Hacking Whats going on?

[dhjohn]

Golin, it must be nice to live in your little world.

Where is this contract I assume you have where the m3 team agreed to give you weekly firmware updates for the monthly fee you pay?

The receipt is a contract between consumer and producer. First year Business/Economics stuff, not too hard to understand.

By the way, if you look at the flag next to my member number, it's obvious that I'm from the United States of America... We live in the same "world."

If I may give a real life counter to your assertion that companies have to provide updates.
In this example, my laptop will represent a flashcart, and Windows 7 will represent Pokemon HG/SS (or any other new game).

I own an hp laptop. I recently installed Windows 7 on it. I then discovered my wireless did not work. I went to hp's website, and looked up the laptop. I went to the driver downloads, and found none for Windows 7. Hp did not make Windows 7 compatible drivers. Did I well out "You broke contract by not supporting this new operating system!!"? No, because HP never said they would. There was no contract between me and HP that they would support it.

There. Real life example of a company not having to give support for a new product just cause I bought something from them.

Mind you, this is not to say companies should not maintain products after sell. It is just good business practice to do so, but that does not mean they are obligated to.

 

[Golin]

If I may give a real life counter to your assertion that companies have to provide updates.
In this example, my laptop will represent a flashcart, and Windows 7 will represent Pokemon HG/SS (or any other new game).

I own an hp laptop. I recently installed Windows 7 on it. I then discovered my wireless did not work. I went to hp's website, and looked up the laptop. I went to the driver downloads, and found none for Windows 7. Hp did not make Windows 7 compatible drivers. Did I well out "You broke contract by not supporting this new operating system!!"? No, because HP never said they would. There was no contract between me and HP that they would support it.

There. Real life example of a company not having to give support for a new product just cause I bought something from them.

Mind you, this is not to say companies should not maintain products after sell. It is just good business practice to do so, but that does not mean they are obligated to.

Bravo, but your argument is flawed.

If you go to HP's website, there should be a driver for Windows 7 unless they've officially dropped support for your legacy hardware. Or they will refer you to the manufacture website of the WIFI card (if it is available) or Windows Updates. So you just proved my point, unless the M3 Team has officially dropped support for the M3 DS Real, the G6 DS Real, and the M3i Zero, then consumers have a right to expect updates and such.

Now if you got a recent PC from HP and it didn't support Windows 7... they'd be in trouble big time and start losing customers in the process--thanks partially to the Invisible Hand, supply and demand, substitutions, and consumer expectations.

 

[DeltaBurnt]

Dude, this whole "I bought something so I'm entitled to MORE than what I already payed for" is just plain bull shit.

I don't care if you say it's the "basics" of economics class. There's only so far you can take this shit until people say "Who the fuck cares?".

Because even if it is the basics of economics, I'm almost positive there is no government law or even moral law that says "You need to update your software in a timely manner, and if you don't update in a 1 week (no matter what other stuff you're working on) you need to get that out there or we'll let these bitches whine to you a lot (and then we'll sue you for 50 bajillion dollars)".

Also, I'd take into account that the M3 Team has 5 different firmwares to update (and they do keep them up to date along with touchpod and sakura). Not only that, but they have the bugs to fix in the beta release of Kaura. (and some of them are quite big)

So please, stop with this long argument that's just

"Example"

"Full of holes, we're still entitled"

It's getting nowhere.

 

[jurassicplayer]

Bravo, but your argument is flawed.

If you go to HP's website, there should be a driver for Windows 7 unless they've officially dropped support for your legacy hardware. Or they will refer you to the manufacture website of the WIFI card (if it is available) or Windows Updates. So you just proved my point, unless the M3 Team has officially dropped support for the M3 DS Real, the G6 DS Real, and the M3i Zero, then consumers have a right to expect updates and such.

Now if you got a recent PC from HP and it didn't support Windows 7... they'd be in trouble big time and start losing customers in the process--thanks partially to the Invisible Hand, supply and demand, substitutions, and consumer expectations.
(can't resist this xD)
Bravo, but your argument is flawed.

Consumers do have the right to expect updates and such, since the M3 team is supporting the Touchpod, iTouchDS, R4iRTS, M3Sakura, and Kaura, but if you take a look at their website, more specifically at the "Terms of Use", you will find this:

The content and other information appearing on the website are provided on “AS IS” basis. The Company makes no representation and warranty, either express or implied, as to the accuracy, usefulness, or certainty of any of the content or other information appearing on the website. The Company assumes no responsibility for any harm or loss to you that may arise through the use of content or other information appearing on the website.

