US presidential election

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Who are/did/would you vote for?


  • Total voters
    153
So regardless of what you say Obama has not made the economy worse.... And if you're wondering he has done more than 'Obamacare' which actually a good thing
This is some pretty smelly
bullshit.gif

Have a look at the chart below.
national-debt-chart-14-trillion.jpg
I will say that this chart doesn't accurately portray the entire picture though. Bush came into office under a surplus, where as Obama came into office with substantial debt, in a recession, and in time of war. Not to mention policies that Bush created increased the debt day by day from the first second Obama stepped foot into office. That's like me running the electric bill up insanely, then moving out, and fitting my roomate with the bill. Obama has increased the debt, but he has been in a position that not many can or would overcome. I'm not really a fan of politics or statistically arguing which president made it worse, but you have to logically look at the the whole picture and formulate your own opinions on the bullshit you find through media and the internet.
Yeah, he has improved unemployment. He has helped us get out of a recession because the Congress that just says no surely didn't.


 
So regardless of what you say Obama has not made the economy worse.... And if you're wondering he has done more than 'Obamacare' which actually a good thing
This is some pretty smelly
bullshit.gif

Have a look at the chart below.
national-debt-chart-14-trillion.jpg
I will say that this chart doesn't accurately portray the entire picture though. Bush came into office under a surplus, where as Obama came into office with substantial debt, in a recession, and in time of war. Not to mention policies that Bush created increased the debt day by day from the first second Obama stepped foot into office. That's like me running the electric bill up insanely, then moving out, and fitting my roomate with the bill. Obama has increased the debt, but he has been in a position that not many can or would overcome. I'm not really a fan of politics or statistically arguing which president made it worse, but you have to logically look at the the whole picture and formulate your own opinions on the bullshit you find through media and the internet.
Yeah, he has improved unemployment. He has helped us get out of a recession because the Congress that just says no surely didn't.


 
it doesn't matter. under Reagan and Bush 1, the debt increased substantially. Not as much as under Bush 2, but it still increased. And yet during the Clinton years we ran a NEGATIVE balance (i.e. we made progress against the debt). This proves that proper policies can pull things in the right direction. I don't care how much "Bush baggage" you want to use as your scapegoat, you can't justify an increase of 24% of total debt (that's all debt accrued by the USA from 1776 to 2009) in only two years and a half years, i.e from 2009 - June 2011 when that graph was made. Since almost another year has gone by the number is probably over 30% now, and we're still in Obama's first term.
I agree that you can't justify an increase of 24% of total debt (one could argue that increasing the debt is not as much of a priority as stopping the economy from hemorrhaging), but remember that the Obama policies were not very significant.

You can argue that extending the Bush tax cuts was a bad decision. Easily. But what's important now is that Obama has pledged not to extend the Bush tax cuts on people making over $250,000 again. Mitt Romney and other Republican nominees would not only allow them to continue, but they would take it even further. If one is concerned about the debt, Obama is the obvious choice.

Oh he turned it around alright. Just in the wrong direction. :creep:
Do you have any evidence? Because I've already posted evidence to the contrary, and since then, jobs numbers have been posted that show new jobs still being created, more people re-entering the job-search, and unemployment not getting worse despite those re-entering the job-search. I'm starting to suspect that you're just trolling me. To argue that the economy is doing anything but getting better under the Obama policies is contrary to the data.

Edit: Just to be clear, that doesn't mean we don't have a long way to go.
 
So regardless of what you say Obama has not made the economy worse.... And if you're wondering he has done more than 'Obamacare' which actually a good thing
This is some pretty smelly
bullshit.gif

Have a look at the chart below.
national-debt-chart-14-trillion.jpg
I will say that this chart doesn't accurately portray the entire picture though. Bush came into office under a surplus, where as Obama came into office with substantial debt, in a recession, and in time of war. Not to mention policies that Bush created increased the debt day by day from the first second Obama stepped foot into office. That's like me running the electric bill up insanely, then moving out, and fitting my roomate with the bill. Obama has increased the debt, but he has been in a position that not many can or would overcome. I'm not really a fan of politics or statistically arguing which president made it worse, but you have to logically look at the the whole picture and formulate your own opinions on the bullshit you find through media and the internet.
Yeah, he has improved unemployment. He has helped us get out of a recession because the Congress that just says no surely didn't.


