Understanding Nintendo and why no one does

[JulietStMoon]

I can understand why they just keep throwing Mario and Pokemon out, and do all thier innovation under those two names, if they dont people wont even take a second loom at it.

Mario and Pokemon MIGHT not have been such good examples. Just saying. I largely agree with you, though.

 

[Smuff]

Has the entire Nintendo community (devs and gamers) disowned the Kongs?
And where the heck is my Jet Force Gemini 2 Ninty ?

 

[Clarky]

And where the heck is my Jet Force Gemini 2 Ninty ?

Rare's IP, you best bother MS over that one

 

[Deleted_171835]

Series aside, they could come up with something entirely new. I mean, there's been talks of a Nintendo shooter, right? I'd like to see how they fare with that. Or maybe a new RPG game? A proper RPG, not a Zelda clone? Golden Sun came out well, they could do even better! The possibilities are endless, and yet it seems to me that they're too busy making Mario rehashes and minor improvements to the Pokemon series. Their design department must be pretty hard at work drawing all those new Pokemons each generation.

I would argue that they do release a number of good original games alongside their original franchises. We got Xenoblade Chronicles, Elite Beat Agents, Rhythm Heaven, Kid Icarus: Uprising (practically a new game considering the last entry came out in '91) Pikmin (Gamecube era) alongside Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 (the best 3D platformer of all time, IMO), Metroid Prime (3) and Zelda: Skyward Sword.

New IPs don't really concern me as much as long as their main games remain stellar and innovative, though.


And I really disagree with your Mario rehash comment but I know about your fervent hate of Mario games so I won't get into it.

 

[Foxi4]

We got Xenoblade Chronicles //Nintendo only owns the controlling stake, it's not a Nintendo game.
Elite Beat Agents //Publishing doesn't mean developing. It's an iNiS game
Rhythm Heaven //Fair play, but I don't think it's one of those games that "caught on" in the west.
Kid Icarus: Uprising //Not a new IP, regardless of whether or not the gameplay is entirely different
Pikmin (Gamecube era //Which is why it's ancient - 11 years old by now, and we talked about new IP's they need to consider creating.
alongside Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 (the best 3D platformer of all time, IMO) //Super Mario Rehash Bros. regardless of whether or not it's a good game. Mario is part of the problem, Nintendo rides on the franchise's popularity rather than inventing new ones.
Metroid Prime (3) //See above
and Zelda: Skyward Sword. //See above

And I really disagree with your Mario rehash comment but I know about your fervent hate of Mario games so I won't get into it. //I don't hate Mario games - I simply think that Nintendo should consider creating more IP's rather than more sequels. You're welcome.

 

[JulietStMoon]

We got Xenoblade Chronicles //Nintendo only owns the controlling stake, it's not a Nintendo game.
Elite Beat Agents //Publishing doesn't mean developing. It's an iNiS game
Rhythm Heaven //Fair play, but I don't think it's one of those games that "caught on" in the west.
Kid Icarus: Uprising //Not a new IP, regardless of whether or not the gameplay is entirely different
Pikmin (Gamecube era //Which is why it's ancient - 11 years old by now, and we talked about new IP's they need to consider creating.
alongside Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 (the best 3D platformer of all time, IMO) //Super Mario Rehash Bros. regardless of whether or not it's a good game. Mario is part of the problem, Nintendo rides on the franchise's popularity rather than inventing new ones.
Metroid Prime (3) //See above
and Zelda: Skyward Sword. //See above

And I really disagree with your Mario rehash comment but I know about your fervent hate of Mario games so I won't get into it. //I don't hate Mario games - I simply think that Nintendo should consider creating more IP's rather than more sequels. You're welcome.

Foxi, I can't speak for Metroid Prime 3 since I haven't gotten to it yet, but how on EARTH are Super Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword rehashes? Have you played them at all? They play so differently from their predecessors, and I don't just mean like "oh, they added motion controls to replace button controls." Both are easily the most innovative in their respective series that I've played in a while.

For a comparison, Super Mario Sunshine was just a sequel to Super Mario 64 with a water pump gimmick. Super Mario Galaxy felt more like an evolution than a mere sequel. And Twilight Princess Wii was just a traditional Zelda game that replaced button commands with motion commands. Skyward Sword truly evolved the game to be dedicated to motion based puzzles that not only were creative, but just flat-out would be impossible/impractical in a non-motion controlled game.