CODESending any suggestions, ideas, etc. to the Company via the Web, e-mail, or postal mail in spite of 5-1. and 5-2. above, you will agree the conditions listed below.
The Company assumes no obligation to maintain confidentiality regarding the suggestions, ideas, etc., submitted.
The Company assumes no obligation to study, evaluate, or utilize the suggestions, ideas, etc., submitted.
The Company assumes no responsibility to compensate in any way the submitter or any third party even in the event that a product or service similar in whole or in part to the suggestions, ideas, etc., submitted is announced or released by the Company.
The Company may freely use at its discretion the suggestions, ideas, etc., submitted. In addition, the submitter may not exercise copyright or any other rights regarding the suggestions, ideas, etc., submitted.

Now to tie this into my argument, in the first set above, there is the notice of "provided on 'AS IS' basis", which means that the stuff on there is all you will get and it is totally up to them to decide what to put up and what to leave out. So this argues the point that they don't have to post anything up on the website. Obviously one can argue that "its only the website, nobody gives a shit about their website, we just need the update!" This is where the second set comes in, particularly in the line "The Company assumes no obligation to study, evaluate, or utilize the suggestions, ideas, etc., submitted."

Now consider what you are telling the M3 team for a second, because it may take some people a bit of time to understand this. You are suggesting to the M3 team that they hurry up and make the dam patch because you paid for a piece of hardware that you can stick in a DS and it does things. To make it easier, lets just discard the idea of having said demand as a suggestion and focus instead on the perfect wrap-up, the ever-faithful "etc." In other words, "The Company assumes no obligation to study, evaluate, or utilize the suggestions, ideas, etc. [demands], submitted." So as a final statement, the Company assumes no obligation to listen to any kind of shit that they don't like, and you are at their mercy if you want them to fix anything.

(and thus concludes my argument, hopefully this can end the idiocy)

 

[Golin]

Dude, this whole "I bought something so I'm entitled to MORE than what I already payed for" is just plain bull shit.I'm not sure why you're getting so upset. I'm just saying that the consumer is entitled to support for a product that has not been abandoned. I don't think I've said anywhere that I'm upset about it. I already have other games to play when I'm not out or doing something more productive. I said in the beginning that I understand why others would be upset and they have a right to be upset... although--again--I'm not sure why you're upset about this at all.

@Goblin- Shut up already. You don't pay them to code. You merely paid them to give you a flashcard. Nothing more. You aren't entitled to anything after that. The M3 team doesn't HAVE to make a patch so you rabid, moronic pokefags stop pooing your pants every day. A reciept doesn't mean something is automatically guaranteed to work on something. A reciept is so that, if it doesn't not work at all or very, very limitedly, you can get your money back. Stop being a whiny, impatient little brat.

And since we know it'll come, give them damn time. It takes time and effort to make patches to bypass anti-piracy. You don't pay them jacksquat for them to make it. Now calm your ass down, and stop whining. You'll get it when it comes.The name reads G-O-L-I-N, no B. I'm sure it was an honest mistake.

Now, you're right; I do not pay them to code. But I (and their customers) do pay for their products which do pay them to code. Just like I (and many Microsoft costumers) do not pay Microsoft programmers to code. Yet, we (Microsoft customers) expect to have the latest updates, security flaws plugged, and latest enhancement (so as long as the hardware and basic architecture can handle it). Again, I'm not the one getting upset by this and I'm not sure why you are.

QUOTE(jurassicplayer @ Mar 23 2010, 09:37 PM)

Now to tie this into my argument, in the first set above, there is the notice of "provided on 'AS IS' basis", which means that the stuff on there is all you will get and it is totally up to them to decide what to put up and what to leave out. So this argues the point that they don't have to post anything up on the website. Obviously one can argue that "its only the website, nobody gives a shit about their website, we just need the update!" This is where the second set comes in, particularly in the line "The Company assumes no obligation to study, evaluate, or utilize the suggestions, ideas, etc., submitted."

