RetroArch Wii (Snes9x Next, Nestopia Undead, etc), they use absolutely no frame skipping and run full speed. You need to try those emulators out, they are far superior in terms of speed than the GX emulators. They are well-optimized and use speed optimizations without skipping frames, and are in fact superior to the VC in many ways. M2 wrote the Genesis emulator for the Wii, but has issues in the YM2612 emulation (sound).

 

[Jacobeian]

Has no one else experienced Frame Drops on the emulators? Any of them. I mainly get alot of frame issues on the Genesis. Actually in fact every game I've used on VC compared to Emulator has outperformed it.

It must be some configuration issue because all games I tried on homebrew emulators run fullspeed without any issues, besides a few SNES games that had frameskipping sometimes. Genesis games surely run fullspeed for me, with no skipping or sound issues, be sure to use the last version of each emulators as well.

If you're using the GX emulators, then yes, they use frame skipping. If you're using RetroArch Wii (Snes9x Next, Nestopia Undead, etc), they use absolutely no frame skipping and run full speed. You need to try those emulators out, they are far superior in terms of speed than the GX emulators.

Genesis Plus GX standalone does not use frameskipping and runs faster than the Retroarch version (you can see it if you activate FPS display and frame throttle in both of them, I know because I tested it when it was added in genplus on googlecode).

As for others GX emulators, I don't think you really understand how frameskipping works: they use automatic frameskipping, which means they ONLY skip frames if the emulation speed goes below the needed framerate, which only happens in some SNES games from time to time (those with special chipsin it. mostly) and a lot of GBA games. Snes9x-next and VBA-next are somehow more optimized so those games are emulated faster, but it has nothing to do with frameskipping.

Frameskipping is the consequence of emulation speed, not the cause: some emulators try to fasten the speed by skipping the rendering of frame when needed, while Retroarch renders all frames in all cases, but if emulation speed is too low, the result is similar, some frames will not be displayed at the correct time (either dropped or repeated).

 

[Sky Design]

I've had RetroArch before but never used it. Can someone point me in the direction to a newer version/modified one? Assuming I didn't find it yet on my own.

Edit: I found it! Actually I'm surprised with all the trouble people have with GBA emu, how come no one mentioned Retroarch before? Pokemon runs smooth
On the reasons I've stayed off of the GBA emu is because of the frame issues. Well then looks like I got a new Emulator to mess with

 

[RCJayce]

I've had RetroArch before but never used it. Can someone point me in the direction to a newer version/modified one? Assuming I didn't find it yet on my own.

Edit: I found it! Actually I'm surprised with all the trouble people have with GBA emu, how come no one mentioned Retroarch before? Pokemon runs smooth
On the reasons I've stayed off of the GBA emu is because of the frame issues. Well then looks like I got a new Emulator to mess with

Are you using the version from their website o a modified one?