The situation in Ukraine...

[Creamu]

His reason is he wants Ukraine's resources. That's not an acceptable or good reason, though. It's just imperialism and/or fascism.

He will kill his brothers and sisters because he wants their resources. It doesn't hold up on its own.

There's nothing "anarcho" about the US,

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/06/health/us-homicide-rate-increase-nchs-study/index.html

we're just a capitalist democracy in decline,

Well it depends on the framing then.

well on its way to becoming an oligarchy.

It's been that for quite a while.

Nobody living here has a choice when it comes to participating in that, so I say let people have whatever escapism they want or can find some comfort in.

Yes, at least offer them quality escapism. This comic book stuff is extremely low grade.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Bad people do exist, and really bad shit does happen when you give them power.

Ignorant people also exist. There are approx. 100mio Russians who think like Putin. Ukraine was a red line, even for many pro-Western Russians in Russia. I do not need news media to tell me this. But even the media occasionally mentioned this.

Countries aren´t evil or good. Countries have interests. The rest is facade. You should now this if your age is double digit.

 

[Maximumbeans]

I don't think we can say anything for certain, only our speculations.

Exactly—

It is obvious that all journalists lie.

...huh.

 

[Xzi]

He will kill his brothers and sisters because he wants their resources. It doesn't hold up on its own.

Not for a reasonable human being it doesn't, no. But Vlad stopped being that a long, long time ago.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/06/health/us-homicide-rate-increase-nchs-study/index.html

That makes us a mentally disturbed nation with too many guns, not anarchist. The police only truly protect and serve the capitalist ruling class by design.

Yes, at least offer them quality escapism. This comic book stuff is extremely low grade.

Did you see any of the superhero movies of the late 90s/early 00s? Now those were total shit. OTOH I really like a lot of what Marvel is doing recently, Multiverse of Madness was great as a horror hybrid. The Boys on Amazon is also really great as a superhero-themed satire of capitalism and fascism.

Ignorant people also exist. There are approx. 100mio Russians who think like Putin. Ukraine was a red line, even for many pro-Western Russians in Russia. I do not need news media to tell me this. But even the media occasionally mentioned this.

Nah I call bullshit. The subtext there is that Russians know they'd be subject to retaliation for speaking in protest of Putin's actions. Additionally it was probably a landline poll that only boomers responded to, and the Kremlin would've made the numbers look favorable to them regardless.

Countries aren´t evil or good. Countries have interests. The rest is facade. You should now this if your age is double digit.

Putin is not Russia. Dictators have interests too, and they often run contrary to those of the nations they rule over.

 

[Coto]

 

[UnderJinx]

Heard Putin has died. Atleast according to british intelligence service
Have not seen him in tv for awhile. But another of his generals would take over if it's true

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Sorry if it made that impression. Do you seriously believe that Putin is killing his brothers and sisters without a reason?

He has his own warped reasons.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Nah I call bullshit. The subtext there is that Russians know they'd be subject to retaliation for speaking in protest of Putin's actions. Additionally it was probably a landline poll that only boomers responded to, and the Kremlin would've made the numbers look favorable to them regardless.

If reality does not allign my beliefs, reality needs to falter. I am not talking about surveys but real people I know personally. I am not only talking about now but also before the war. If even pro-Western liberals (which do not make up part of the majority of the opposition; something the West likes to ignore) see Ukraine as a red line, then allmost all the others do to. I was generous with the 100mio. Could be 120mio or more. Are they also evil? At what point will you adjust your beliefs to reality? (red line here means: would warn against it, not that they support the war or its consequences)
BTW my liberal Russians friends are not that afraid to talk to me honestly. The law targets public statements. Because everyone knows (including everyone in Putin´s party and those who vote for it - yeah, they exist, a lot of them!) that this is a war. Everyone who says otherwise does so to keep up morale. This is what happens in a WAR. You know who also punishes dissent? The Western-backed Ukrainian government. Western media even covers and praises the government breaking into people´s homes and threatening them for being pro-Russian.

Putin is not Russia. Dictators have interests too, and they often run contrary to those of the nations they rule over.

