Why are JRPGs so Complex?

[Necron]

Most of them are not complex, they just require some time to understand some things, it just that people now are more used to shoot to everything that moves and just pressing X/A

 

[machomuu]

How so?

How people view how complex things are.

I may find things complex but others don't.

That's not what I meant -_-, I'm not that stupid

I meant "why?".

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant what I said first about it being opinion.

Well, it just seems more complex to me then to the more modern and old RPGS to me. Not saying that's bad, but that's how I feel.

It's just the way Ultima plays that makes it seem complex to me is all.

It does seem to present itself that way, I really need to play them sometime.

 

[Nujui]

How so?

How people view how complex things are.

I may find things complex but others don't.

That's not what I meant -_-, I'm not that stupid

I meant "why?".

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant what I said first about it being opinion.

Well, it just seems more complex to me then to the more modern and old RPGS to me. Not saying that's bad, but that's how I feel.

It's just the way Ultima plays that makes it seem complex to me is all.

It does seem to present itself that way, I really need to play them sometime.

I've looked at reviews of pretty much most of the Ultima series, video reviews. The guy explains the series pretty well. He even started his review of all the games with the first one that ever came out. And that game is what you call a Old RPG.

 

[machomuu]

How so?

How people view how complex things are.

I may find things complex but others don't.

That's not what I meant -_-, I'm not that stupid

I meant "why?".

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant what I said first about it being opinion.

Well, it just seems more complex to me then to the more modern and old RPGS to me. Not saying that's bad, but that's how I feel.

It's just the way Ultima plays that makes it seem complex to me is all.

It does seem to present itself that way, I really need to play them sometime.

I've looked at reviews of pretty much most of the Ultima series, video reviews. The guy explains the series pretty well. He even started his review of all games with the first one that ever came out. And that game is what you call a Old RPG.

Well I'm a retro gamer, so games like that are right up my alley. You wouldn't by any chance be talking about Spoony, would you?

 

[Nujui]

How so?

How people view how complex things are.

I may find things complex but others don't.

That's not what I meant -_-, I'm not that stupid

I meant "why?".

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant what I said first about it being opinion.

Well, it just seems more complex to me then to the more modern and old RPGS to me. Not saying that's bad, but that's how I feel.

It's just the way Ultima plays that makes it seem complex to me is all.

It does seem to present itself that way, I really need to play them sometime.

I've looked at reviews of pretty much most of the Ultima series, video reviews. The guy explains the series pretty well. He even started his review of all games with the first one that ever came out. And that game is what you call a Old RPG.

Well I'm a retro gamer, so games like that are right up my alley. You wouldn't by any chance be talking about Spoony, would you?

Yes I am in fact.

 

[machomuu]

How so?

How people view how complex things are.

I may find things complex but others don't.

That's not what I meant -_-, I'm not that stupid

I meant "why?".

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant what I said first about it being opinion.

Well, it just seems more complex to me then to the more modern and old RPGS to me. Not saying that's bad, but that's how I feel.

It's just the way Ultima plays that makes it seem complex to me is all.

It does seem to present itself that way, I really need to play them sometime.

I've looked at reviews of pretty much most of the Ultima series, video reviews. The guy explains the series pretty well. He even started his review of all games with the first one that ever came out. And that game is what you call a Old RPG.

Well I'm a retro gamer, so games like that are right up my alley. You wouldn't by any chance be talking about Spoony, would you?

Yes I am in fact.

That's actually how I really found out about the Ultima series, I watched all of the videos in his "Ultima Retrospective", the only reason I don't play the one Ultima game I have is because it requires me to create a virtual desktop which is a pain in the but to turn on and off.

 

[Hells Malice]

If someone wants an example of a complex jap game, play Armored Core.
Son of a bitch that's a hard game to get into. Not technically an RPG though.

I wouldn't say a game is complex based on stat/skill management and all that though. I did plenty of that in Ragnarok online, so it doesn't really phase me anymore.

I do find, as a whole, jRPGs are more complex then western RPGs. Only because most western RPGs focus more of combat-oriented gameplay.
Ultima is the only western game I could name that would be complex, and even then I didn't find it that bad after you get going.

 

[Rayder]

Heh, I rem playing the Ultima games on C64.....it sucked that if you died in that game, it would save that fact to the disk immediately. My friend and I got REAL good at pulling the disk before it saved that BS.

There's a lot of DS RPG's (ARPG/SRPG/JRPG, etc...call them what you will) I tried to get into, but then all those stats just seemed too daunting to want to concern myself with. I mean, take Golden Sun DS for example, you get/buy new armor or weapons and it's easy to see if it will benefit you or not. You see up or down arrows as you scroll through the characters, but many DS RPG's aren't that transparent. You don't get that "instant knowledge" as to whether such-and-such armor/weapon is a plus or minus to your stats without having to scour through your stat screens to determine that. I don't have the time (or the patience) to study all the character stats just to find out if some obscure piece of equipment is better or worse on some video game. Maybe back in my teens I would I would go through all that hassle, but at 43, I'm too busy and too old for that crap now. I've got other things on my mind besides spending hours in menu screens on some (quite frankly, pointless) game.