 

[emigre]

Ah, Xenoblade...£30 I'll never see again.

 

[Deleted_171835]

We got Xenoblade Chronicles //Nintendo only owns the controlling stake, it's not a Nintendo game.
Elite Beat Agents //Publishing doesn't mean developing. It's an iNiS game
Rhythm Heaven //Fair play, but I don't think it's one of those games that "caught on" in the west.
Kid Icarus: Uprising //Not a new IP, regardless of whether or not the gameplay is entirely different
Pikmin (Gamecube era //Which is why it's ancient - 11 years old by now, and we talked about new IP's they need to consider creating.
alongside Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 (the best 3D platformer of all time, IMO) //Super Mario Rehash Bros. regardless of whether or not it's a good game. Mario is part of the problem, Nintendo rides on the franchise's popularity rather than inventing new ones.
Metroid Prime (3) //See above
and Zelda: Skyward Sword. //See above

And I really disagree with your Mario rehash comment but I know about your fervent hate of Mario games so I won't get into it. //I don't hate Mario games - I simply think that Nintendo should consider creating more IP's rather than more sequels. You're welcome.

No, Monolith Soft is a Nintendo first-party developer now (like Retro Studios). It's a Nintendo game.

Rhythm Heaven caught on enough to warrant a sequel for the Wii. And you missed my point on Kid Icarus Uprising, it's practically a new game associated with an old IP.

Metroid Prime 3, Skyward Sword and Galaxy 1/2 are not rehashes. Not by a long shot.

Metroid Prime 3 plays radically different from other Metroid games (being in the Prime series and all) and differentiates itself from the other Prime games as well (with more of a sci-fi feel with the space-stations and other hunters, improved mechanics (hyper mode) and new power-ups (grapple beam for one).

Super Mario Galaxy is radically different from Sunshine/64 with more linear levels, different gameplay mechanics (being in space and all) and power-ups.

Skyward Sword has full 1:1 motion-controls, an impressionist art-style and RPG-style upgrading for your items and stuff.

 

[Foxi4]

Great, soulx. Are they new IP's? No? Good, because that's what we were talking about. Rhythm Heaven is, Xenoblade Chronicles is an off-shot of Xenosaga, so no. The rest are sequels of well-known franchises, and we talked about new IP's, so you can stop praising Nintendo now. They're not being criticized what they're doing - they're being criticized for what they're not doing.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Great, soulx. Are they new IP's? No? Good, because that's what we were talking about. Rhythm Heaven is, Xenoblade Chronicles is an off-shot of Xenosaga, so no. The rest are sequels of well-known franchises, and we talked about new IP's, so you can stop praising Nintendo now. They're not being criticized what they're doing - they're being criticized for what they're not doing.

How the hell is Xenoblade an off-shot of Xenosaga? Have you even played it? The only similarity between the two is well the name 'Xeno'.

Good job completely ignoring the points I made explaining how those games aren't rehashes and that Nintendo does indeed release some original games alongside innovative entries in their established franchises.

 

[JulietStMoon]

Great, soulx. Are they new IP's? No? Good, because that's what we were talking about. Rhythm Heaven is, Xenoblade Chronicles is an off-shot of Xenosaga, so no. The rest are sequels of well-known franchises, and we talked about new IP's, so you can stop praising Nintendo now. They're not being criticized what they're doing - they're being criticized for what they're not doing.

Back on that topic, I would love to see a new IP or 2 from Nintendo, but I don't want them to go crazy with it. Normally I would say "yeah, go crazy" but Nintendo already has so many freaking IPs as it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Nintendo_characters

^Of the ones I've counted here, there are 14 that are completely separate (that is, not spinoffs like Donkey Kong or Super Smash Bros.). And the list neglected to add Kid Icarus, which makes 15. And of those 15, 13 have either seen a release within this past generation (Wii, DS), have a current generation release (3DS, Kid Icarus: Uprising), or else have a known soon-upcoming game on the Wii U (Pikmin 3).

