Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[Jacobeian]

The hate in which this thread is turning is quite hilarious, some of you really sound like spoiled kids seeing "adults" moral decisions as unfair punitions lol

Some day you will eventually realize not everyone is thinking the same way as you and that homebrew devs don't owe you anything, bitching about unfair or bad decisions will lead to nothing but more frustration. You better use this time to learn how that thing works and how you could do something better ... or try to defeat that AP mechanism by studying it. Sure it takes time but even tuedj did not started as a programming genious...

 

[Hielkenator]

The hate in which this thread is turning is quite hilarious, some of you really sound like spoiled kids seeing "adults" moral decisions as unfair punitions lol

Some day you will eventually realize not everyone is thinking the same way as you and that homebrew devs don't owe you anything, bitching about unfair or bad decisions will lead to nothing but more frustration. You better use this time to learn how that thing works and how you could do something better ... or try to defeat that AP mechanism by studying it. Sure it takes time but even tuedj did not started as a programming genious...

Agreed, but it's easy. Loading the legitimate way of gamecube games as nintendo intendid it= no piracy.
loading the devolution way, copying the same game on hdd's for multiple wii's = piracy.
Making this possible by providing his apps is contributing to piracy in a B I G way, imho.


This AP is bullshit, as this is a valid tool to aid in the piracy scene.

 

[the_randomizer]

easy fix, add expiration date on dvv files.

Don't give him any ideas.

 

[Jacobeian]

@hielkienator: I still think that debating about legality when it's all bound to someone personal choice is a waste of time. It's not as if he will suddenly see the light or say "oh my god, you are right off course, what was i thinking, i need to remove that stupid AP ASAP". This time would be better used working on making the ultimate gc warez loader.

 

[JoostinOnline]

The hate in which this thread is turning is quite hilarious, some of you really sound like spoiled kids seeing "adults" moral decisions as unfair punitions lol

Some day you will eventually realize not everyone is thinking the same way as you and that homebrew devs don't owe you anything, bitching about unfair or bad decisions will lead to nothing but more frustration. You better use this time to learn how that thing works and how you could do something better ... or try to defeat that AP mechanism by studying it. Sure it takes time but even tuedj did not started as a programming genious...

Agreed, but it's easy. Loading the legitimate way of gamecube games as nintendo intendid it= no piracy.
loading the devolution way, copying the same game on hdd's for multiple wii's = piracy.
Making this possible by providing his apps is contributing to piracy in a B I G way, imho.


This AP is bullshit, as this is a valid tool to aid in the piracy scene.

So what you are saying is you want him to make it even easier for you to break the law?

 

[nokillmonkeys]

So what you are saying is you want him to make it even easier for you to break the law?

tueidj, especially being someone with profound logic skills, shouldn't even feel as if his tools are used to "break the law"; he shouldn't feel responsible for the actions of his tool's users. Car manufacturers create vehicles that can be used for transportation, but there's nothing stopping somebody from using a vehicle to mow down pedestrians, but you don't see a ceasing of car production; that would cut off the people who use cars for legitimate purposes. The creators of products cannot be held accountable for what is done with their products; the same can be said of services, like file storage. If tueidj feels this way (and indeed, he does), then perhaps he has an inflated sense of self-importance. In the future (and even the present) nobody is going to say "fuck that tueidj guy, he made it easy for people to pirate games".

And this is slightly less related, but I don't think the whole "life + 65 years of copyright" is going to last; it's a law that harms the public good, and when the baby boomer generation is out of power, IP law is going to change drastically (for the better).

 

[Hielkenator]

The hate in which this thread is turning is quite hilarious, some of you really sound like spoiled kids seeing "adults" moral decisions as unfair punitions lol

Some day you will eventually realize not everyone is thinking the same way as you and that homebrew devs don't owe you anything, bitching about unfair or bad decisions will lead to nothing but more frustration. You better use this time to learn how that thing works and how you could do something better ... or try to defeat that AP mechanism by studying it. Sure it takes time but even tuedj did not started as a programming genious...

Agreed, but it's easy. Loading the legitimate way of gamecube games as nintendo intendid it= no piracy.
loading the devolution way, copying the same game on hdd's for multiple wii's = piracy.
Making this possible by providing his apps is contributing to piracy in a B I G way, imho.


This AP is bullshit, as this is a valid tool to aid in the piracy scene.

So what you are saying is you want him to make it even easier for you to break the law?

