Hacking Why not make a ticket (.tik) installer?

[teq]

Very informative teq. The only thing I see being a hassle is download time for VC games is outrageous compared to a wad installer. Although.... the longer install times are not so bad when you figure this will allow you to add and remove VC and WiiWare games without having o use an SD card ever. Also makes it easier to pick and choose which games to install unlick an SD card where they are either all going to install, or you have a to pick a few you like, and then swap out the SD card for a different one or change which files are in the WAD directory... which requires a PC.

I would love to be able to go to a friends house and just install every ticket for every VC game, then just tell them they can go to the WiiShop and get whatever they want. Makes it alot easier then installing game after game for them. And swapping them out when they get tired of said games.

Thank you, but I have to disagree with everything you've just said.

First of all, your concern over download times is outrageous. A similar analogy to what you just said would be stealing bread from a bakery, only to return and complain that it's stale.

Since most of the virtual console titles are old and definitely made their share of revenue in their own respective eras, I couldn't really care less about stealing roms. However, what everyone has to realize is that Nintendo is also packaging emulators with each title and those were created recently. As time progresses, they will be shifting to more generic builds of emulators and every rom will be compatible. This already holds true for NES and SNES titles -- any of which can be injected. The Nintendo 64 emulator, however, is currently lacking.

I feel that if people are going to continue stealing virtual console titles, they should at least buy the emulator for each system once. The same concept could be applied to purchasing a copy of Microsoft Office: you pay a base price and they provide a certain amount of licenses.

If you buy the rom, you buy the emulator, so it really doesn't matter which rom you have loaded with it.

Now, as far as the conviniency of helping your friends steal is concerned, I don't think anyone who wants to spread the virtual console hacking to a wider spectrum has the right idea. For one, the more prevalent this is, the more Nintendo will try to do to stop it. If they're spending their time developing better copy protection for this, their releases will grow wider and wider apart. That doesn't do anyone any good.

In addition, hacking virtual console titles is archaic compared to what the homebrew community is beginning to achieve.

I don't know if any of you have realized this, but each virtual console title has a custom controller map, meaning some games will play better than others with that controller scheme. Homebrew emulators, however, allow you to reassign buttons as you see fit.

Furthermore, open source projects will lead to advancing emulation far beyond anything Nintendo is going to release. We'll be able to have control over the outcome of the emulated game. The number of consoles it'll be able to emulate will also grow tremendously. I've already seen beginnings of PSX, PSP, and NDS emulators in the works and the Wii is theoretically fast enough to handle XBOX titles, provided a good CISC to RISC interpreter is available.

 

[jinxvorheeze]

I still do not disagree with you, except that you directed your last post at me, when the only thing you had to say to me was you disagree with helping friends steal. I do not disagree that it will make nintendo more prevalent to stop allowing homebrew.

I do agree that you should purchase VC games to support the development of the emulator that Nintendo uses.

I also agree that emulators are by far HANDS DOWN a much better solution for people to play games on. I bought Super Mario World on my Wii through VC, but then played the Rom I have of it instead on the SNES Emulator. Why? Because you cannot use the gamecube controller to effectively play that game. "A" is the spinjump attack, and "X,Y" are the Run buttons........ while "B" is the normal jump button. This means no matter that you have to remove your thumb from the X or Y buttons to jump since the A button is in the way!

"the Wii is theoretically fast enough to handle XBOX titles, provided a good CISC to RISC interpreter is available" Theoretically yes. but then again the Xbox is theoretically fast enough to handle gamecube and PS2 games. Is it ever going to happen? No. It's not comprehensible for someone to code that.

As for the PSX, yes if the N64 can be emulated then so can the PSX. It will take some time, but the future truely does hold great things for the Wii. I remember when the Dreamcast Scene took off, then the Xbox scene, then the PSP Scene and I can tell you that you will see some crazy shit before this Gen is over.

DS is also a very good possibility. And with the Wiimote it would be functional.

As for the PSP. It has yet to even be emulated. (It has, but unlike the xbox emulator which can run a total of 1 game, The PSP emulator cannot run any commercial games and barely emulates homebrew). Am I saying it's not possible? No, it's possible. But it would have to be accomplished on the PC first.

Convenience for helping friends pirate games is not the only reason a ticket installer would be handy. I am often places that have access to the interent, but I don't have a computer with me. This is where it would be nice to be able to access a games list. I didn't say that the download speeds were so slow it's stupid to do, I said that compared to a WAD installer, the WiiShop is like watching grass grow.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for a ticket installer. While I said it would have some benefits these are not things that cannot be adopted to the technologies we already have. Why not create a WAD installer that works like SD Loader where you get to choose the WAD you wish to install. Then you can keep all of your files on an SD card and Add and remove the ones you want. That seems alot easier to create and alot more practical than a Ticket installer. Find the conveniences of using the WiiShop over using a WAD installer, and develop those into the programs we already have available.