Also, Kid Icarus: Uprising may technically not have been a new Nintendo IP, but it might as well have been. The game plays so freaking differently from either of the past 2 games and came out like 2 decades after the original 2 games. Aside from some humorous retro tributes, there's really no connection to the original games either. You could easily have made the game the exact same and swapped out the characters, and there would be no resemblance at all (and before you say that's a silly cop out, remember Star Fox Adventures didn't use zelda characters, but is almost universally considered as a Zelda clone, albeit a poor one). And it's not just because the old ones were in 2D, and the new one is in 3D, either. It's a completely different game.

 

[Foxi4]

How the hell is Xenoblade an off-shot of Xenosaga? Have you even played it?

Good job completely ignoring the points I made explaining how those games aren't rehashes and that Nintendo does indeed release some original games alongside innovative entries in their established franchises.

Xenoblade Chronicles are obviously related to the Xenosaga franchise, as well as the Xenogears franchise. They're in a different universe, fair play, but they're related games. Good job completely ignoring the point of this conversation - regardless of whether or not the games are fun or not, repetitive or not, rehashes or not, they belong to established franchises. Nintendo doesn't do "new" franchises. That's what we're talking about.

Do you know how many Mario games were released in the last generation? I do - *18*, not counting the ports and re-releases or Olympic Games, since that's a joint venture with SEGA:

1. Super Paper Mario
2. Super Mario Galaxy
3. New Super Mario Bros.
4. Dr. Mario & Germ Buster
5. Super Mario Galaxy 2
6. Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time
7. Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis
8. Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini's March Again!
9. Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
10. Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem!
11. Mario Kart DS
12. Mario Kart Wii
13. Mario Party DS
14. Mario Party 8
15. Mario Party 9
16. Mario Sports Mix
17. Mario Basketball
18. Mario Baseball

Mario's Nintendo's mascot - we get it, but does it necessitate releasing so many games? No, it does not. Your argument pales when you have a look at the entire list of franchises Nintendo owns. *18* Mario games, and in comparison, Metroid spawned 3 - Metroid Prime 3, Metroid Prime: Hunters and Other M. F-Zero? None. Star Fox? 1 - Star Fox Command. Donkey Kong? If you don't count the Vs. games, 2 - DK: Jungle Climber and Donkey Kong Country Returns. Zelda? 3 - Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword, and before you fling Twilight Princess at me, I'm not counting it because it's a Gamecube game, plain and simple. Pikimin? Zero. Earthbound? Zero.





The way Nintendo appears to come up with IP's is devouring smaller companies, making them first-party or second-party and releasing their games. There hasn't been a new, 100% Nintendo franchise released in years, apart from Rhythm Heaven, and you're welcome to disagree if you want, but at least understand what's being discussed.

I have had enough with the constant defense of Mariology and Pokemonology - Nintendo oversaturates those franchises, plain and simple.

 

[Langin]

How the hell is Xenoblade an off-shot of Xenosaga? Have you even played it?

Good job completely ignoring the points I made explaining how those games aren't rehashes and that Nintendo does indeed release some original games alongside innovative entries in their established franchises.

Xenoblade Chronicles are obviously related to the Xenosaga franchise, as well as the Xenogears franchise. They're in a different universe, fair play, but they're related games. Good job completely ignoring the point of this conversation - regardless of whether or not the games are fun or not, repetitive or not, rehashes or not, they belong to established franchises. Nintendo doesn't do "new" franchises. That's what we're talking about.

Do you know how many Mario games were released in the last generation? I do - *12*, not counting the ports and re-releases or Olympic Games, since that's a joint venture with SEGA:

1. 
   Super Paper Mario
2. 
   Super Mario Galaxy
3. 
   New Super Mario Bros.
4. 
   Dr. Mario & Germ Buster
5. 
   Super Mario Galaxy 2
6. 
   Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time
7. 
   Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis
8. 
   Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini's March Again!
9. 
   Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
10. 
    Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem!
11. 
    Mario Kart DS
12. 
    Mario Kart Wii

Mario's Nintendo's mascot - we get it, but does it necessitate releasing so many games? No, it does not. Your argument pales when you have a look at the entire list of franchises Nintendo owns. *12* Mario games, and in comparison, Metroid spawned 3 - Metroid Prime 3, Metroid Prime: Hunters and Other M. F-Zero? None. Star Fox? 1 - Star Fox Command. Donkey Kong? If you don't count the Vs. games, 2 - DK: Jungle Climber and Donkey Kong Country Returns. Zelda? 3 - Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword, and before you fling Twilight Princess at me, I'm not counting it because it's a Gamecube game, plain and simple. Pikimin? Zero. Earthbound? Zero.

