Turned-based games, Is JUST me or....

Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by romeoondaline, May 17, 2016.

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How do you feel about the TB system used on non-strategy games?

  1. No.

    4.3%
  2. I tend tp steer away from such games

    14.5%
  3. I don't mind it if the story is good, I'll play

    26.1%
  4. I LOVE.

    47.8%
  5. No opinion

    7.2%
  1. romeoondaline
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    romeoondaline GBAtemp Fan

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    DO WE ALL HATE THEM?
    Just kidding.
    But in all seriousness how long has it been now since their release. Now don't get me wrong there are some games where TB compliments the game, such as strategy games and others of the sort. That being said let's look at some facts:

    (1996) Pokemon Series Gen. 1-7 (coming soon) [TBG]
    Opinion


    (1987) Final Fantasy Series 1-10X2 [TBG]
    Opinion

    I could go on to more games who use the outdated TB system but I think you get the idea. What baffles my mind is that we're in 2016, the first TB game was released in 1977, and it was turn based because it was a STRATEGY game. I don't know maybe some people enjoy the slower game play, but what about the rest of us?
     
    Last edited by romeoondaline, May 17, 2016
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  2. vayanui8

    vayanui8 GBAtemp Maniac

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    I love turn based games. Turn based RPGs are easily my favorite genre. The more relaxing gameplay is alot more fitting of alot of story driven games. I do find that it feels more at home on handhelds than home consoles though.
     
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  3. Luckkill4u

    Luckkill4u 4 guys in a car ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    I love Turn Based RPGs more than action RPGs but not that much more. It's more fun thinking up a cool combination of attacks in Bravely Default and Shin Megami Tensei IV. Turn Based just seems more original to me but maybe its just because it's what i grew up with. Action based RPGs can be a bit overwhelming strategy wise and tend to focus more on skill and luck.
     
  4. grossaffe

    grossaffe GBAtemp Addict

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    what's wrong with turn-based?
     
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  5. astrangeone

    astrangeone GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    The first turn based RPG was Dragon Warrior/Quest. I grew up with this genre. (Hi, FF3 on SNES, Earthbound, and Breath of Fire.) I tend to like it because it's a slower paced system that doesn't require quick reflexes and it seems to require thinking instead of just mashing attacks.

    If I remember correctly, Pokemon saved Nintendo the first time around. People's interest in the gameboy was waning after the drop of Tetris, and there wasn't a "hot new game" on the game boy that people liked enough to buy all the game boys in the world. This was before the SNES had a glut of RPGs, and the NES didn't have that many hot titles. Pokemon was a "new" concept at the time, marrying a turn based system with collecting and a "rock-paper-scissors" battle system. It was simple to learn, but hard to master...and addicting because you could "customize" your characters/Pokemon at the time. Plus, it was elegant and didn't require huge resources to create a fun battle system...and devs understood how to program a turn based system because of old school RPGs that came before it.

    If I could have a dream Pokemon game, I would probably want a world like Monster Hunter. Each area is different, and you capture Pokemon by weakening them with other Pokemon. But each Pokemon would be impossible to program - maybe something with preset moves like Pokken, but that misses the beauty of Pokemon (you can customize them with different moves)...
     
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  6. PolarKoala

    PolarKoala Advanced Member

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    Turn-based RPGs are my favorite type of game. I would be deeply saddened if they vanished entirely.
     
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  7. nxwing

    nxwing GBAtemp Addict

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    Pokemon turning into an action based game with elemental adavntages: Has a high chance of attracting new players and it also has a chance of making long time Pokemon veterans move on to other series. The VGC would also change and just turn into a button mashing competition.

    As for FF: I still kinda prefer the turn based ones. Played a bit of the newer ones and I didn't seem to like it.
     
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  8. vayanui8

    vayanui8 GBAtemp Maniac

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    I've never understood why some people seem to think we need to get rid of turn based games. If every game was the same they would be pretty damn boring. its good to have diversity and choice. Sure the concept may have been created due to technical limitations, but so were many other things. The typical mmo combat system was born out of technical limitations, but we hardly need to get rid of it altogether. Hell, I;m sure some day we'll have full on VR but that doesn't mean we'll need to get rid of controllers.
     
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  9. romeoondaline
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    romeoondaline GBAtemp Fan

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    I just want to say that like you guys i grew up with turn-based rpgs, so nothing different there! But if you're my age too, then you GREW up, and your looking for something different (you won't eat your moms cooking EVERYday now would you?). Playing Pokemon on TB each time got tiring and boring, and it's not just pokemon i honestly steered away from turn based games . And don't mistaken me guys, i never said there's anything wrong with TB, just the fact that it's old and an outdated system. On handhelds i do understand not having the power and capability to program everything. But there are those of us who built their own computer or have the power of a ps4, or xbone, or WiiU.

