wii output now just as good as gamecube

[lucas millington]

i was watching df and john said that wii output is now just as good as gamecube due to homebrew, i always though it was the cable itself that was the issue and gamecube component just looked better

 

[callmebob]

What homebrew would that be?

 

[JuanMena]

What homebrew would that be?

Component Cable and 720p HD TV.

 

[callmebob]

Component Cable and 720p HD TV.

thanks, but that´s hardware, not software. using those anyway

 

[JuanMena]

thanks, but that´s hardware, not software. using those anyway

Oh no! I'm dumb.

 

[Ouaz]

Simply because Wii games, even with a component cable and 480p, had still a deflicker filter applied.
It's even worse on Wii PAL that can't display some games in 480p (Zelda TP for example).

All that due to a bug in the SDK or something like that, never understood exactly the whole thing.

Homebrews fixed all that (noticeably USB Loader GX)

https://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-output-is-fixed-hooray.628514/

 

[torrent_get]

Linneman must be referring to the wii 480P bug.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-480p-video-bug-discovered.536599/

EDIT: As above

 

[morning_glory]

i always though it was the cable itself that was the issue and gamecube component just looked better

I always thought GC games looked more appealing than Wii games. Regardless of resolution (?). Old age/dementia ... What was I trying to say

 

[lucas millington]

Linneman must be referring to the wii 480P bug.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-480p-video-bug-discovered.536599/

EDIT: As above

it says thats for wii games tho, or is it a problem for gamecube games aswell on wii

 

[Maeson]

It definitely has to be the deflicker thing, it's the single biggest change, even if there are other things that can also aid, although the 480p is a much smaller difference in comparison.

And GC games have deflicker pretty much always on too (unless you're a few of the games that had it as a setting like Sonic Heroes), so in that regard there's no difference between systems.

I am still very glad we learnt how to remove it.

 

[lucas millington]

It definitely has to be the deflicker thing, it's the single biggest change, even if there are other things that can also aid, although the 480p is a much smaller difference in comparison.

And GC games have deflicker pretty much always on too (unless you're a few of the games that had it as a setting like Sonic Heroes), so in that regard there's no difference between systems.

I am still very glad we learnt how to remove it.

wait if gc games also have deflicker on then how can it be that

 

[Maeson]

Of course GC games have deflicker, it's on by default and only a handful of games lets you remove it as I said.

This is because by default the GameCube, just like the PS2 and the Dreamcast play in 480i. Interlaced resolutions bring flickering to refresh the image, which without any filter show a noticeable vertical shake of the image they show, and can cause eye strain or, depending on your eyes something worse.

It was a measure to protect people, basically.

Dreamcast removes this filter if you play through VGA, as it's not needed on 480p (p stands for Progressive, in which the entire screen refreshes at the same time, so the issue above doesn't happen). Gamecube had a fine enough support for 480p, but it was game dependant, and only part of the GC's library supported it (and even then, no PAL game has it as far as I remember, only NTSC).

PS2 is in all honestly is the worst performing among the four systems of that generation. It's not only terrible at offering 480p support, with very few games giving you the choice, it's also really inconsistent at having deflicker, or nothing at all, with some games having it, many others not.

In any case, because how CRTs work, which were the displays used during the time of those systems, the deflicker filter wasn't an issue, mostly the opposite, and again, in 480i is there to help.

When these filters started to become an issue is when the change to flat panels started to become the norm. Modern displays (flat screens and such) started adding their own filtering for 480i content, so you would have the system addign the deflicker, and then the tv would add its own one. So from that point, the deflicker lost its reason to be forced.

But then we have the Wii, which has support for 480p on a system level, which as mentioned, already made the filter unnecessary and basically 95% of the games support 480p. Thus by removing it you gain a significant boost in quality.

The many, many, many years of people saying "Wii is blurry" boiled down to the deflicker filter, and the combination of flat panels + 480i video modes forcing two filters. Or strange bugs like the PAL version of Twilight Princess putting the filter twice. It's all software related.

I guess the reason as to why the Digital Foundry person said "The Wii is at last fixed" is because on GC, removing the filter was possible through Swiss time before it was available on Wii.

 

[lucas millington]

Of course GC games have deflicker, it's on by default and only a handful of games lets you remove it as I said.

This is because by default the GameCube, just like the PS2 and the Dreamcast play in 480i. Interlaced resolutions bring flickering to refresh the image, which without any filter show a noticeable vertical shake of the image they show, and can cause eye strain or, depending on your eyes something worse.

It was a measure to protect people, basically.

Dreamcast removes this filter if you play through VGA, as it's not needed on 480p (p stands for Progressive, in which the entire screen refreshes at the same time, so the issue above doesn't happen). Gamecube had a fine enough support for 480p, but it was game dependant, and only part of the GC's library supported it (and even then, no PAL game has it as far as I remember, only NTSC).

PS2 is in all honestly is the worst performing among the four systems of that generation. It's not only terrible at offering 480p support, with very few games giving you the choice, it's also really inconsistent at having deflicker, or nothing at all, with some games having it, many others not.

In any case, because how CRTs work, which were the displays used during the time of those systems, the deflicker filter wasn't an issue, mostly the opposite, and again, in 480i is there to help.

When these filters started to become an issue is when the change to flat panels started to become the norm. Modern displays (flat screens and such) started adding their own filtering for 480i content, so you would have the system addign the deflicker, and then the tv would add its own one. So from that point, the deflicker lost its reason to be forced.

But then we have the Wii, which has support for 480p on a system level, which as mentioned, already made the filter unnecessary and basically 95% of the games support 480p. Thus by removing it you gain a significant boost in quality.

The many, many, many years of people saying "Wii is blurry" boiled down to the deflicker filter, and the combination of flat panels + 480i video modes forcing two filters. Or strange bugs like the PAL version of Twilight Princess putting the filter twice. It's all software related.

I guess the reason as to why the Digital Foundry person said "The Wii is at last fixed" is because on GC, removing the filter was possible through Swiss time before it was available on Wii.

ok but i really dont think the issue is deflicker since it would be so obvious this video goes more in depth into the problem with the wiis component quality vs gamecube

 

[Disorarara]

The gamecube SDK apparently didn't have an issue with deflicker which is why this is a Wii specific bug, apparently later video boards for the Wii fix this issue in hardware too

 

[Maeson]

You are confusing the deflicker and the 480p "bug". They are different things, and the 480p thing seems to be more complicated than just the "early ones" vs "later ones".

Honestly, I have grown tired and no longer have a firm opinion about any of this.

I've seen comparison pictures between gc and wii throughout the years and the difference between them is much smaller than what some say, others saying that you'd need to have both side to side to notice anything. All of this before the fix and the deflicker removal.

And recently (last couple of years) people saying there's little to no difference between the original gc components and wii ones, and that it was never the issue. The fact that DF and others say this points that hardwarw was never to blame, I suppose.

And then we have the more recent framebuffer width settings in USB Loader GX...

Old info and new info mix, and makes it messier too.