The way Nintendo appears to come up with IP's is devouring smaller companies, making them first-party or second-party and releasing their games. There hasn't been a new, 100% Nintendo franchise released in years, apart from Rhythm Heaven, and you're welcome to disagree if you want, but at least understand what's being discussed.

Mario Party DS, 8 and 9 as well

 

[Foxi4]

Mario Party DS, 8 and 9 as well

Thank you, that makes it 15.

Jesus Christ... so... much... Mario... It's not even the fact whether or not those games are bad - I thoroughly enjoyed the Mini's games and gotta love New Super Mario Bros., but come on!

 

[Langin]

Mario Party DS, 8 and 9 as well

Thank you, that makes it 15.

Jesus Christ... so... much... Mario... It's not even the fact whether or not those games are bad - I thoroughly enjoyed the Mini's games and gotta love New Super Mario Bros., but come on!

Mario Slam Basketball, Baseball and Mario Sports Mix, lol ;D

Super Mario 64 DS

Paper Mario for Wii

Mario Party DS, 8 and 9 as well

Thank you, that makes it 15.

Jesus Christ... so... much... Mario... It's not even the fact whether or not those games are bad - I thoroughly enjoyed the Mini's games and gotta love New Super Mario Bros., but come on!

Mario Slam Basketball, Baseball and Mario Sports Mix, lol ;D

Super Mario 64 DS

Paper Mario for Wii

Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem!

Mario Power Tennis

Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis

Mario Strikers Charged

This list says hi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_featuring_Mario

 

[Deleted_171835]

Xenoblade Chronicles are obviously related to the Xenosaga franchise, as well as the Xenogears franchise. They're in a different universe, fair play, but they're related games. Good job completely ignoring the point of this conversation - regardless of whether or not the games are fun or not, repetitive or not, rehashes or not, they belong to established franchises. Nintendo doesn't do "new" franchises. That's what we're talking about.

Do you know how many Mario games were released in the last generation? I do - *12*, not counting the ports and re-releases or Olympic Games, since that's a joint venture with SEGA:

Spoiler

1. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Super Paper Mario
2. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Super Mario Galaxy
3. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   New Super Mario Bros.
4. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Dr. Mario & Germ Buster
5. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Super Mario Galaxy 2
6. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time
7. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis
8. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini's March Again!
9. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
10. 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem!
11. 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Mario Kart DS
12. 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Mario Kart Wii

Mario's Nintendo's mascot - we get it, but does it necessitate releasing so many games? No, it does not. Your argument pales when you have a look at the entire list of franchises Nintendo owns. *12* Mario games, and in comparison, Metroid spawned 3 - Metroid Prime 3, Metroid Prime: Hunters and Other M. F-Zero? None. Star Fox? 1 - Star Fox Command. Donkey Kong? If you don't count the Vs. games, 2 - DK: Jungle Climber and Donkey Kong Country Returns. Zelda? 3 - Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword, and before you fling Twilight Princess at me, I'm not counting it because it's a Gamecube game, plain and simple. Pikimin? Zero. Earthbound? Zero.


The way Nintendo appears to come up with IP's is devouring smaller companies, making them first-party or second-party and releasing their games. There hasn't been a new, 100% Nintendo franchise released in years, apart from Rhythm Heaven, and you're welcome to disagree if you want, but at least understand what's being discussed.

I have had enough with the constant defense of Mariology and Pokemonology - Nintendo oversaturates those franchises, plain and simple.

Explain to me how Xenoblade Chronicles is related to the Xenosaga franchise. The games are completely different and you haven't given a single reason as to why they're similar.

Your list doesn't count as those games belong to different genres. 2 are 2D platformers, 2 are 3D platformers, 2 are racing games, 3 are RPGs, 3 are puzzle games. Those aren't just new entries into an existing series but rather radically different games within the Mario brand.

I've already mentioned Xenoblade Chronicles as one example of a 100% new Nintendo franchise. You could then bring up Wii Sports/Party, Nintendogs, Sakura Samurai, Dillon's Rolling Western as other examples.