I guess that's the difference between a "hardcore" gamer and a "game-when-I-can-because-I've-got-grown-up-shit-to-do" veteran-gamer, eh? I've been forced to degenerate into a "casual gamer" out of responibility for my own ass.

Some RPG's are complex because "hardcore" gamers generally LOVE that level of complexity. The problem is, once you grow beyond the "hardcore gamer" mentality and become a "veteran gamer" (grow up) you don't have the time for (nor the inclination to bother with) that level of complexity anymore and need simpler games to occupy your spare time without requiring as much thought as you used to devote to them when you were younger and had less responsibilities. As an adult with real-life concerns, you will have more important things to deal with than filling your head up with useless video game information. Believe me, unless you were born with a silver-spoon up your ass, you too will have more important things to think about than video games when you grow up. Like where to live, what to eat and how to keep paying the bills. Mommy and Daddy won't be there for you forever. Eventually, you will have to figure that stuff out for yourself and video games will suddenly become MUCH less important to you. Character stats in some silly game will become meaningless drivel in the face of real-life. Believe me, it WILL happen to YOU.

 

[Gahars]

While I'm sure there are a good amount of exceptions, I imagine they're complex because that's their niche, and the audience for them expects a good deal of complexity.

Kind of like the Armored Core games; stupidly complex, but fans wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[The Composer]

Heh, I rem playing the Ultima games on C64.....it sucked that if you died in that game, it would save that fact to the disk immediately. My friend and I got REAL good at pulling the disk before it saved that BS.

There's a lot of DS RPG's (ARPG/SRPG/JRPG, etc...call them what you will) I tried to get into, but then all those stats just seemed too daunting to want to concern myself with. I mean, take Golden Sun DS for example, you get/buy new armor or weapons and it's easy to see if it will benefit you or not. You see up or down arrows as you scroll through the characters, but many DS RPG's aren't that transparent. You don't get that "instant knowledge" as to whether such-and-such armor/weapon is a plus or minus to your stats without having to scour through your stat screens to determine that. I don't have the time (or the patience) to study all the character stats just to find out if some obscure piece of equipment is better or worse on some video game. Maybe back in my teens I would I would go through all that hassle, but at 43, I'm too busy and too old for that crap now. I've got other things on my mind besides spending hours in menu screens on some (quite frankly, pointless) game.

I guess that's the difference between a "hardcore" gamer and a "game-when-I-can-because-I've-got-grown-up-shit-to-do" veteran-gamer, eh? I've been forced to degenerate into a "casual gamer" out of responibility for my own ass.

Some RPG's are complex because "hardcore" gamers generally LOVE that level of complexity. The problem is, once you grow beyond the "hardcore gamer" mentality and become a "veteran gamer" (grow up) you don't have the time for (nor the inclination to bother with) that level of complexity anymore and need simpler games to occupy your spare time without requiring as much thought as you used to devote to them when you were younger and had less responsibilities. As an adult with real-life concerns, you will have more important things to deal with than filling your head up with useless video game information. Believe me, unless you were born with a silver-spoon up your ass, you too will have more important things to think about than video games when you grow up. Like where to live, what to eat and how to keep paying the bills. Mommy and Daddy won't be there for you forever. Eventually, you will have to figure that stuff out for yourself and video games will suddenly become MUCH less important to you. Character stats in some silly game will become meaningless drivel in the face of real-life. Believe me, it WILL happen to YOU.

I get what you are saying, and you are probably right about it.

But if we look at your post, is a complete rant about your busy life.

I mean, how can you guys be so lazy enough not to compare between numbers. Looking and thinking on the stats screen won't take you more than 3 minutes of your life.

 

[clegion]

While I'm sure there are a good amount of exceptions, I imagine they're complex because that's their niche, and the audience for them expects a good deal of complexity.

Kind of like the Armored Core games; stupidly complex, but fans wouldn't have it any other way.

AC is complex? didn't think of it that way. Then again I don't exactly think that JRPG are in anyway complex or anything

 

[Hells Malice]

While I'm sure there are a good amount of exceptions, I imagine they're complex because that's their niche, and the audience for them expects a good deal of complexity.

Kind of like the Armored Core games; stupidly complex, but fans wouldn't have it any other way.

AC is complex? didn't think of it that way. Then again I don't exactly think that JRPG are in anyway complex or anything

You can play AC without getting too deep into it, but once you start actually paying attention to every detail of your AC, it's insanely complex. Most people just focus on firepower and mobility. Though if you were to ever verse a human with some comprehension of the game...your caveman quality AC would get trashed in seconds, lol.

 

[machomuu]

Heh, I rem playing the Ultima games on C64.....it sucked that if you died in that game, it would save that fact to the disk immediately. My friend and I got REAL good at pulling the disk before it saved that BS.

