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Trump allegedly indicted in a Georgia 2020 subversion probe
I am, and neither Hillary nor Ivanka keeping their own private e-mail server rises to the level of criminality as far as I'm concerned. The servers they were "supposed" to be using instead were infamous for getting hacked.
Donald Trump using a consumer phone for his entire stint in office, now that's beyond incompetent. Or perhaps it was intentional being that all of the US' worst enemies/adversaries are Trump's favored allies. Either way, every accusation from him is a confession.
Everything that is in support of Trump is the best, the biggest (yuge), amazing and terrific, everything that is against Trump is fake, fat, droopy and sleepy. That’s why we (the deplorable MAGAts and Trumpeteers) love him - we like this spectacle, for our own selfish reasons. I don’t think this has ever been a secret, he is a WWE Hall of Famer after all. He’s a heel, but he’s our heel. I’m pretty sure we had this chat before.
Thank you for showing the world your true colors. It is useful to know who has dark triad traits and supports others with similar traits (Trump, Et al.). I don't expect any notion of justice, fairness, or intellectual honesty to register with such people as they appear to operate on a fundamentally amoral level, governed by psychopathy, Machiavellianism, and selfishness/narcissism. It is not surprising to see support for Trump from such individuals, people who seem to delight in schadenfreude and pathologically watching the world burn as if it is some sick game. Such fundamentally unethical interlocutors are not worthy any sort good faith discourse, nor should they ever hold any sort of position of power or authority, not president, nor even the most trivial position of authority... because, for them, it is just "for the lulz"... while others have to live with the devastation they create.
I am, and neither Hillary nor Ivanka keeping their own private e-mail server rises to the level of criminality as far as I'm concerned. The servers they were "supposed" to be using instead were infamous for getting hacked.
Donald Trump using a consumer phone for his entire stint in office, now that's beyond incompetent. Or perhaps it was intentional being that all of the US' worst enemies/adversaries are Trump's favored allies. Either way, every accusation from him is a confession.
Hillary is on the list, certainly, but it’s a little bit longer than that. The guy in charge *right now* has retained classified documents from his days as a Senator and later Vice President for years. It is very curious how they were miraculously “discovered” at his multiple properties (including his garage) right around the time Trump was getting indicted… for not returning documents, and promptly sent off just to show how much of a good egg Joe really was. Almost as if it would’ve been a bad look if they weren’t “discovered” and immediately removed. Funny how nobody came knocking for those, I guess the National Archive only cleans up periodically, rather than every spring. In all fairness, I too hold on to documentation that is years upon years old and only “discover” it when it is politically expedient to dispose of it - it’s the nature of sensitive paperwork, it likes to get misplaced. In a cardboard box. Right next to the car. In plain sight. As a side note, I also have multiple bridges to sell to any prospective buyers. We’re just two guys on the Internet - I’m sure you can admit that all of this is mighty convenient, yes? You’re not a fan of the Ice Cream Man anyway, you have a different preferred candidate.
Thank you for showing the world your true colors. It is useful to know who has dark triad traits and supports others with similar traits (Trump, Et al.). I don't expect any notion of justice, fairness, or intellectual honesty to register with such people as they appear to operate on a fundamentally amoral level, governed by psychopathy, Machiavellianism, and selfishness/narcissism. It is not surprising to see support for Trump from such individuals, people who seem to delight in schadenfreude and pathologically watching the world burn as if it is some sick game. Such fundamentally unethical interlocutors are not worthy any sort good faith discourse, nor should they ever hold any sort of position of power or authority, not president, nor even the most trivial position of authority... because, for them, it is just "for the lulz"... while others have to live with the devastation they create.
The guy in charge *right now* has retained classified documents from his days as a Senator and later Vice President for years. It is very curious how they were miraculously “discovered” at his multiple properties (including his garage) right around the time Trump was getting indicted… for not returning documents, and promptly sent off just to show how much of a good egg Joe really was. Almost as if it would’ve been a bad look if they weren’t “discovered” and immediately removed. Funny how nobody came knocking for those, I guess the National Archive only cleans up periodically, rather than every spring. In all fairness, I too hold on to documentation that is years upon years old and only “discover” it when it is politically expedient to dispose of it - it’s the nature of sensitive paperwork, it likes to get misplaced. In a cardboard box. Right next to the car. In plain sight. As a side note, I also have multiple bridges to sell to any prospective buyers. We’re just two guys on the Internet - I’m sure you can admit that all of this is mighty convenient, yes? You’re not a fan of the Ice Cream Man anyway, you have a different preferred candidate.