Oh no I'd never break any law.
I'm just saying his AP is more annoying than it is effective.
It's about HIM being in control of the users, nintendo, pirates.

And still he provided a tool for pirates to pirate.
Where's his morality at?

It has nothing to do to protect the IP's that nintendo owns.
It's about owning Devolution.
Wich is fair to be honest.

It's like giving heroine for free but telling the addicts it's bad to use it.
and if they use and die, he's not responsible?
Whitout him this would not be possible, it's not rocket science.

 

[SifJar]

Car manufacturers create vehicles that can be used for transportation, but there's nothing stopping somebody from using a vehicle to mow down pedestrians, but you don't see a ceasing of car production; that would cut off the people who use cars for legitimate purposes.

If there was some way to prevent cars being used for that, while still allowing cars to be used, I am fairly confident that such a mechanism would be implemented. In this case, there IS a method for preventing use of Devolution for what the author doesn't want (i.e. piracy), and that method is AP, and so it is implemented.

 

[PatrickD85]

Ok kinda promised I would not go there but here are my 2 cents:

Once again I don't seem to understand the big fuss about the AP.

As mentioned before in the release thread ... I have used 0 original discs to verify.
For those thinking what did you do ... I am not going to repeat my previous statements.

One final word about the AP from me:
Deal with it. It's his product, his rules apply to his product, which is no more then a fair right he as a developer has.
Don't like that ... well .. tough luck the world does not always do things the way you want them.

The main thing to note:

- Devolution delivers on audio streaming. Verfied with certain 20 games. So hell yeah a great achievement
- Devolution lets you go back from game to HBC which I find superb
- Devolution delivers on doing a verify AP check which is needed once per game you want to use with Devolution. Which I still find admirable as copyright does not end once a console or games are hard to get hands on (we still have stores selling GC consoles and games ... you just need to look around a bit)

I am thankfull for the nice additional features it offers over Dios Mios.
For reference I only use Devolution for games with audio streaming or multiple discs as Dios Mios can not handle them yet.

And if you want to argue/flame whatever about this comment ... go ahead ... just dont expect a response as I dont see a point replying to this thread any further.

 

[the_randomizer]

There are no laws in the US that disallow making backups of DVDs, games, etc so long as they are used for personal use only. It's very limited, but legal nonetheless. I see nothing immoral about having backups for the games one legally possesses.

 

[Ace Overclocked]

Guess i'll have to borrow back the games i gave to my friends when my GC passed away.

 

[Hielkenator]

Car manufacturers create vehicles that can be used for transportation, but there's nothing stopping somebody from using a vehicle to mow down pedestrians, but you don't see a ceasing of car production; that would cut off the people who use cars for legitimate purposes.

If there was some way to prevent cars being used for that, while still allowing cars to be used, I am fairly confident that such a mechanism would be implemented. In this case, there IS a method for preventing use of Devolution for what the author doesn't want (i.e. piracy), and that method is AP, and so it is implemented.

His AP is a joke. Anybody can "lend" a game from a friend. He only thought of Internet piracy.
For people interested in Gamecube, this will not be hard.
And to be honest, how many great gamecube games are there anyway? Defeats the purpose somewhat in my opinion.

For people with older wii's it's probably easy to verify their burned backups, anyway.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Forgive me, I've been out of the Wii sections for quite a while now and am having trouble seeing the issue here...

It seems to me that this app falls under "If you don't like it, don't use it"...though that one seems to have changed to the "BAHHH!!! Someone created an app that I don't like, and rather than use the alternative, I'm going to bitch about it!"...

Kudos to tuesies for doing what he believes is right.

 

[SifJar]

His AP is a joke. Anybody can "lend" a game from a friend. He only thought of Internet piracy.
For people interested in Gamecube, this will not be hard.
And to be honest, how many great gamecube games are there anyway? Defeats the purpose somewhat in my opinion.

For people with older wii's it's probably easy to verify their burned backups, anyway.

At a guess, I would say 95% of GC piracy right now is internet based. Maybe a few people will borrow games off friends and verify them. He could have had the verification expire, which would have worked around that more, but it would be a pain for everyone else. He probably wanted to make it as unobtrusive as possible. Anyway, your point (which you are seeming to make rather incessantly) is stupid (sorry, but it is). Let's say there are two crimes being committed in my local area. Crime A and Crime B. Crime A I can stop, Crime B I can't. Is the fact I can't stop Crime B any reason not to stop Crime A, which I can stop? Nope. Even though I can't stop Crime B, that won't stop me from preventing Crime A to the best of my ability. You seem to think that jut because he isn't stopping disc lending based piracy, he shouldn't bother stopping internet based piracy. What a load of nonsense. Please stop reposting that exact same thing now.