As far as emulators go. I hope to see alot more emulators become developed. And the ones we have become easier to access for people new to homebrew. I think one of the bestparts of using the VC over an emulator is the ease of access. The game is directly on your Wii "Desktop" (LOL

) so accessing it is easier for people who don't understand how to run the Twilight hack or the Homebrew channel, and set there SDcard up so the Emulator finds the roms. Lets make an emulator which can be installed on the SD card, and allows you to store Roms as channels. So when you click your favorite rom it auto loads it into the emulator with saved preferences for that game, and runs. All the technology is already there. An emulator that auto loads Super Mario World when you click the channel is just as good as the VC version, if not better for the fact that it could save multiple states and controller layout preferences.

I guess in the end, I agree that there should be no ticket installer.

BTW teq, I laughed so hard when you compared stealing vc games off the wiishop to stealing bread and complaining it was stale that I almost shop Pepsi out my nose. That was a great analogy. True also, how do you complain about something you got for free.

 

[Prime]

With Wii 24 Connect on, you don't think Nintendo can see the hidden files on your Wii?

What kind of fool has WiiConnect24 turned on when having pirated VC and WiiWare games installed?

Me, i think you should say sorry now.

 

[teq]

Well, again, this whole concept of "ease of access" is very detrimental to everyone as a whole.

With great power comes great responsibility. The world knows the "bumbling idiot" far too well. Combine the two and you have bumbling idiots who are drunk on power. Look what Bush has done.


Remember when downloading mp3s first took off? Remember Napster?

How many single mothers with more kids than they can afford were sued, after they ignorantly downloaded a few songs? How many of them made the plea that they didn't know it was illegal, because it was "so easy to use"?


I think the fact that there is a slight learning curve to running homebrew makes a seperation between the ignorant and everyone else.

Stupid people treat the world like a trash can, never contributing anything beneficial.

 

[jinxvorheeze]

Yes but there's always going to be someone who knows less then you out there, and who's to say they don't deserve to use the tools at hand just because they don't spend all day at the PC learning how to do it like most of us here. I might be a new member, but that doesn't make me new to homebrew. I agree that people who can't do it for themselves probably shouldn't be doing it. I wasn't saying make it so ignorant people can use it to. I was stating that maybe somebody who wants to create a ticket installer should look into why that whould be more convenient for themselves and develop that into technology that isn't COMPLETELY illegal.

If the ease of acces to games is what makes the virtual console so appealing, find out how to make an emulator do that instead. It doesn't have to be idiot proof, but alot of people don't want to run a homebrew channel, then the emulator, then go find the game on the SD card. They would rather sit down and turn on the Wii, and click a button to play. There's nothing wrong with things being more convenient.

 

[dimmujed]

Downloading an iso/burning a game is EXACTLY the same as downloading a ticket file to get it from the Wii Shop, someone has had to pay for it prior to get the ticket etc etc. Your argument doesn't make sense.

 

[teq]

Downloading an iso/burning a game is EXACTLY the same as downloading a ticket file to get it from the Wii Shop, someone has had to pay for it prior to get the ticket etc etc. Your argument doesn't make sense.

Care to elaborate/contribute?

 

[priapism]

With Wii 24 Connect on, you don't think Nintendo can see the hidden files on your Wii?

What kind of fool has WiiConnect24 turned on when having pirated VC and WiiWare games installed?

Me, i think you should say sorry now.

wait, so if you have pirated VC titles on your Wii you are never supposed to use WiiConnect24? that doesn't seem right. you have to use WiiConnect24 for a lot of the features included with the Wii.

 

[Prime]

With Wii 24 Connect on, you don't think Nintendo can see the hidden files on your Wii?

What kind of fool has WiiConnect24 turned on when having pirated VC and WiiWare games installed?

Me, i think you should say sorry now.

wait, so if you have pirated VC titles on your Wii you are never supposed to use WiiConnect24? that doesn't seem right. you have to use WiiConnect24 for a lot of the features included with the Wii.

Your not "never" supposed to use wiiconnect 24 with pirated vc/wiiware games installer it is just incase nintendo notices. I do, and i have not got a ban or anything yet.

 

[jinxvorheeze]

Alot of people still use WiiConnect24. It's hard to tell if the big N will use this fact against them or not.

 

[teq]

wait, so if you have pirated VC titles on your Wii you are never supposed to use WiiConnect24? that doesn't seem right. you have to use WiiConnect24 for a lot of the features included with the Wii.

Wii24Connect is perfectly fine, as long as you OPT OUT of the Nintendo Channel information collector.

I would also disable the standby connection, just in case they decide to slip something past us and update the firmware.

 

[dimmujed]

Someone buys a game disc, leaks it online, you download and burn it for free. Someone buys a WiiWare titles, leaks it online, you download the ticket and download the game for free. Either way someone pays, and others download for free.