Putin is not a dictator. Not any more than Biden. Both have unbelievable constitutional power (with some differences here and there; except that Biden is not running anything due to his age and how he was elected). But they are elected. And don´t you mention election fraud. This is not the thread for it. Let´s just say Russia is not the only country...

 

[Xzi]

If reality does not allign my beliefs, reality needs to falter. I am not talking about surveys but real people I know personally. I am not only talking about now but also before the war.

I'm not interested in anecdotal evidence, that's even more useless than whatever the Kremlin is reporting out of convenience at a given time.

Putin is not a dictator. Not any more than Biden. Both have unbelievable constitutional power (with some differences here and there; except that Biden is not running anything due to his age and how he was elected). But they are elected. And don´t you mention election fraud. This is not the thread for it. Let´s just say Russia is not the only country...

Dictators are not elected, and Putin hasn't taken part in a legitimate election in decades. Additionally, Biden has almost zero power without the consent of Congress, while Putin regularly has members of his own cabinet murdered for so much as looking at him funny. Even a failing democracy looks and operates a lot different than Putin's Russia.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

The worst part of the sanctions has already occured. Western countries, esp. the US, stole Russian assets in the hundreds of billions USD. Reducing trade hits the Europe harder than Russia because the resources are located within Russia.
In order to damage Russia, the US is willing to plunge the world economy into even more trouble. Hyper inflation incoming.

@lokomelo: For the same reason the US attacked smaller countries like Vietnam/Laos and Korea instead of China. The only difference, Russia does it in their backyard while the US does it all over the world.

no the worse is yet to come for Russia. The money that's been frozen should be given to the Ukraine so it can go towards rebuilding the destruction Russia caused.

Global banking experts believe Russia's economy will shrink 15% by the end of the year - and a further 3% in 2023 - due to Western sanctions, a mass exodus of companies and a collapse in exports.

The figures could be even worse if Europe fully weans itself off Russian energy, the Institute of International Finance (IIF) warned.

In a report about the effects of war on Russia's finances, the IFF said measures imposed on Moscow by the UK, EU and US would only expand and tighten in the coming months.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-6052...a0c1b1f755a85722b1db46&pinned_post_type=share

 

[JoeBloggs777]

Putin is not a dictator. Not any more than Biden.

not a dictator now where is the opposition to Putin, oh Navalny, Putin tired to kill him and label him a terrorist , now did Trump try that with Biden ?

 

[Dr_Faustus]

Heard Putin has died. Atleast according to british intelligence service
Have not seen him in tv for awhile. But another of his generals would take over if it's true

Im pretty sure if he had we would have heard something more about it if it were true.

Its similar to the rumors of when the head of NK supposedly got sick of covid and died last year, due to the very same assumptions of no public showing of himself for awhile up until he did come back.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

Im pretty sure if he had we would have heard something more about it if it were true.

Its similar to the rumors of when the head of NK supposedly got sick of covid and died last year, due to the very same assumptions of no public showing of himself for awhile up until he did come back.

something going on thou..

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

I'm not interested in anecdotal evidence,

Putin regularly has members of his own cabinet murdered for so much as looking at him funny.

Stop contradicting yourself. Names please.

The problem is not that you dismiss anecdotal evidence. The problem is you dismiss evidence that contradicts your world view. The view that Western military in Ukraine (which had already happened prior to the Russian invasion) goes too far is a view shared by the vast majority of Russians - including liberals. IT IS A FACT. Deal with reality. Now are they also evil or not? Be a man and say so.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

not a dictator now where is the opposition to Putin, oh Navalny, Putin tired to kill him and label him a terrorist , now did Trump try that with Biden ?

So if Trump had tried to kill Julian Assange (https://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/04/politics/kfile-trump-wikileaks/index.html)
that would make him a dictator, right? Didn´t Trump also say - when being asked whether Putin is a killer - that the US also kills a lot of people?

The Navalny case is by no means conclusive.
Perhaps Putin wanted to kill Navalny. Perhaps it was a personal matter. Perhaps it was someone from an ethnic minority he had offended (by Western standards Navalny is a Nazi). Perhaps it was a fan of Putin. Who killed JFK? God knows.
Until we know it is a conspiracy theory.

 

[Dr_Faustus]

something going on thou..