 
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Lacius,

the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress for the first two years of Obama's reign and renewed those "Bush" tax cuts. They are not "Bush" tax cuts anymore.


edit: and what's more, the cuts continue to this day because the Democrat controlled Senate hasn't passed a budget (despite being Constitutionally mandated to do so) for over three years, so the status quo spending just carries on.
There's the big lie that everyone tells, you forget the Blue Dog Democrats, who are technically Republicans. They still don't have 60 which would allow a filibuster proof Senate.You sound like a Republican to me.


They did have 60, and they didn't act. And who gives a shit about a filibuster?? Let the fucking Republicans filibuster.

In 2009 and 2010 the Democrats controlled the Congress, period. All the Republicans could do was squawk and whine, and the Democrats didn't have the balls to fix shit.

And, I said I'm a registered Democrat. And I mostly vote Democrat, though in local races where I know the candidates (sometimes personally) I don't always follow the line so I don't check straight ticket. I did vote for Obama in 2008. I feel fucked, so it ain't happening again. I would vote for Hillary if she ran. I'm 44 years old and have voted in more elections than you've probably even been alive for.
 
Lacius,

the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress for the first two years of Obama's reign and renewed those "Bush" tax cuts. They are not "Bush" tax cuts anymore.


edit: and what's more, the cuts continue to this day because the Democrat controlled Senate hasn't passed a budget (despite being Constitutionally mandated to do so) for over three years, so the status quo spending just carries on.
There's the big lie that everyone tells, you forget the Blue Dog Democrats, who are technically Republicans. They still don't have 60 which would allow a filibuster proof Senate.You sound like a Republican to me.


They did have 60, and they didn't act. And who gives a shit about a filibuster?? Let the fucking Republicans filibuster.

In 2009 and 2010 the Democrats controlled the Congress, period. All the Republicans could do was squawk and whine, and the Democrats didn't have the balls to fix shit.

And, I said I'm a registered Democrat. And I mostly vote Democrat, though in local races where I know the candidates (sometimes personally) I don't always follow the line so I don't check straight ticket. I did vote for Obama in 2008. I feel fucked, so it ain't happening again. I would vote for Hillary if she ran. I'm 44 years old and have voted in more elections than you've probably even been alive for.
Blue Dog Democrats. They were the original problems they didn't have a majority without them.

Joe Lieberman
Ben Nelson
 
it doesn't matter. under Reagan and Bush 1, the debt increased substantially. Not as much as under Bush 2, but it still increased. And yet during the Clinton years we ran a NEGATIVE balance (i.e. we made progress against the debt). This proves that proper policies can pull things in the right direction. I don't care how much "Bush baggage" you want to use as your scapegoat, you can't justify an increase of 24% of total debt (that's all debt accrued by the USA from 1776 to 2009) in only two years and a half years, i.e from 2009 - June 2011 when that graph was made. Since almost another year has gone by the number is probably over 30% now, and we're still in Obama's first term.
I agree that you can't justify an increase of 24% of total debt (one could argue that increasing the debt is not as much of a priority as stopping the economy from hemorrhaging), but remember that the Obama policies were not very significant.

You can argue that extending the Bush tax cuts was a bad decision. Easily. But what's important now is that Obama has pledged not to extend the Bush tax cuts on people making over $250,000 again. Mitt Romney and other Republican nominees would not only allow them to continue, but they would take it even further. If one is concerned about the debt, Obama is the obvious choice.

Oh he turned it around alright. Just in the wrong direction. :creep:
Do you have any evidence? Because I've already posted evidence to the contrary, and since then, jobs numbers have been posted that show new jobs still being created, more people re-entering the job-search, and unemployment not getting worse despite those re-entering the job-search. I'm starting to suspect that you're just trolling me. To argue that the economy is doing anything but getting better under the Obama policies is contrary to the data.

