Switch 2's CPU already outdated?

[SunnyMoon]

Has worked every single time except for the Wii U and its stupid gamepad nobody asked for.

Well, they tried to apply the Dual Screen Concept from the DS line to a home console.

In principle it was great, the devs just underutilised it.

Btw: This makes a comeback with Jamboree TV

 

[DiscostewSM]

Just something to be aware of. Having a newer CPU doesn't automatically make it better. Take for the instance the Cortex A710. Newer than the A78C, and can clock much higher, but when it comes to power efficiency....... it's worse.

 

[Marc_LFD]

Switch 2 should've been released a few years ago as it is so I'm not surprised. I'm okay with the price of the console, but the games and the fake physical releases? They can keep them, I'll play the NS1 carts I've bought until the console gets hacked.

"Powerful hardware" don't mean good games, that's not how it works, and Nintendo delivers the most imitated console games.

Ask Sunny of a Beach and Microsucks, they have to copy-cat Nintendo games trying get something "new and original", without success of course.

This comment almost feels like it was written by an AI, it has no originality or creativity.

What's next, you're going to try and defend Nintendo's Game Key Cards and Code in Boxes releases? Please tell me you wouldn't go that far.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Switch 2 should've been released a few years ago as it is so I'm not surprised. I'm okay with the price of the console, but the games and the fake physical releases? They can keep them, I'll play the NS1 carts I've bought until the console gets hacked.


This comment almost feels like it was written by an AI, it has no originality or creativity.

What's next, you're going to try and defend Nintendo's Game Key Cards and Code in Boxes releases? Please tell me you wouldn't go that far.

Even if the SoC was finalized years ago, there's more to the system than that. For instance, microSD Express cards. We only got an announcement last year about their availability for consumers, and the article mentioning that had said that it was because of a certain "customer" of theirs that it became possible. This customer was likely Nintendo.

This will probably sound like defending Game Key Cards, but I just want to give my opinion on why they exist.

Switch 2 utilizes fast storage in order to make use of its hardware decompression block for near-instantaneous loading of compressed assets in a similar manner as the PS5 and Series consoles. It uses fast internal storage, and uses microSD Express. So carts meant to load games straight from them need to be fast as well. Problem is, that can't be done with 2D NAND that Switch 1 carts use because their design doesn't allow it. 3D NAND does because the memory cells are stacked vertically. Instead of reading each cell individually, it can read a group of memory cells stacked like a totem pole all at once. So 3D NAND is faster, but what it also benefits from is being cheaper at equal capacities. What causes a heavy cost of 2D NAND isn't the memory cells, but the base material they sit on. By taking that 2D plane of memory cells, and arranging them into a cube, it reduces the amount of the expensive material used for the base.

This is all good except for one factor. Manufacturing time. 3D NAND may be faster in read/write speeds, and cheaper to make, but the method of stacking those memory cells is very complex, requiring quite a bit more time per unit. So the situation Nintendo and Macronix (the makers of the memory) are dealing with is the current inability to produce a lot of memory chips. If they were to try and make them in multiple capacities, they'd run a greater risk of shortages. With games from major studios pushing for increased game sizes, the decision they made was to stick to one capacity that technically can handle the biggest games, the 64GB capacity. For everything else, they opted for those Game Key Cards. It's not the best method, but was one that was probably needed for those that don't want to be strictly digital. They can be traded, sold, etc. There's always the question about them becoming useless if Nintendo shuts down the servers, but so far, the only thing Nintendo has done is shut down the means of purchasing games on older platforms. Folks can still download their DSi and Wii titles to this day, around 2 decades later. I'd imagine that physical media would probably break down before they prevent people from redownloading their purchases.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

I wouldn't think too hard on if it's "outdated"' and such. By nature, any console is already "outdated" by the time they're released.

At the end of the day, it's all about the games you want to play on it.

PS and Xbox aren't, they consistently beat similarly priced PCs at launch. It takes years for PC parts pricing to catch up.
It's just Nintendo.

 

[DiscostewSM]

PS and Xbox aren't, they consistently beat similarly priced PCs at launch. It takes years for PC parts pricing to catch up.
It's just Nintendo.

You're talking about price, not performance. To note, the Zen2 in the PS5 and Series consoles released in 2019, and was taped out towards the end of 2017.

 

[Stwert]

True, but in terms of clock speed, Switch 2's single-core performance isn't any better than Switch 1's. I'm sure it'll be more powerful just by grace of being several generations newer, but it seems like a waste to saddle a relatively-powerful custom GPU with that.

Clock speed is only one part of the equation, the real world performance of a CPU is vastly more complex than just its frequency.
You’re right that being a newer architecture is going to make a huge difference in its performance and to give it some perspective, the single core performance of the Switch 2 CPU is actually a little higher than that of the PS4.