    I've been playing FFXIV, and if anyone has the time to check it
    FFXIV
    ! When you've played something like this where there's nothing but RAW skill and determination to win, and you actually beat the fight's, there's like no going back to turn based.

    Also
    I don't think luck is a determining factor as much as it is skill, hence why i love action based, if i mess up in game, there's nothing better to blame but my own skills, which would make me want to hone them.



    Exactly my point astrangeone, if you wanted an actual full scaled Pokemon game with today's capabilities, it definitely wouldn't be turn based. But i have to disagree with the whole it would be impossible to program each Pokemon, check out FFXIV in open world, they programmed each and every monster with different presets of attacks.


    And for everyone who keeps saying it's "button mashing" are you telling me that you win in SBB by "button mashing"?
     
    Last edited by romeoondaline, May 17, 2016
  10. nxwing

    nxwing GBAtemp Addict

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    I think that's a possible reason why some don't play action RPGs, they don't like to blame theirselves for failure. Action RPGs can be a bit too presurring for some since they require very quick reflexes unlike turn based games.
     
  11. romeoondaline
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    romeoondaline GBAtemp Fan

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    There's nothing wrong with taking it slow, but what i'm targeting are games like Pokemon that should of been Action based, especially since it's been 20 years in the making!


    Sorry about the quadruple posts lol, my browser wouldn't load
     
    Last edited by romeoondaline, May 17, 2016
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  14. Pedeadstrian

    Pedeadstrian GBAtemp's Official frill-necked lizard.

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    If you think there's no RNG in MMOs and that you can't just 1123411234 your way to victory, I have some bad news for you...
    The very first video games were "action." I don't remember Super Mario Bros. or Pong being turn-based. So why haven't you grown up from action games too?
    Seriously, nothing you've said points out to a difference between turn-based and action games. Tons of action games have RNG, and tons of turn-based games put more emphasis in tactics than RNG. The only difference between action and turn-based games are the types of skills that are required. Action games favor reflexes. Turn-based games favor tactics and strategy. There are just as many buttonmasher action games as there are buttonmasher turn-based games.
     
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  15. nxwing

    nxwing GBAtemp Addict

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    Imo, to change the formula of Pokemon could end up being a disaster. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
     
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  16. grossaffe

    grossaffe GBAtemp Addict

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    Umm... okay? I don't see what that has to do with anything. This isn't a "learn to count" game.
     
  17. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    I voted "I don't mind it if the story is good, I'll play". But truth be told, I'm kind of hesitant about the whole thing as well. You see, action RPG's don't just have the advantage that they are faster and therefore more dynamic. It's that they tend to be streamlined and easy to grasp or even to grok. Sure, games like diablo and torchlight tend to throw a few dilemma's as well (faster rate of fire or more damage? And more fire damage, or a gem that...and so on), but in the end it's just clicking away.
    Most turn based games (especially fantasy ones and especially especially final fantasy ones) go directly in the opposite route. With magic, steampunk shit and weird abilities, they offer you a gazillion different ways to damage an opponent but you have to figure out which one is best. To me, that very notion sucks the fun directly out of it.
    Until recently, the first fallouts were the notable exception. I initially thought this was because of the theme (it's not that I hate fantasy, but I do hate the fact that most fantasy games seem to want to club you to death with the fucking background of all the characters). But recently, I've played a game that's...interesting. It's called renowned explorers. The most unique part of it is that combat isn't exactly a physical battle but more a battle of wits. In other words: you can go three different directions (aggressive, mischievious and friendly) and go around harassing, mocking, intimidating, ... others. Not only is this goofy and hilarious*, it's also a good system that truly conveys actual TACTICS in a "fight". Sure, hardcore TBC gamers will probably argue that there's plenty of tactics in them and they'll be right...but they don't promote it. I never care whether I should blind, mute or use any other kind of sub-sub-sub menu item in my arsenal to just get rid of whomever I'm facing.


    Oh, and there's one other game I should mention, though it's only arguably a turn based game: nova-111. In a way, it's a turn based tactics game (so not applicable here? :unsure: ), but it mixes some real-time elements in as well. I had a surprisingly huge amount of fun with this one; perhaps exactly because I can't really compare it to anything else (and I've played lots of games).



    *to quote Totalbiscuit: "we now excite the sheep. No...not like that" :P
     
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  18. romeoondaline
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    romeoondaline GBAtemp Fan

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    I'm glad that some people understood what i meant in my post, it seems like a lot of people took what i said and twisted it just so it sounds obscene. Also you said it, not only does it suck the fun, but it's honestly a very slow mechanic, which makes them even more unrealistic then they already are. In a fight with someone, you don't have the time to choose your options on what to do, if you stand still, you're going to get hit. Honestly i think i would still be into TB games if i wasn't introduced to games like KH or FFXIV, or even FFXII, when you play a game like that, it honestly flips your world upside-down (in a good way).
     