Edit: Just to be clear, that doesn't mean we don't have a long way to go.
Funny; I was starting to suspect that you were trolling me.
Anyways, examples:
-Obamacare
-Gas Prices: families are starting to have to choose between putting food on the table and putting gas in the car to get to work. I'm serious.
-Taxes: Obama, you can't play Robin Hood. Soaking the rich will only start a cycle of who's rich and who's poor.
-Jobs: mostly from stimulus packages. But once the stimulus runs out, companies have to lay off people and whoever just got a job is right back where they started.

 
it doesn't matter. under Reagan and Bush 1, the debt increased substantially. Not as much as under Bush 2, but it still increased. And yet during the Clinton years we ran a NEGATIVE balance (i.e. we made progress against the debt). This proves that proper policies can pull things in the right direction. I don't care how much "Bush baggage" you want to use as your scapegoat, you can't justify an increase of 24% of total debt (that's all debt accrued by the USA from 1776 to 2009) in only two years and a half years, i.e from 2009 - June 2011 when that graph was made. Since almost another year has gone by the number is probably over 30% now, and we're still in Obama's first term.
I agree that you can't justify an increase of 24% of total debt (one could argue that increasing the debt is not as much of a priority as stopping the economy from hemorrhaging), but remember that the Obama policies were not very significant.

You can argue that extending the Bush tax cuts was a bad decision. Easily. But what's important now is that Obama has pledged not to extend the Bush tax cuts on people making over $250,000 again. Mitt Romney and other Republican nominees would not only allow them to continue, but they would take it even further. If one is concerned about the debt, Obama is the obvious choice.

Oh he turned it around alright. Just in the wrong direction. :creep:
Do you have any evidence? Because I've already posted evidence to the contrary, and since then, jobs numbers have been posted that show new jobs still being created, more people re-entering the job-search, and unemployment not getting worse despite those re-entering the job-search. I'm starting to suspect that you're just trolling me. To argue that the economy is doing anything but getting better under the Obama policies is contrary to the data.

Edit: Just to be clear, that doesn't mean we don't have a long way to go.
Funny; I was starting to suspect that you were trolling me.
Anyways, examples:
-Obamacare
-Gas Prices: families are starting to have to choose between putting food on the table and putting gas in the car to get to work. I'm serious.
-Taxes: Obama, you can't play Robin Hood. Soaking the rich will only start a cycle of who's rich and who's poor.
-Jobs: mostly from stimulus packages. But once the stimulus runs out, companies have to lay off people and whoever just got a job is right back where they started.
You realize Presidents don't control gas prices, "Fox News" pointed that out during the 2004 election. Now they've changed their mind though. Obamacare is good, it's a Republican idea, ever heard of Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich. God, you are the troll here.
 
Lacius,

the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress for the first two years of Obama's reign and renewed those "Bush" tax cuts. They are not "Bush" tax cuts anymore.


edit: and what's more, the cuts continue to this day because the Democrat controlled Senate hasn't passed a budget (despite being Constitutionally mandated to do so) for over three years, so the status quo spending just carries on.
There's the big lie that everyone tells, you forget the Blue Dog Democrats, who are technically Republicans. They still don't have 60 which would allow a filibuster proof Senate.You sound like a Republican to me.


They did have 60, and they didn't act. And who gives a shit about a filibuster?? Let the fucking Republicans filibuster.

In 2009 and 2010 the Democrats controlled the Congress, period. All the Republicans could do was squawk and whine, and the Democrats didn't have the balls to fix shit.

And, I said I'm a registered Democrat. And I mostly vote Democrat, though in local races where I know the candidates (sometimes personally) I don't always follow the line so I don't check straight ticket. I did vote for Obama in 2008. I feel fucked, so it ain't happening again. I would vote for Hillary if she ran. I'm 44 years old and have voted in more elections than you've probably even been alive for.
Blue Dog Democrats. They were the original problems they didn't have a majority without them.


That's what the whip is for (i.e. majority whip, minority whip). And the whole thing about "the republicans held unemployment hostage to keep the tax cuts" argument assumes it was necessary and good to keep people out of work sitting at home eating cheese doodles. Where are the original ideas that got us out of the Depression in the 30's?? Put those people to work and then give them a check. That's what Roosevelt did and we still benefit from it.