I do not doubt it, I am sure as hell that he is sick and or possibly dying. One of my theories way back when this shit first started was that he was basically having a last ride off into the sunset by going full Cold War 2.0 on everything. He knows he is not getting out of this situation with his head held high, but he does not care. He is going to have his fun until he croaks believing he took Ukraine back.

 

[Xzi]

Stop contradicting yourself. Names please.

https://www.newsweek.com/every-russ...since-putin-invaded-ukraine-full-list-1700022

These are just the oligarchs that have "mysteriously" died during the invasion of Ukraine. Many had spoken out against it directly or indirectly. We all know Putin is responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of other murders in Europe well before the invasion.

The problem is not that you dismiss anecdotal evidence. The problem is you dismiss evidence that contradicts your world view. The view that Western military in Ukraine (which had already happened prior to the Russian invasion) goes too far is a view shared by the vast majority of Russians - including liberals. IT IS A FACT. Deal with reality. Now are they also evil or not? Be a man and say so.

Ridiculous, not even the Kremlin tried to claim this before invading. They only bitched about the vague possibility of Ukraine joining NATO, and then called Ukrainians nazis. Shit was the flimsiest, most transparent excuse ever. You can't re-write that history.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

I do not doubt it, I am sure as hell that he is sick and or possibly dying. One of my theories way back when this shit first started was that he was basically having a last ride off into the sunset by going full Cold War 2.0 on everything. He knows he is not getting out of this situation with his head held high, but he does not care. He is going to have his fun until he croaks believing he took Ukraine back.

Western ignorance at its best: Let´s personify the problem. Once the person is gone, everything will be alright. Works so great in Western democracies, doesn´t it?

Putin is one of the calmest and predictable politicians on the international stage. The invasion was threatened and announced by the troops at the border. The US kept pushing instead (sending weapons, holding exercises, encouraging the regime to take back the Donbass). Here we are. He is perhaps bold (I also did not expect an actuall invasion) but certainly not unpredictable.

If you want to believe that Russians are a people who need saving because they are held captive by an evil dictator, go ahead. The dumb fuck well. In Russia, well fucks the dumb.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

https://www.newsweek.com/every-russ...since-putin-invaded-ukraine-full-list-1700022

These are just the oligarchs that have "mysteriously" died during the invasion of Ukraine. Many had spoken out against it directly or indirectly. We all know Putin is responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of other murders in Europe well before the invasion.

Have you read the article? None of them link the victims to Putin. You have to first show that they were opposed to him before we even begin discussing this. Being an oligarch is dangerous, esp. if your money came from shady sources. Being Russian is increasingly dangerous as well thanks to dehumanization on e.g. German television.
I´m not saying Putin is innocent. I`m saying I need more than this. It is not even anecdotal evidence. It is "the butler did it" evidence.

Ridiculous, not even the Kremlin tried to claim this before invading. They only bitched about the vague possibility of Ukraine joining NATO, and then called Ukrainians nazis. Shit was the flimsiest, most transparent excuse ever. You can't re-write that history.

Claim what? That Western military in Ukraine is a bad idea? It is fucking implied in a NATO membership. The Kremlin talked about it all the time (!)
Or does NATO membership mean that Ukrainian troops are stationed in Washington? NATO membership means the empire sends its troops.

Let me come back to my question. Don´t avoid the question. I will even give you a relative clause. IF 100mio (or more) Russians think US/Western military in Ukraine is a red line that should not be crossed - ARE THEY EVIL?
Be a man and answer, please.

 

[Xzi]

Claim what? That Western military in Ukraine is a bad idea?

They never claimed there was any Western military presence in Ukraine as their reason for invasion.

It is fucking implied in a NATO membership.

No, NATO membership implies protection against invasion, which Russia was opposed to because they wanted to invade, as clearly demonstrated by their actions. It wasn't even under consideration at the time Russia invaded.

Let me come back to my question. Don´t avoid the question. I will even give you a relative clause. IF 100mio (or more) Russians think US/Western military in Ukraine is a red line that should not be crossed - ARE THEY EVIL?
Be a man and answer, please.

I'm not going to answer pointless hypotheticals. There are Russians who believe the Kremlin's propaganda, and there are Russians who see right through it. Nearly all of them will suffer as a result of Putin's actions, and they shouldn't have to.