That's the most hilarious part about the documents case: if Trump had simply handed over everything in the first place, claiming he had forgotten they were there, he never would've been charged. It's because he retained them after claiming to have given them all back, and after having his lawyers attest that he had given them all back, that a push for prosecution became necessary. And of course we come to find out a fuckton of them are missing, no doubt handed out like candy to Putin or Kim Jong Un. Dipshit didn't even have the good sense to use a copier.
Have you actually read the indictments? Multiple actual lawyers have and they're effectively all in agreement that criminal actions have happened, if they have evidence to back up the allegations made.
This has pretty big "everything I don't like is political" energy.
Do you know where you are? 99% of POLTemp users have no idea what they’re talking about 99% of the time. They know the words and they know what those words mean, but once they’re put together into sentences, they turn into gobbledygook and whatever the person *wanted* to read rather than what was actually said. You’ll see an example of just that happening in real time in about 5 minutes. This is not a place for a nuanced and balanced discussion, even if we try our darnedest to make it one.
He's not. He's a "libertarian" who excels at seeming erudite without actually knowing anything useful, tossing around discredited think-tanks as if they were respectable in any way and who calls deliberate trolling as other users being "playful" when it suits him.
Case in point the "let's wait for the outcome" when I remember far different tunes being sung whenever Trump wasn't involved. Then again he really wants Trump to win again because for some crazy reason a multiple-times bankrupt billionaire is now "anti-establishment".
Oh, and the correct way to address Trump is "Mr Rapist".
Have you actually read the indictments? Multiple actual lawyers have and they're effectively all in agreement that criminal actions have happened, if they have evidence to back up the allegations made.
This has pretty big "everything I don't like is political" energy.
Why would one of those things exclude the other? In politics that’s called a “hook”. A majority of Americans agree, by the way, see article below about the Manhattan indictment:
You can have a legitimate grievance in your back pocket, but only act upon it when a target “steps out of line”. That’s politically motivated - it shows that one does not actually care about justice, rather they weaponise it to achieve an ancillary goal. It’s relatively straight-forward. That’s how Americans see this process, even *if* they agree that an indictment is necessary and justified. At some point people grow out of believing in coincidences. Whether true or not, the fact that everything lines up so neatly, one indictment after the other, in quick succession, bears the appearance of impropriety, and politics are all about appearances. It looks like lawfare, and many people would agree that it is lawfare given Trump’s intentions to run again. Now, before you accuse me of proposing a conspiracy theory, none of this has to be coordinated. It’s more like a domino effect - one pops up and people realise “Wait, we can do that? Right now?” - the rest falls into place. After all, they weren’t “the first to act”, so there’s always a convenient excuse, another guy you can point at. Rather than an orchestrated conspiracy, it’s just how people tick.
So, as the "baseline of opinions" I just assume you're part of the 99%? Because otherwise you'd be a terrible baseline.
He's not. He's a "libertarian" who excels at seeming erudite without actually knowing anything useful, tossing around discredited think-tanks as if they were respectable in any way and who calls deliberate trolling as other users being "playful" when it suits him.
Case in point the "let's wait for the outcome" when I remember far different tunes being sung whenever Trump wasn't involved. Then again he really wants Trump to win again because for some crazy reason a multiple-times bankrupt billionaire is now "anti-establishment".
Oh, and the correct way to address Trump is "Mr Rapist".
That's the most hilarious part about the documents case: if Trump had simply handed over everything in the first place, claiming he had forgotten they were there, he never would've been charged. It's because he retained them after claiming to have given them all back, and after having his lawyers attest that he had given them all back, that a push for prosecution became necessary. And of course we come to find out a fuckton of them are missing, no doubt handed out like candy to Putin or Kim Jong Un. Dipshit didn't even have the good sense to use a copier.
