Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[Rydian]

FWIW, so far two of the retail games that I've ripped with CleanRip (XGIII, Rogue Leader) will not authorize due to Devolution's AP. Both discs are in good condition and the hashes check out. Just out of curiosity, I deleted and reinstalled Devolution and could not re-authorize a third game which had worked previously. I'd say that this represents a significant problem....

I'd say report it as a bug to the author and let them fix it?

'Cause I mean, that's what I would do. Seems pretty logical to me.

I mean if there's a problem, take steps towards fixing it. Logic, right?

 

[tmv_josue]

FWIW, so far two of the retail games that I've ripped with CleanRip (XGIII, Rogue Leader) will not authorize due to Devolution's AP. Both discs are in good condition and the hashes check out. Just out of curiosity, I deleted and reinstalled Devolution and could not re-authorize a third game which had worked previously. I'd say that this represents a significant problem....

I'd say report it as a bug to the author and let them fix it?

'Cause I mean, that's what I would do. Seems pretty logical to me.

I mean if there's a problem, take steps towards fixing it. Logic, right?

Well for now this is expected, most likely in a future release will be fixed... man, it only have a few days.
And some it works pretty well.

 

[retKHAAAN]

I'm tired of people trying to grasp for straws to try to make their points. Mine have actual MERIT and COMMON SENSE. But, this generation doesn't have any common sense, so go figure....

this generation? you realize that more than half the people who have tueidj's back on this are older than you, including myself, right?

As far as your having "common sense"...putting your birth year in your username is one of those stupid things people do prior to complaining that their identity has been pilfered.



@[member='Midna']
All of the "statements" I wrote are based on misconceptions or presumptions, are they not?

 

[Lumstar]

Errors in the AP implementation are just that. Whether a programming or compatibility issue, they're nothing more than facts. The moral/legal aspect of piracy is a different matter.

 

[Actinopterygian Melospiza]

Lets look at the pros and cons of devolution's AP:

Pros:
-Devolution can't be used for piracy. This is hardly even a pro seeing as there are plenty of other ways for pirates to get their GC fix (modchips, wode, DM/DML, Dolphin, etc.) and considering the possibility that someone will crack the AP. So basically piracy is not being prevented in any way, or even really hindered

-That's the only one I can think of; feel free to tell me any more pros and I will add them

Cons:
-Those with scratched/unreadable discs are excluded

-Those with broken disc drives are excluded

-Those with new Wii's will be excluded(assuming tueidj implements the use of classic controllers in the future like he claims)

-You have to use 1:1 rips. This means using 1.4GB for every game instead of being able to reduce the space taken up by each game

-1:1 rips also means you can't use modified games

-New GC games aren't sold any more. So your money won't go to the developers/Nintendo, it just goes to GameStop(or whoever you buy a used game from) meaning you're most likely getting ripped off, especially on rarer games that might be more expensive now then they were new

-Those who want to play other region games have to spend even more money to import, and they would still be buying them used

-Probably a few other things mentioned already that I can't think of at the moment


I'm not trying to flame tueidj, but anyone capable of critical thinking should be able to see that the cons of AP greatly outweigh the pros.

I know that all of what I have said is probably pointless because tueidj has convinced me through his refusal to even open his mind to the idea of not including AP that his reason to include AP was not reached by any critical thinking done on his part, but that he is simply a "believer" of AP. And as Carl Sagan once said: "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe."

 

[C-Kronos]

He developed it, so he can pretty much do anything he wants with it.. Personally, I do not agree with his implementation of AP as it does have quite a few more cons than pros. The main thing that annoys me about it is having to keep all the dummy data from a backup, so games are going to take up more space than what's actually needed.

Does anyone know if he's going to open-source his application at some point, or is he going to keep it closed source to prevent people from removing the AP? Personally, a homebrew developer that keeps something closed source is a bit of a jerk in my book, as there would be some information in the source to learn from.

Oh well, I'm probably not going to bother with his application or the alternative, since I have a modified cube anyways. Sure, loading from a USB HDD would be quite nice if the compatibility was 100%, but at the moment it's not worth loading from a HDD when I'm going to be hassled by inconvenient "features" or bugs.

Note: If anyone is going to reply to my post directly, please quote it so I'll actually notice it. I'm not going to bother reading through several pages just to see if I have a reply from someone.

 

[AngryGreek766]

author can do whatever he wants with his app.. its just sad no one will use it cuz of the AP.. simple as that

 

[tmv_josue]

author can do whatever he wants with his app.. its just sad no one will use it cuz of the AP.. simple as that

I'm using it right now and many more people.

Does anyone know if he's going to open-source his application at some point, or is he going to keep it closed source to prevent people from removing the AP? Personally, a homebrew developer that keeps something closed source is a bit of a jerk in my book, as there would be some information in the source to learn from.

He will not release it, but he said when have time will document/ comment it for others, to learn as he has achieved.

 

[wiismodrome]

'd say report it as a bug to the author and let them fix it?

'Cause I mean, that's what I would do. Seems pretty logical to me.

I mean if there's a problem, take steps towards fixing it. Logic, right?

I have reported the problems verifying both games in the official thread.