And again I say, who gives a damn about a filibuster? It would've just made the Republicans look like foolish elitist a-holes defending the rich (i.e. confirmation of what we already know), so why should the Democrats have been afraid of it? They had the votes for a majority win ... the Republicans could've filibustered it till they were blue in the face, but in the end the tax cuts could've been stopped.

I don't believe any of that shit .. they just make up excuses for each other and keep the ball rolling.
 
Lacius,

the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress for the first two years of Obama's reign and renewed those "Bush" tax cuts. They are not "Bush" tax cuts anymore.


edit: and what's more, the cuts continue to this day because the Democrat controlled Senate hasn't passed a budget (despite being Constitutionally mandated to do so) for over three years, so the status quo spending just carries on.
There's the big lie that everyone tells, you forget the Blue Dog Democrats, who are technically Republicans. They still don't have 60 which would allow a filibuster proof Senate.You sound like a Republican to me.


They did have 60, and they didn't act. And who gives a shit about a filibuster?? Let the fucking Republicans filibuster.

In 2009 and 2010 the Democrats controlled the Congress, period. All the Republicans could do was squawk and whine, and the Democrats didn't have the balls to fix shit.

And, I said I'm a registered Democrat. And I mostly vote Democrat, though in local races where I know the candidates (sometimes personally) I don't always follow the line so I don't check straight ticket. I did vote for Obama in 2008. I feel fucked, so it ain't happening again. I would vote for Hillary if she ran. I'm 44 years old and have voted in more elections than you've probably even been alive for.
Blue Dog Democrats. They were the original problems they didn't have a majority without them.


That's what the whip is for (i.e. majority whip, minority whip). And the whole thing about "the republicans held unemployment hostage to keep the tax cuts" argument assumes it was necessary and good to keep people out of work sitting at home eating cheese doodles. Where are the original ideas that got us out of the Depression in the 30's?? Put those people to work and then give them a check. That's what Roosevelt did and we still benefit from it.

And again I say, who gives a damn about a filibuster? It would've just made the Republicans look like foolish elitist a-holes defending the rich (i.e. confirmation of what we already know), so why should the Democrats have been afraid of it? They had the votes for a majority win ... the Republicans could've filibustered it till they were blue in the face, but in the end the tax cuts could've been stopped.

I don't believe any of that shit .. they just make up excuses for each other and keep the ball rolling.
No, DINOs were the problem. It's the Democratic Senators from the Republican States. They voted for Obamacare due to pressure from Harry Reid but that's all they really did to help Obama.
 
You realize Presidents don't control gas prices, "Fox News" pointed that out during the 2004 election. Now they've changed their mind though. Obamacare is good, it's a Republican idea, ever heard of Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich. God, you are the troll here.

you're right about that to some extent. What the President does control is how much money gets printed, because pumping paper money out onto the street devalues the dollar and raises the price of everything. And the Obama administration has been going overtime printing money for three years now. So in that respect, his policies have affected prices. I agree with you that Fox has been hypocritical in their coverage of the gas price situation now vs. 2004, but to be fair about it Bush DID get the price of gas back down. Took a little while, but when Obama took office the price per gallon was back well under $2. It's double that now.
 
You realize Presidents don't control gas prices, "Fox News" pointed that out during the 2004 election. Now they've changed their mind though. Obamacare is good, it's a Republican idea, ever heard of Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich. God, you are the troll here.

you're right about that to some extent. What the President does control is how much money gets printed, because pumping paper money out onto the street devalues the dollar and raises the price of everything. And the Obama administration has been going overtime printing money for three years now. So in that respect, his policies have affected prices. I agree with you that Fox has been hypocritical in their coverage of the gas price situation now vs. 2004, but to be fair about it Bush DID get the price of gas back down. Took a little while, but when Obama took office the price per gallon was back well under $2. It's double that now.
Yeah, and it just has to go down before the election. Stop hating on Obama and praising Bush.
 