  19. Pedeadstrian

    Pedeadstrian GBAtemp's Official frill-necked lizard.

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    How exactly did we twist your words to make whatever you said sound "obscene?"
    That's your opinion, not everyone's. What, because we disagree with you we're somehow twisting your words?
    It's kind of hard to talk about realism when you start a thread about a game featuring living ice, rocks, keys, etc.
    I've played all KH games, I've played FFXIV, and I've played FFXII, and I still love and prefer turn-based games. You need to realize that not everyone needs to agree with your opinions. Some people just like other stuff (all but one of the people who took your poll).
     
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  20. grossaffe

    grossaffe GBAtemp Addict

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    Yes, we need more realism in our RPGs. I was fully immersed in the game where the where a talking potato murdered the protagonist's parents in a plot to take over the 9th level of the gorish dimension, from which he'll invade earth by opening a portal by means of a portal-opening dance and send in an army of quizarks. But then I entered a battle and had to take turns! Ugh, way to break the illusion that the game scenario could happen in real life!
     
  21. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Erm...I'm afraid I've got some bad news for you: I have to disagree.

    For one, I barely read what you wrote. I just based my answer on the poll question and my own opinion. I barely skimmed over your text and ignored the way you wrote it. But since you assume I read what you wrote as you meant it, I've got to correct myself a bit: I agree with everyone else on that part (I just didn't feel like parroting the same things). I can understand that you didn't mean offense, but next time you should remember not to start a thread by "<topic>...is it JUST me or DO WE ALL HATE IT?". It's not good as a joke and it'll get everyone pissed that has a different opinion (you don't think I'll have a good conversation if I start by saying "Ghandi...is it JUST me or DO WE ALL HATE THAT F***ER?"). So no, we don't twist your words. You simply wrote something that came out wrong.

    Second: if I want to be nitpicky, I'd remark that turn-based games exist for centuries (go is probably over 4000 years old). And it's not like chess would improve if all players started moving their pieces "real-time".
    For some reason, you want to separate turn based mechanics in non-strategy games vs strategy games (which go and chess obviously are). I let that slide as well, but from what I can say, it's just wrong (it would be like asking how we feel on platformers that aren't about jumping). The strategy is part of the appeal (with tactics being the main component). Yes, the gameplay is slower, but it's not like that slowness is perceived as boring.

    Third: you misread what I wrote and even attribute things to my credit which not only did I not say, but I even disagree with. Go ahead...read my post again. I'll leave you some hints here:
    -I said I mainly dislike the fantasy theme in most turn-based games, not the turn-based mechanic in itself.
    -I never said anything about the slower pace of the game making it more unrealistic. More so: I completely disagree with that fact. I practice karate. And every training from white belt to (probably) black belt takes place on a much lower pace than an actual fight. The reason is obvious: if everyone were to fight at normal speed, we'd end up with bruises and fractures and teachers would never have the time to properly train the mechanics were there to learn in the first place. So yes, most kumite is practiced in a sort of slow motion sense where proper execution of fighting mechanics matters FAR more than actually hitting someone. Yes, it's "more unrealistic" if you're hellbent on actually fighting. But it's in no way boring or there because "we like a slower gameplay".
     
  22. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Real time, not really, however blitz chess and tournament chess deliberately have harsh time limits, the former more than the latter, which does arguably improve things in various circumstances, those these days mainly by making humans competitive still.

    Though I would agree with the sentiment; turn based is a gameplay mechanic, maybe it has had a spell of bad/mediocre ones and could do with a rest (I don't know and I might even argue there has been a dearth of them of late) but it is a mechanic and thus has no reason to cease being used. To compare it to real time as well seems an odd choice (I can happily play by email for instance) as turn based affords a whole different type of play -- I don't need to be sitting down and worrying about lag, if someone else plays starcraft for me it is cheating but if someone else clicks for me on civilisation then nobody cares. It might even make about as little sense as comparing myst to call of duty because they both take place from a first person perspective.
     
  23. Clydefrosch

    Clydefrosch GBAtemp Psycho!

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    atb games are still turn based in my book. turns are just slightly more dynamic.
     
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  24. Pedeadstrian

    Pedeadstrian GBAtemp's Official frill-necked lizard.

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    Yeah, it always amazes me when people don't consider atb to be turn-based. Party members and enemies each get their turn, it's just that there's no pausing (for the most part) when it's your turn. In some atb-based games, however, there's an option to pause the atb bars when you're in the sub-menus.

    A game can have both "action" and turns. Heck, even this FFXII you seem to love has the pause function for sub-menus, and the characters still have turns. You see that little bar next to Vaan's name? That's his turn bar. When it's empty, it's not his turn to attack. When it's full, it's his turn to attack.