 

[Hielkenator]

Forgive me, I've been out of the Wii sections for quite a while now and am having trouble seeing the issue here...

It seems to me that this app falls under "If you don't like it, don't use it"...though that one seems to have changed to the "BAHHH!!! Someone created an app that I don't like, and rather than use the alternative, I'm going to bitch about it!"...

Kudos to tuesies for doing what he believes is right.

It's more about morality and hypocrisy to be honest.
But I like your post.
let your concience speak on this one.

 

[Hielkenator]

His AP is a joke. Anybody can "lend" a game from a friend. He only thought of Internet piracy.
For people interested in Gamecube, this will not be hard.
And to be honest, how many great gamecube games are there anyway? Defeats the purpose somewhat in my opinion.

For people with older wii's it's probably easy to verify their burned backups, anyway.

At a guess, I would say 95% of GC piracy right now is internet based. Maybe a few people will borrow games off friends and verify them. He could have had the verification expire, which would have worked around that more, but it would be a pain for everyone else. He probably wanted to make it as unobtrusive as possible. Anyway, your point (which you are seeming to make rather incessantly) is stupid (sorry, but it is). Let's say there are two crimes being committed in my local area. Crime A and Crime B. Crime A I can stop, Crime B I can't. Is the fact I can't stop Crime B any reason not to stop Crime A, which I can stop? Nope. Even though I can't stop Crime B, that won't stop me from preventing Crime A to the best of my ability. You seem to think that jut because he isn't stopping disc lending based piracy, he shouldn't bother stopping internet based piracy. What a load of nonsense. Please stop reposting that exact same thing now.

I'm not talking about myself but in piracy in general.
If he'd care so much for it, he should'nt have released devolution to the public.
Instead he should have invested time in preventing piracy, he can't do both.

Pirate's have a new way now and he provided it.
And it's easier than ever. Even for people that can't read backup discs.

To place it in your "crime" context:

If I would set two buildings on fire, building A and building B.
Building A I can stop, B I can't, What's the reason to stop any of them?

No the best thing should be NOT to start a fire in the first place.

 

[Jacobeian]

C'mon, he did not released this as a personal crusade against piracy, otherwise as you figured yourself he wouldn't have release anything at all, would be simpler that way.

He simply added AP to make his application not valuable to pirate because he does not want to support (as in making easier) piracy, why is it so hard to understand this is different from directly fighting against piracy, for which he obviously does not give a fuck ?

 

[Hielkenator]

C'mon, he did not released this as a personal crusade against piracy, otherwise as you figured yourself he wouldn't have release anything at all, would be simpler that way.

He simply added AP to make his application not valuable to pirate because he does not want to support (as in making easier) piracy, why is it so hard to understand this is different from directly fighting against piracy, for which he obviously does not give a fuck ?

Well he made it easier by providing cleanrip 1.5 and devolution did'nt he?
But I agree it's a great achievement.

 

[Nujui]

Car manufacturers create vehicles that can be used for transportation, but there's nothing stopping somebody from using a vehicle to mow down pedestrians, but you don't see a ceasing of car production; that would cut off the people who use cars for legitimate purposes.

If there was some way to prevent cars being used for that, while still allowing cars to be used, I am fairly confident that such a mechanism would be implemented. In this case, there IS a method for preventing use of Devolution for what the author doesn't want (i.e. piracy), and that method is AP, and so it is implemented.

His AP is a joke. Anybody can "lend" a game from a friend. He only thought of Internet piracy.
For people interested in Gamecube, this will not be hard.
And to be honest, how many great gamecube games are there anyway? Defeats the purpose somewhat in my opinion.

For people with older wii's it's probably easy to verify their burned backups, anyway.

You know that people can do the same thing with the other GC backup loaders, rent a game, back it up and then send it back, right....?

 

[Jacobeian]

1. he wanted to develop this kind of app because this is fun, challenging, whatever
2. he does not want to support the same crap as other backup loaders
3. he had to find a compromise between mass piracy and usability => AP that requires you to insert original disc only once

It's really not hard to understand once you accept the fact that everything is about compromises and that different people can have different logical way of thinking and goals than what you assume they have.
At the end, it's his choice and telling him his logic is flawed is basically insulting his intelligence because he obviously knows that his solution won't make piracy disappear.