In 2009 and 2010 the Democrats controlled the Congress, period. All the Republicans could do was squawk and whine, and the Democrats didn't have the balls to fix shit.
First off, Democrats only had 60 votes in the Senate in 2009 (before the death of Ted Kennedy). So no, not "period." Second, the Democrats did a lot during that time, including but not limited to economic recovery, health care reform, etc. Second, because Republicans filibustered pretty much everything in the Senate, 60 votes are required; you already know this. But as already mentioned, there are moderate Democrats and "Blue Dog" Democrats who had to be appeased in order for things to pass. For example, if it weren't for the appeasement of moderate Democrats, health care reform would have likely been a public option (as it was in the House). As for the debt, I've already shown that Obama is not to blame for its continued increase. If Obama is elected to another term, we can expect the deficit to be reduced, both from the end of the Bush tax cuts and deficit reduction plans that have already been proposed.

Anyways, examples:
-Obamacare
-Gas Prices: families are starting to have to choose between putting food on the table and putting gas in the car to get to work. I'm serious.
-Taxes: Obama, you can't play Robin Hood. Soaking the rich will only start a cycle of who's rich and who's poor.
-Jobs: mostly from stimulus packages. But once the stimulus runs out, companies have to lay off people and whoever just got a job is right back where they started.
What are these examples of? Examples of how Obama has made the economy worse? Obamacare does not have a negative effect on the economy nor the debt. Gas prices are not Obama's fault. Some people argue that they're Obama's fault because of Keystone not happening, but Keystone would have had little to no effect on gas prices, and any effect wouldn't have been for years. As for taxes, Obama wants the rich to pay a fair share, like those during the Clinton administration. Obama is also for closing loopholes but lowering rates, which is also extremely fair. In fact, without the knowledge that closing loopholes/lowering rates is an Obama proposal, the vast majority of Americans support it. As for jobs, yes, as you just said, the stimulus improved job growth. However, you misunderstand how stimulus works. To put it very simply, it got the gears of the economy turning again. It's not just money that's pumped into some paychecks and then runs out. However, I agree that the stimulus was too little and that more would help. Thanks for saying so. I'm glad I'm getting through to you.

That's what the whip is for (i.e. majority whip, minority whip). And the whole thing about "the republicans held unemployment hostage to keep the tax cuts" argument assumes it was necessary and good to keep people out of work sitting at home eating cheese doodles. Where are the original ideas that got us out of the Depression in the 30's?? Put those people to work and then give them a check. That's what Roosevelt did and we still benefit from it.
While unemployment was getting better, people were still struggling; they still are, even. A lot of people needed unemployment. To say it kept people out of work sitting at home and eating cheese doodles is, if anything, offensive. Unemployment is usually given to those who are in desperate need of money, and they spend that money quickly on things they need, such as food, utilities, rent, etc., and that money helps get the economy going. It was both the morally right thing to do for people who were unemployed and the most logical thing to do in terms of getting the economy going again.

Also, unemployment benefits was created in response to the Great Depression. It helped the people who were unemployed and helped the economy.

And again I say, who gives a damn about a filibuster? It would've just made the Republicans look like foolish elitist a-holes defending the rich (i.e. confirmation of what we already know), so why should the Democrats have been afraid of it? They had the votes for a majority win ... the Republicans could've filibustered it till they were blue in the face, but in the end the tax cuts could've been stopped.

I don't believe any of that shit .. they just make up excuses for each other and keep the ball rolling.
The Bush tax cuts were to expire after 2010. There was nothing to vote on in regard to the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy until the Republicans held unemployment benefits and the tax cuts for the middle class hostage.

Edit: As for why he didn't repeal them super early in his term, you got me. Since they were going to expire in 2010, I guess they were seen as a low priority. I'm not sure if he could have gotten the repeal through the Senate for reasons we already discussed. It's much easier to let things expire with no action than getting together votes that you likely don't even have to do it. The main point though is that Obama and the Democrats are very much against the Bush tax cuts that contribute the most to our debt. The Republicans would make the tax cuts for the wealthy worse.
 