Now consider what you are telling the M3 team for a second, because it may take some people a bit of time to understand this. You are suggesting to the M3 team that they hurry up and make the dam patch because you paid for a piece of hardware that you can stick in a DS and it does things. To make it easier, lets just discard the idea of having said demand as a suggestion and focus instead on the perfect wrap-up, the ever-faithful "etc." In other words, "The Company assumes no obligation to study, evaluate, or utilize the suggestions, ideas, etc. [demands], submitted." So as a final statement, the Company assumes no obligation to listen to any kind of shit that they don't like, and you are at their mercy if you want them to fix anything.

(and thus concludes my argument, hopefully this can end the idiocy)

The "as is" clause is a basic clause that says if the hardware does not conform to what you expect it to be, you're SOL (as with "as is" sales over eBay and such). This holds true because they cannot guarantee that their latest firmware will not bug out and destroy the card. That has nothing to do with customer expectations. As is doesn't mean they can pick and choose what to leave it, it just means they can't be held responsible for anything that they had not expected.

I did not tell the M3 Team to hurry up or anything. Other people told them to hurry up, I'm merely saying their (M3's) customers have the right to complain about it. It's their right as the consumers to have expectations from the producers or they'll migrate to a substitute product--again, first year Economics. And yes, if the M3 Team abandoned and no longer supports their products, that is their right--I never said it wasn't--but it will only hurt their business goals (if their goal was to make money--and it is).

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

Golin, Goblin, Golini, whatever. And your argument is horribly flawed for the reason that a flashcard is extremely different then a computer. For one thing, they aren't considered illegal by most.

Microsoft makes the patches both because it can, and because it has to. That's part of it's business. Team M3, Acekard, AKAIO, Cyclo, all of them are not "businesses" in the sense that their employees get paid. Microsoft HAS to make them, because of the amount of people using it. That alone marks a major difference.

Then you have to add in the amount of sensitive information going through the internet, and computers, every, single second. Nothing like that happens on a flashcard. ...Usually. I won't say never. If they DIDN'T make the patches, they'd be up to their ears in sewage. Plus the government probably pays them a bit to fix them anyway.

Then there's the fact that flashcards are hardware. Minus the Zune(HD) and 360, Microsoft doesn't manufacture hardware for computers. Just software. Widely, widely, widely used software.

You can't really sue the flashcard teams for anything. Even a bricked system. They come with disclaimers that they can't be held responsible for it. I assume that also carries over to a few games not working. They don't have to make one.

 

[jurassicplayer]

The "as is" clause is a basic clause that says if the hardware does not conform to what you expect it to be, you're SOL (as with "as is" sales over eBay and such). This holds true because they cannot guarantee that their latest firmware will not bug out and destroy the card. That has nothing to do with customer expectations. As is doesn't mean they can pick and choose what to leave it, it just means they can't be held responsible for anything that they had not expected.

I did not tell the M3 Team to hurry up or anything. Other people told them to hurry up, I'm merely saying their (M3's) customers have the right to complain about it. It's their right as the consumers to have expectations from the producers or they'll migrate to a substitute product--again, first year Economics. And yes, if the M3 Team abandoned and no longer supports their products, that is their right--I never said it wasn't--but it will only hurt their business goals (if their goal was to make money--and it is).

xD somehow the first and last sentences you said sound like they are arguing for me. So pretty much if the hardware/software (since it does just say content and not specifically hardware/software) doesn't meet the expectations of the users (like having HGSS support), then the users are SOL. The M3 team wasn't expecting a strange anti-piracy on HGSS and thus cannot be held responsible for what they had not expected.

Quick side thought, I would say customers in the US definitely have a right to complain (that is what the US constitution is based off of anyways, "List of Grievances" xD), but its probably different in China...
Back to the debate now xD.

On the topic of basic economics (this isn't a strongpoint in my argument, just a speculation), its not like the M3 team has been able to stop the migration to a substitute product in the past, thus the large amount of Acekard users, nor do they have all of the latest and greatest (CycloDS). Really they don't have much to lose by waiting a bit before releasing the next firmware update. Also from basic economics, the M3 series (as well as the CycloDS) can be considered an elastic good, thus with the global economy slightly below normal, you can be sure that there just aren't going to be as many people getting the more expensive cards. The ones that are still buying are expecting quality a little more than speed (although speed does still play a fairly large role). As an addition to basic economics, the M3 team is creating a complete fix for HGSS, thus more users would be tempted to go for the perfect fix of HGSS rather than the dead R4, DSTT, and suchlike. The point against this is that Acekard and CycloDS both can play HGSS with like 99.9% compatibility, but I believe both had that ability before HGSS had actually came out (at least acekard did xD), so migration to substitute good has already taken effect and has been taking effect ever since AKAIO came about.