There's a lot of DS RPG's (ARPG/SRPG/JRPG, etc...call them what you will) I tried to get into, but then all those stats just seemed too daunting to want to concern myself with. I mean, take Golden Sun DS for example, you get/buy new armor or weapons and it's easy to see if it will benefit you or not. You see up or down arrows as you scroll through the characters, but many DS RPG's aren't that transparent. You don't get that "instant knowledge" as to whether such-and-such armor/weapon is a plus or minus to your stats without having to scour through your stat screens to determine that. I don't have the time (or the patience) to study all the character stats just to find out if some obscure piece of equipment is better or worse on some video game. Maybe back in my teens I would I would go through all that hassle, but at 43, I'm too busy and too old for that crap now. I've got other things on my mind besides spending hours in menu screens on some (quite frankly, pointless) game.

I guess that's the difference between a "hardcore" gamer and a "game-when-I-can-because-I've-got-grown-up-shit-to-do" veteran-gamer, eh? I've been forced to degenerate into a "casual gamer" out of responibility for my own ass.

Some RPG's are complex because "hardcore" gamers generally LOVE that level of complexity. The problem is, once you grow beyond the "hardcore gamer" mentality and become a "veteran gamer" (grow up) you don't have the time for (nor the inclination to bother with) that level of complexity anymore and need simpler games to occupy your spare time without requiring as much thought as you used to devote to them when you were younger and had less responsibilities. As an adult with real-life concerns, you will have more important things to deal with than filling your head up with useless video game information. Believe me, unless you were born with a silver-spoon up your ass, you too will have more important things to think about than video games when you grow up. Like where to live, what to eat and how to keep paying the bills. Mommy and Daddy won't be there for you forever. Eventually, you will have to figure that stuff out for yourself and video games will suddenly become MUCH less important to you. Character stats in some silly game will become meaningless drivel in the face of real-life. Believe me, it WILL happen to YOU.

I get what you are saying, and you are probably right about it.

But if we look at your post, is a complete rant about your busy life.

I mean, how can you guys be so lazy enough not to compare between numbers. Looking and thinking on the stats screen won't take you more than 3 minutes of your life.

Actually he never once said anything about his busy life except for the fact that it's busy, the rest of the post was pretty general.

 

[retKHAAAN]

I still prefer the first NES Dragon Warrior over 95% of the JRPGs from the past 20 years...

1. Grind
2. Buy new equipment
3. Grind
4. Learn a new spell
5. Grind
6. Fight a Green Dragon
7. Grind....you get the point

Stories are neat and all, but when it takes 70 hours to get through the story I find myself needing a break and temporarily switching to another game. When I come back I like remembering exactly whats going on and how everything works. With too much going on it's easy to get bored during the return play, having to relearn the game and remember where you are in the story.

 

[Okami Wolfen]

Final Fantasy- Retrieve the "4" crystals and gather them in one place to be taken by the baddies, which summons the end of the world and fight the
baddies and win, and realize that the "4" crystals were not needed for the safety of the planet.

I think this covers FF 1-5

I dunno about the later FFs but- revolt against the current government

That's not what FF4 is about, AKAIK not 5 either, just the NES ones.

Not II either.

IV, sure. V the crystals get destroyed. And then there's that whole parallel world thing.

But WRPG's are much more complex. Try playing Knights of the Old Republic or Morrowind.

 

[Ace Overclocked]

im trying real hard to not sound like a troll, but wasnt FF4 about getting the crystals to save Rosa from Golbez. and in turn allowed them to go to the "place" of the final battle??

well you realise that the crystals weren't needed for world's safety in ff4 the after years

 

[machomuu]

Final Fantasy- Retrieve the "4" crystals and gather them in one place to be taken by the baddies, which summons the end of the world and fight the
baddies and win, and realize that the "4" crystals were not needed for the safety of the planet.

I think this covers FF 1-5

I dunno about the later FFs but- revolt against the current government

That's not what FF4 is about, AKAIK not 5 either, just the NES ones.

Not II either.

IV, sure. V the crystals get destroyed. And then there's that whole parallel world thing.

But WRPG's are much more complex. Try playing Knights of the Old Republic or Morrowind.

How is Morrowind complex? That's a rather simple game, so is Oblivion, they're just extensive. Of course, it's all opinion, but personally, I wouldn't put it that way.

 

[emigre]

JRPs are complex in a poor attempt to prevent the player discovering how mediocre and shallow the gameplay is, as JRPs are terribly rote and repetitive (Grind, Boss, travel to town, buy new shit ad infitium)

 

[machomuu]

JRPs are complex in a poor attempt to prevent the player discovering how mediocre and shallow the gameplay is, as JRPs are terribly rote and repetitive (Grind, Boss, travel to town, buy new shit ad infitium)

Like what games JRPGs do you consider complex

 

[Hells Malice]

JRPs are complex in a poor attempt to prevent the player discovering how mediocre and shallow the gameplay is, as JRPs are terribly rote and repetitive (Grind, Boss, travel to town, buy new shit ad infitium)

I can never tell if you're brogamer trolling or being serious, because you're either an idiot or never being serious.

Either way is annoying.