Even better at critical thinking and sorting facts from fiction. Lolbertarian apologetics is transparent sophistry. Engaging with sophists is a fool's errand... making me a bit of a fool for replying, though my hope is to shine a little light on sophists as a warning to others. I happen to care about truth, justice, democracy, the rule of law, the integrity of institutions, etc... (which is why Trump et al. need to be put in jail for their crimes) and there's little point engaging in further discourse with bad faith interlocutors. Lesson learned.
This is an interesting one. I admit, at first I thought Willis could just get in the back of the line of prosecutors. Not that I think she's wrong (if I commit a dozen crimes, it's not like my last two are somehow not important), but it's just business as usual now.
...but these charges seem more severe. I'm not too familiar with RICO, but the fact that all the defendants are named says something (though in Smith's case, it's not much of a gamble on who is who). The fact that some (eg Meadows) are charged while they are co-operating in the federal (Smith's) case is...not sure what I make of that.
I say it's much more like Beria's "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime." All of these indictments came after Trump announced he would run again. If he'd have been willing to just fade away, I doubt the Democrats would've bothered with this effort to prosecute one man in four different jurisdictions all at once.
There were multiple investigations (I'm 100% sure Fani Willis was among those) announcing investigations into Trump way before he announced his candidacy.
Also: you claim democrats are behind this. I disagree with that. Investigators don't have to be politically motivated to investigate, and thus far the only ones I've seen making claims about political motivations are the ones who have a political motivation that Trump remains out of jail.
I don’t know why the liberally-minded people here are pretending that the indictments are not politically motivated - they obviously are. I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that they aren’t, but even if we ignore that and pretend that it’s all about justice, none of them prevent President Trump (informally, “President” is a title kept for life in the U.S., if only as a courtesy, just to resolve a dispute from earlier. “Former President” is redundant and only used in formal settings in which the title of “President” is reserved to the current head of state) can, for all intents and purposes, run from a prison cell, and even become President in a prison cell - there is precedent for it (Eugene V. Debbs, Lyndon LaRouche). The Constitution does not disqualify candidates based on their criminal history - the only 3 requirements are being a natural-born citizen who’s been in the country for 14 years and is 35 or older. The only valid conviction that would disqualify Trump would be on the basis of the 14th Amendment, which is very unlikely based on the current seating arrangement in Congress and the Supreme Court. I said it once, I’ll say it a hundred times - President Felon has a nice ring to it. It would be pretty damn hilarious if the country ended up moving the Oval Office into an Oval Cell, I’m all for it, however incredibly unlikely that is.
Do you know where you are? 99% of POLTemp users have no idea what they’re talking about 99% of the time. They know the words and they know what those words mean, but once they’re put together into sentences, they turn into gobbledygook and whatever the person *wanted* to read rather than what was actually said. You’ll see an example of just that happening in real time in about 5 minutes. This is not a place for a nuanced and balanced discussion, even if we try our darnedest to make it one.
Interesting post (note: I've not yet read everything thus far, so apologies if I repeat others). I think it's mostly you playing devil's advocate, but okay...I'll bite:
This depends on context. The main crime is about overturning an election. By that nature, the prosecution is always politically motivated. And on that, I can only agree. Intimidating poll workers, hacking voting software, sending fraudulent college voters...those are political crimes for a political goal. So?
However: Trump and a bunch of republicans (Kevin McCarthey, Gaetz, Cruz, Tailor-Greene, ...) talk about it being ONLY politically motivated. As in: "there's no crime and "the democrats" only do this because they can't win an election in 2024".
...and that's just not correct.
I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that they aren’t, but even if we ignore that and pretend that it’s all about justice, none of them prevent President Trump (informally, “President” is a title kept for life in the U.S., if only as a courtesy, just to resolve a dispute from earlier. “Former President” is redundant and only used in formal settings in which the title of “President” is reserved to the current head of state) can, for all intents and purposes, run from a prison cell, and even become President in a prison cell - there is precedent for it (Eugene V. Debbs, Lyndon LaRouche).
The Constitution does not disqualify candidates based on their criminal history - the only 3 requirements are being a natural-born citizen who’s been in the country for 14 years and is 35 or older. The only valid conviction that would disqualify Trump would be on the basis of the 14th Amendment, which is very unlikely based on the current seating arrangement in Congress and the Supreme Court. I said it once, I’ll say it a hundred times - President Felon has a nice ring to it. It would be pretty damn hilarious if the country ended up moving the Oval Office into an Oval Cell, I’m all for it, however incredibly unlikely that is.