 

[Foxi4]

Mario Party DS, 8 and 9 as well

Thank you, that makes it 15.

Jesus Christ... so... much... Mario... It's not even the fact whether or not those games are bad - I thoroughly enjoyed the Mini's games and gotta love New Super Mario Bros., but come on!

Mario Slam Basketball, Baseball and Mario Sports Mix, lol ;D

I'm not even going to bother - we can go on forever, and THIS is the problem. When Nintendo has a *good* idea for a game, they make it a Mario game. That's the go-to direction for a release, because even if the idea turns out bad, it'll still sell because Mario.

But just to be fair, 18 games now. Was there a Mario Golf released anytime recently?

 

[Langin]

Mario Party DS, 8 and 9 as well

Thank you, that makes it 15.

Jesus Christ... so... much... Mario... It's not even the fact whether or not those games are bad - I thoroughly enjoyed the Mini's games and gotta love New Super Mario Bros., but come on!

Mario Slam Basketball, Baseball and Mario Sports Mix, lol ;D

I'm not even going to bother - we can go on forever, and THIS is the problem. When Nintendo has a *good* idea for a game, they make it a Mario game. That's the go-to direction for a release, because even if the idea turns out bad, it'll still sell because Mario.

But just to be fair, 18 games now. Was there a Mario Golf released anytime recently?

Sorry no Mario Golf, just a few Virtual Console releases on Mario golf here and there. Nothing more T_T

 

[Foxi4]

Your list doesn't count as those games belong to different genres. 2 are 2D platformers, 2 are 3D platformers, 2 are racing games, 3 are RPGs, 3 are puzzle games. Those aren't just new entries into an existing series but rather radically different games within the Mario brand.

You just don't get my point, if you don't see a problem with branding every single game as a Mario game, I don't really feel motivated enough to explain it to you.

As for Xenoblade Chronicles, I said it's a *related game*, not a sequel, not a game within the series, it's related. It's considered to be within the Xeno type of games, along with Xenosaga and Xenogears. Xeno.

You could then bring up Wii Sports/Party, Nintendogs, Sakura Samurai, Dillon's Rolling Western as other examples.

Wow, Wii Sports/Party? Really? I'll give you Sakura Samurai, I'll give Dillon's, I won't give you Nintendogs - it's a glorified tamagotchi, there's been hundreds of games like it before and there will be more in the future.

This list says hi: http://en.wikipedia....featuring_Mario

I don't even feel like updating "my list", I was merely naming the ones that came to my head, but it appears that the reality is even worse than my nightmares... Also, I purposely didn't count Mario 64 DS as a new game since it's a port/remake/re-release/I don't care which one of those so I won't check/ancient.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Spoiler: snip

Your list doesn't count as those games belong to different genres. 2 are 2D platformers, 2 are 3D platformers, 2 are racing games, 3 are RPGs, 3 are puzzle games. Those aren't just new entries into an existing series but rather radically different games within the Mario brand.

You just don't get my point, if you don't see a problem with branding every single game as a Mario game, I don't really feel motivated enough to explain it to you.

As for Xenoblade Chronicles, I said it's a *related game*, not a sequel, not a game within the series, it's related. It's considered to be within the Xeno type of games, along with Xenosaga and Xenogears. Xeno.

You could then bring up Wii Sports/Party, Nintendogs, Sakura Samurai, Dillon's Rolling Western as other examples.

Wow, Wii Sports/Party? Really? I'll give you Sakura Samurai, I'll give Dillon's, I won't give you Nintendogs - it's a glorified tamagotchi, there's been hundreds of games like it before and there will be more in the future.

This list says hi: http://en.wikipedia....featuring_Mario

I don't even feel like updating "my list", I was merely naming the ones that came to my head, but it appears that the reality is even worse than my nightmares...

How is it a related game? You haven't explained that. The only thing that's related between the two game is the name 'Xeno'.

You asked for new IPs and those are all technically new IPs.


All of the games you've mentioned are within their own series, only with the Mario brand. The Mario & Luigi games are completely different from the NSMB. series just like that is completely different from Mario vs. Donkey Kong. There is no saturation of the Mario brand like you make it seem.