Either way you are getting THE SAME FILES just from different places. Pirating=pirating no matter how you spin it.

I wish I knew how to make a program to do just tickets, but I don't.

 

[bennydigital]

I don't think they can force a update on you unless it's on a game.

 

[jinxvorheeze]

Someone buys a game disc, leaks it online, you download and burn it for free. Someone buys a WiiWare titles, leaks it online, you download the ticket and download the game for free. Either way someone pays, and others download for free.

Either way you are getting THE SAME FILES just from different places. Pirating=pirating no matter how you spin it.

I wish I knew how to make a program to do just tickets, but I don't.

I agree with you about the Piracy is the Same no matter where you get it. On the other hand, is it more descrete to copy a CD someone you know has bought, or walk into walmart and take it yourself? One is copyright infringment (downloaded VC games from the net) The other is considered hacking an encrypted network and theft (Going in to the Wiishop and Downloading VC games from there encrypted servers without permission). You payng for the ability to download the game from Nintendo when you buy a VC game.

Getting the files online, and downloading them directly from Nintendo's servers are two different things. They might both be illegal, but one of them is much higher risk, and also much more obvious then the other.

 

[teq]

Someone buys a game disc, leaks it online, you download and burn it for free. Someone buys a WiiWare titles, leaks it online, you download the ticket and download the game for free. Either way someone pays, and others download for free.

Either way you are getting THE SAME FILES just from different places. Pirating=pirating no matter how you spin it.

I wish I knew how to make a program to do just tickets, but I don't.

Pirating is pirating, no matter what.... but the difference between getting caught and not is significant. I don't know why the parent would want to download the virtual console titles..... that would just mean getting caught more easily.

I would get a ticket installer going, but I'm lazy and would need either the WAD Installer source or NAND Dumper. Also, I would focus on an uninstaller before making the installer...

bennydigitalI don't think they can force a update on you unless it's on a game.

They can do whatever they want. If they decide to mandate an update, I'm positive it can be done without any way to circumvent it.

There's always user ignorance to look forward to -- like how they slipped data logging into the Nintendo Channel. I wonder how many people just accepted without reading it. By the way, you could never use the channel and still be logged if you've opted in.

 

[priapism]

wait, so if you have pirated VC titles on your Wii you are never supposed to use WiiConnect24? that doesn't seem right. you have to use WiiConnect24 for a lot of the features included with the Wii.

Wii24Connect is perfectly fine, as long as you OPT OUT of the Nintendo Channel information collector.

I would also disable the standby connection, just in case they decide to slip something past us and update the firmware.

i uninstalled the entire Nintendo Channel before i even started loading these VC games onto my Wii. that whole channel seems kind of suspicious. "you want my gameplay info, Nintendo? i don't think so." the NDS demo thing is pretty cool but i have my NDS modded anyway so i can "demo" the games myself. hahaha.

i actually use WiiConnect24 a lot to chat with friends and my brother. i know its cheesy but i like it. also my girlfriend loves the Everybody Votes Channel. haha.

 

[lou_weed]

Downloading an iso/burning a game is EXACTLY the same as downloading a ticket file to get it from the Wii Shop, someone has had to pay for it prior to get the ticket etc etc. Your argument doesn't make sense.

Well its not exactly the same , as i wrote before : downloading an iso/wad as a complete product is like stealing from the shop and getting away with it.

But, Installing a ticket and downloading from nintendo shop is like going with a fake printed preorder invoice to a shop , and tell them you paid for a product.

Can you tell the difference ?

Would you go to gamestop with a folder full of fake invoices , and grab a copy of each game the wii has , because it got a more convenient box , a manual , and the disc looks nicer ?

 

[dimmujed]

I spose you are somewhat correct about the encryption hacking and what not, but since they don't even have a way to verify if you bought the game and what not. Just like Teq said, there are many ways that you could be doing this legit.

I don't think Nintendo really have a method to differentiate this, and I really don't think they will do anything. I mean look at the PSP, it still sells well and it is the most hacked system out there. I mean they could try to do something, but just like the PSP, we will always know a way around their blocks or figure one out.

It's futile to even try, they will only slow us down for a week or so. And in reality, piracy isn't that big of an issue, like PC game makers try to make it sound like. With games like GTA IV leaking early, yet making the biggest sales of entertainment EVER I think is proof enough.

 

[jan777]

this is just the emulators and homebrew vs hacked vc games again

you know, bushing vs blaze?

but still i still think a .tik installer is not better its like direct stealing now instead of piracy
yes i know piracy is always piracy in whatever angle

with wads you only install 1 tik

what if the big N starts to check your system for .tik?

wat chu gonna say to them? "uhh..i downloaded every vc games even the ones on my friends japanese wii..."

 

[ZeD]

Good Point.
It would look strange, a WII full of .TIK from around the world