Sure, if you can prove that it was Trump who organised all that, or that it was organised at his direct order. Moreover, Trump was not empowered to overthrow anything without Georgia playing along, so you’re dealing with a breakfast club with no real power behind it. In any case I am unwilling to draw any conclusions until the legal process plays out fully, particularly since I don’t care about the outcome. I’m simply stating that the timing suggests the prosecution is politically motivated, and it does.
The fake elector scheme most likely originated from Giuliani or Sydney Powell, but neither have any authority on that field. Following through on an illegal suggestion makes you at least complicit, so just his approval and authority to execute is sufficient.
Likewise, the chaos surrounding the voting machines originated with Trump, which caused the people below him to do his bidding. Do I have to remind you he was their boss? In Raffensperger's case even his direct superior? Sorry, but even with someone like Trump, you don't "just" say no to the president of the United States.
No, Georgia didn't succumb to the pressure, but you're acting like that somehow invalidates it from being intimidation.
I applaud your desire to engage but honestly, with people like the guy in question, it's a wasted effort because actors in bad faith will always act in bad faith. He specifically has been doing it for a while now, and the ones on ignore list are deranged right-wingers who proudly claim they'd beat up gay classmates or upset at the idea of a brown PM.
Interesting post (note: I've not yet read everything thus far, so apologies if I repeat others). I think it's mostly you playing devil's advocate, but okay...I'll bite:
This depends on context. The main crime is about overturning an election. By that nature, the prosecution is always politically motivated. And on that, I can only agree. Intimidating poll workers, hacking voting software, sending fraudulent college voters...those are political crimes for a political goal. So?
However: Trump and a bunch of republicans (Kevin McCarthey, Gaetz, Cruz, Tailor-Greene, ...) talk about it being ONLY politically motivated. As in: "there's no crime and "the democrats" only do this because they can't win an election in 2024".
...and that's just not correct.
A very long sentence, but...yes. The thing about a democracy is that people absolutely have the right to vote for a prisoner.
I'd share that same statement, but you just know in advance people are going to compare Trump to Mandela without a clue of the irony.
Post automatically merged:
Hold on a second here...
The fake elector scheme most likely originated from Giuliani or Sydney Powell, but neither have any authority on that field. Following through on an illegal suggestion makes you at least complicit, so just his approval and authority to execute is sufficient.
Likewise, the chaos surrounding the voting machines originated with Trump, which caused the people below him to do his bidding. Do I have to remind you he was their boss? In Raffensperger's case even his direct superior? Sorry, but even with someone like Trump, you don't "just" say no to the president of the United States.
No, Georgia didn't succumb to the pressure, but you're acting like that somehow invalidates it from being intimidation.
I didn’t say that it invalidates it, I question who planned it and whether or not it can be considered a conspiracy, particularly if it wasn’t acted upon. We are both privy to the contents of the phone call - I don’t see any direct orders in there. Misguided concerns, maybe, but I would not describe them as malicious when I account for the circumstances. Glad to see some agreement on things that are demonstrably true and obvious, regardless of whether we arrived at the correct conclusion along the same or a different train of thought. As for the “long sentence”, hey - that’s why I used brackets, to insert an important, but unrelated aside concerning an earlier argument in this thread.
Do you know where you are? 99% of POLTemp users have no idea what they’re talking about 99% of the time. They know the words and they know what those words mean, but once they’re put together into sentences, they turn into gobbledygook and whatever the person *wanted* to read rather than what was actually said. You’ll see an example of just that happening in real time in about 5 minutes. This is not a place for a nuanced and balanced discussion, even if we try our darnedest to make it one.
It’s perfectly valid, your inability to follow the conversation is not my problem. If anything, it drives the point home. You’re an object of the study, not an active contributor, so for once your input is not required beyond just “being yourself” in your natural habitat. I have no questions for you whatsoever. By all means, forget that I’m even here and discuss the topic - I’ll sit in my bushes with a pair of binoculars and discuss things with people I’m interested in talking to. You’re not on that list.
EDIT: I see that you found the scroll wheel. Good, good - I will add that to my observation report immediately.
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