This was his response: http://gbatemp.net/topic/330554-devolution-public-release/page__view__findpost__p__4306304

Personally, I find it a little odd. If I wrote a program that was not working as intended, I would want to figure out what was going wrong and fix it.

 

[wiismodrome]

The reason why I mentioned the fact that Devolution's AP was not allowing genuine discs to load was to make a point regarding the justification for AP. One of the most egregious side-effects of AP measures is stopping legitimate users from running their legally-owned software. Devolution's AP is not stopping me from loading a copy (I can do that with DIOS MIOS or other methods); it is stopping original discs from loading.

 

[AngryGreek766]

The reason why I mentioned the fact that Devolution's AP was not allowing genuine discs to load was to make a point regarding the justification for AP. One of the most egregious side-effects of AP measures is stopping legitimate users from running their legally-owned software. Devolution's AP is not stopping me from loading a copy (I can do that with DIOS MIOS or other methods); it is stopping original discs from loading.

100% correct. you sir are a genious

 

[JohnnyBlaze1986]

If he wants to be a prick and not release the source(which in that case, he should've just kept it to himself), then someone should reverse engineer it and crack it. That'll teach him a lesson. You don't want fix the problems or remove AP? Someone else WILL!

 

[mightymuffy]

Personally speaking, my Wii already runs the games I own from disc no problems, so why should I even bother wasting 1.35Gb of HD space per game running this, let alone the time required to set the thing up (admittedly this is small, but still, as there's no benefit...)

The whole AP thing... well assuming the author comes good on his original promise of Classic Controller support I don't care!

One pet hate of mine has always been Panel De Pon off Nintendo Puzzle Collection handicapped by the godawful dpad on the Gamecube controller... if a future release solves my problem he's got my eternal gratitude, AP or not (I have the disc after all)..... let me have the game on the HD compressed down to around 100Mb like it is using Dios Mios and I may just whack one out in his name lol..... but as it stands I see no use in this program whatsoever at the moment - sorry mr author!! - and despite what I've said, the inclusion of AP definitely has me baffled.... (don't bother quoting with the pros & cons btw ladies, I know the drill!)

I'm no Wii program author, but the stuff I've made and distributed (PC dance sim Stepmania related) was also perhaps legally dubious, but the last thing I'd have done was release them with some AP that prevented over half of the potential downloaders to try it out - surely you want to show off to everyone??

 

[wiismodrome]

... the inclusion of AP definitely has me baffled.... (don't bother quoting with the pros & cons btw ladies, I know the drill!)

I'm no Wii program author, but the stuff I've made and distributed (PC dance sim Stepmania related) was also perhaps legally dubious, but the last thing I'd have done was release them with some AP that prevented over half of the potential downloaders to try it out - surely you want to show off to everyone??

I'm thinking that perhaps the AP itself is a way of showing off.... something that even the mighty Nintendo failed to accomplish.

 

[tmv_josue]

The reason why I mentioned the fact that Devolution's AP was not allowing genuine discs to load was to make a point regarding the justification for AP. One of the most egregious side-effects of AP measures is stopping legitimate users from running their legally-owned software. Devolution's AP is not stopping me from loading a copy (I can do that with DIOS MIOS or other methods); it is stopping original discs from loading.

100% correct. you sir are a genious

My (and for many more people) original discs work flawlessly.
And he is not trying to stopping anyone to loading a copy, he simply don't foment the piracy in his app, just that.

If he wants to be a prick and not release the source(which in that case, he should've just kept it to himself), then someone should reverse engineer it and crack it. That'll teach him a lesson. You don't want fix the problems or remove AP? Someone else WILL!

A lesson... lmfao.
Why not just respect his decision? If any day is cracked or reversed to allow piracy, good, he did what he could to avoid it.

 

[lovewiibrew]

Has anyone with an older wii tried using a burned backup to verify? (Without a modchip)

Yea, tried with an Eternal Darkness backup.
Even ripped with CleanRip 1.0.5, but the verification didn't work.

Thanks for your reply

 

[Felipe_9595]

author can do whatever he wants with his app.. its just sad no one will use it cuz of the AP.. simple as that

I'm using it right now and many more people.

Does anyone know if he's going to open-source his application at some point, or is he going to keep it closed source to prevent people from removing the AP? Personally, a homebrew developer that keeps something closed source is a bit of a jerk in my book, as there would be some information in the source to learn from.

He will not release it, but he said when have time will document/ comment it for others, to learn as he has achieved.

Looking at the Devo thread, seems like there are more people not using it than using it

 

[air2004]

What is the point of creating this project , how is it better than dios-mios ? ( now if it supported the wii motes then that would be something )

 

[AngryGreek766]

What is the point of creating this project , how is it better than dios-mios ? ( now if it supported the wii motes then that would be something )

it will support wiimotes and it does audio streaming... but in my opinion the cons outweigh the pros

 

[gtmtnbiker]

I'm thinking that perhaps the AP itself is a way of showing off.... something that even the mighty Nintendo failed to accomplish.

The program has only been out for a few days. It's too early to tell if it's uncrackable or not. The Gamecube was release in late 2001 and the PSO hack came out in early 2003. So it took a little less than 1.5 years before people found a way around the AP.