You realize Presidents don't control gas prices, "Fox News" pointed that out during the 2004 election. Now they've changed their mind though. Obamacare is good, it's a Republican idea, ever heard of Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich. God, you are the troll here.

you're right about that to some extent. What the President does control is how much money gets printed, because pumping paper money out onto the street devalues the dollar and raises the price of everything. And the Obama administration has been going overtime printing money for three years now. So in that respect, his policies have affected prices. I agree with you that Fox has been hypocritical in their coverage of the gas price situation now vs. 2004, but to be fair about it Bush DID get the price of gas back down. Took a little while, but when Obama took office the price per gallon was back well under $2. It's double that now.
Yeah, and it's just has to go down before the election. Stop hating on Obama and praising Bush.


not hating on anyone, not praising anyone. Except Bill Clinton. Good President. I like Eisenhower too ... he might've been a Republican but maybe the best President of the 20th Century. Didn't try to rule, just preside. Too bad we can't get people like that in charge anymore.

I don't really care who gets elected President ... we're in a world of shit either way.
 
I'm not praising Bush at all. And the way he is affecting gas prices is that hes trying to get everyone to switch to these electric or water powered or Hybrid cars (the small three wheeled ones that if you get in a crash in you're dead)
 
You realize Presidents don't control gas prices, "Fox News" pointed that out during the 2004 election. Now they've changed their mind though. Obamacare is good, it's a Republican idea, ever heard of Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich. God, you are the troll here.

you're right about that to some extent. What the President does control is how much money gets printed, because pumping paper money out onto the street devalues the dollar and raises the price of everything. And the Obama administration has been going overtime printing money for three years now. So in that respect, his policies have affected prices. I agree with you that Fox has been hypocritical in their coverage of the gas price situation now vs. 2004, but to be fair about it Bush DID get the price of gas back down. Took a little while, but when Obama took office the price per gallon was back well under $2. It's double that now.
Yeah, and it's just has to go down before the election. Stop hating on Obama and praising Bush.


not hating on anyone, not praising anyone. Except Bill Clinton. Good President. I like Eisenhower too ... he might've been a Republican but maybe the best President of the 20th Century. Didn't try to rule, just preside. Too bad we can't get people like that in charge anymore.

I don't really care who gets elected President ... we're in a world of shit either way.
No, we will be much worse off if a Republican takes office. And NeoSupaMario what the hell are you talking about. Obama is looking into natural gas.
 
And NeoSupaMario what the hell are you talking about. Obama is looking into natural gas.
My bad. He's looking into tht too. Here's the article: Obama will propose a $1 billion “National Community Deployment Challenge” to help 10 to 15 communities “invest in the necessary infrastructure, remove the regulatory barriers, and create the local incentives to support deployment of advanced vehicles at critical mass.”
“Deployment Communities would serve as real-world laboratories, leveraging limited federal resources to develop different models to deploy advanced vehicles at scale,” states a White House summary of the initiative, which is part of Obama’s fiscal 2013 budget plan.

The proposal is aimed at spurring the use of electric vehicles, natural-gas-powered vehicles and other alternative fuels. The White House, in the summary, sought to emphasize its bipartisan roots, noting electric-vehicle legislation sponsored by Sens. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) and Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.).
 
And NeoSupaMario what the hell are you talking about. Obama is looking into natural gas.
My bad. He's looking into tht too. Here's the article: Obama will propose a $1 billion "National Community Deployment Challenge" to help 10 to 15 communities "invest in the necessary infrastructure, remove the regulatory barriers, and create the local incentives to support deployment of advanced vehicles at critical mass."
"Deployment Communities would serve as real-world laboratories, leveraging limited federal resources to develop different models to deploy advanced vehicles at scale," states a White House summary of the initiative, which is part of Obama's fiscal 2013 budget plan.

The proposal is aimed at spurring the use of electric vehicles, natural-gas-powered vehicles and other alternative fuels. The White House, in the summary, sought to emphasize its bipartisan roots, noting electric-vehicle legislation sponsored by Sens. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) and Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.).
So what electric cars are good for the environment, what's your point?
 
He's using the gas prices to get everyone to get electric cars. Although he claims to have nothing to do with the gas prices, he will take responsibility for the prices going down as the election starts between him and the nominee.
 
He's using the gas prices to get everyone to get electric cars.
Your kidding right, okay first he can't control gas prices, second high gas prices are bad for him, third most people can't afford electric cars. Stop watching "Fox News". Because none of what you said in this statement is even close to being true.
 

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