I don't think you quite understood what my argument was in the latter paragraph of my previous post. Nobody claimed that the M3 team couldn't ditch their flashcart, but you are talking about a group of people working to perfect an overly priced piece of hardware even though most of the profits of the flashcart buyers are going to other flashcarts like Acekard (GBAtemp's poll shows just how amazingly one-sided it is). Even then, I don't think the AKAIO team is getting paid for doing the amazing stuff they do. To compare it, we have the AKAIO team, dedicated because they have such a large support group...the entirety of acekard users, and then we have the M3 team, dedicated to keep their reputation up and hold to the expectations of the few dedicated M3 users that don't choose the M3 because of their speed of granting people the ability to pirate, but for the smooth experience of the firmware (thus you see the various firmwares for the M3...Touchpod, M3Sakura, Kaura). The main fact is that there is absolutely no way in hell that a regular sort of group is going to outperform the dedicated group of people. As a separate example, just look at the DSTT team and Ashley's team. The DSTT team is pretty much dead (had they been completely dead then they wouldn't have even attempted taking the unofficial DSTT kernel). Btw, this paragraph has a couple of enormous flaws (just call it a return for the first and last sentence of that first paragraph).

-edit-
Forgot to mention this, but I'm kind of just having this debate because in my class we are supposed to have some Oxford style debate or something, so I thought I might as well practice at least some form of debate, though I guess somehow this could almost count as flaming now that I think about it...So, I defend these posts as a purely informative and educational debate that shouldn't be deleted!

 

[-Mew-]

This topic should be locked, also where can I find this poll you speak off?

 

[arogance1]

The M3 owners have a right to complain as much as the M3 team have the right to ignore the complaints

 

[jurassicplayer]

This topic should be locked, also where can I find this poll you speak off?

It was the Best Flashcart of 2010 poll =D.
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=210614

 

[Registered Troll]

I was wondering, does anyone know when they'll release a new firmware for the M3 DS Simply?

 

[thegame07]

I was wondering, does anyone know when they'll release a new firmware for the M3 DS Simply?

The m3 simply is a r4 clone afaik and no longer receives updates.

 

[RchUncleSkeleton]

The m3 simply is a r4 clone afaik and no longer receives updates.

That's not very helpful!!! But I believe you can use YSMENU on the m3 simply, though I'd still recommend getting a newer card.

 

[thegame07]

The m3 simply is a r4 clone afaik and no longer receives updates.

That's not very helpful!!! But I believe you can use YSMENU on the m3 simply, though I'd still recommend getting a newer card.

Why is my post not helpful? everything I said in it is true.

 

[RchUncleSkeleton]

Why is my post not helpful? everything I said in it is true.

All you said was that it doesn't get updated without any inclination that there may be an alternative. YSMENU gets current updates so yeah.

 

[Registered Troll]

I was wondering, does anyone know when they'll release a new firmware for the M3 DS Simply?

The m3 simply is a r4 clone afaik and no longer receives updates.

What a shitty company. Thanks for your reply.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

This whole thread, all I've heard from you goblin (Possibly related to troll?)

is a whole lotta THIS:

 

[Registered Troll]

Got the YSMENU firmware running on my M3 DS Simply. Works fine, besides that game loading takes like 10 times longer than before. And the new Shin Megami Tensei is still not working.

Guess perhaps it's time for a new card.. but this time not from this shit company M3.

 

[BraveToaster]

SMT works fine in my 4.8X touchpod, got about 3 hours playtime under my belt with no issues thus far, and no save corruption

 

[ZeWarrior]

I was wondering, does anyone know when they'll release a new firmware for the M3 DS Simply?

The m3 simply is a r4 clone afaik and no longer receives updates.

What a shitty company. Thanks for your reply.

What a shitty troll. The M3 team is fine, go complain to the R4 team for ditching the R4 DS , since M3 simply and r4 ds were the exact same thing basically. When R4DS stopped getting updates, so did the M3DSS.