Some people may consider that outdated, but for a slim, comparatively low cost, handheld device with a TDP of circa 10W, it’s actually pretty good to get better than PS4 level performance in handheld mode.

Both systems reserve 2 CPU cores for system level use, of course, but on a purely CPU to GPU level the CPU won’t be a particularly large bottleneck.
The available bandwidth of the Switch 2 is obviously lower than its home console contemporaries, especially in handheld which is of much greater concern than whether the CPU can keep up.

Having said that, overall it’s quite a well balanced system, we’ll see some interesting results in a year or so’s time. Hell, even I didn’t expect Cyberpunk to be running quite as well as it does at this point in time, for less than a years worth of work CDPR have pulled off a really good result.

 

[DiscostewSM]

CPU power is not fully based on clock frequency. Their IPC (instructions per clock) are a heavy portion of it. For instance, the Cortex A57 cores in the Switch on a per-core, same clock basis are actually stronger (or more efficient) than the Jaguar CPU cores in the PS4 and XB1 by about 15-25% because of its IPC. If Switch used 8 of those cores and clocked it to PS4's 1.6Ghz, it would outperform both it and the XB1 (that runs at 1.75Ghz). But of course the Switch's CPU as-is could not because not only are there only 4 cores, but it was clocked down to 1.0Ghz.

Switch 2's Cortex A78C cores, however, are at least 3x stronger than Switch's Cortex A57 cores at the same clock. So by comparison with 8 cores, Switch 2's overall CPU runs laps around PS4/XB1's CPU potential. The A78C cores are also of higher IPC than the Zen2 in the PS5 and Series consoles, which in of themselves are somewhat nerfed from the desktop versions that were taped out back in 2017. But once again, Switch 2's CPU is not clocked as high.

The important thing to take from all this that when all is said and done, the CPU gap in potential between Switch 2 and PS5/Series is smaller than the gap between Switch and PS4/XB1. The ability to migrate some CPU processing to the Nvidia GPU (like some physics) helps beyond that, as does the use of DLSS that helps migrate some GPU processing.

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

Not like it matters what they'd use, you guys would complain immediately anyway. Go touch grass, stop being so negative. It's a damn video game system.

 

[subcon959]

The ability to migrate some CPU processing to the Nvidia GPU (like some physics) helps beyond that

Ironic really, since Nvidia just deprecated 32bit PhysX support from it's latest GPUs.

Not like it matters what they'd use, you guys would complain immediately anyway. Go touch grass, stop being so negative. It's a damn video game system.

Tells users of a forum to stop discussing topics relevant to the forum. Maybe take your own advice if this seems like a productive use of your time? Or is your opinion more important because you think you're special when you're really just a narcissist? Why are you jumping to the defense of a giant corporation at every opportunity anyway? Stop being so sensitive about what other people are saying, it's just a video game system. Etc etc blah blah talking points taken from your playbook.

 

[Marc_LFD]

Not like it matters what they'd use, you guys would complain immediately anyway. Go touch grass, stop being so negative. It's a damn video game system.

You tend to be pessimistic yourself, too.

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

You tend to be pessimistic yourself, too.

Really now. Apart from gamers shitty attitudes, where am I being pessimistic, hun?

Totally a narcissist for calling out y'all being stupid, yep, totally. Proving my point. Have a better attitude and stop being so damn negative about video games and bringing doom and gloom everywhere you go just because you want to whine.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Ironic really, since Nvidia just deprecated 32bit PhysX support from it's latest GPUs.

To be honest, that's more of a PC problem than a console problem. Plus it was one solution, not the only one as far as I'm aware. I doubt it will be a problem for closed-platforms like consoles.

 

[subcon959]

To be honest, that's more of a PC problem than a console problem. Plus it was one solution, not the only one as far as I'm aware. I doubt it will be a problem for closed-platforms like consoles.

Absolutely, it's not relevant for consoles at all, it's just amusing to think that a £100 GPU can now run certain games better than a 5090 if you want the full intended experience.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

You're talking about price, not performance. To note, the Zen2 in the PS5 and Series consoles released in 2019, and was taped out towards the end of 2017.

I'm talking about both. When people talk about either price or performance it's always a matter of how much performance you get for your money. It's never just one or the other, unless you actually have infinite money and you can afford to buy the terrible value top end hardware without caring about what it costs.

 

[Ettino]

I went to the Toronto event awhile back to test out the units. If it can run MKW and Metroid 4 at solid 4k 60fps then it's fine with me.

 

[Xzi]

I went to the Toronto event awhile back to test out the units. If it can run MKW and Metroid 4 at solid 4k 60fps then it's fine with me.

I do think Prime 4 on Switch 2 looks great, but at the end of the day it is still a cross-generation title. MKW also doesn't look much better than MK8, though it does certainly look bigger. Donkey Kong Bananza seems like it'll be the first-party game that pushes the system the hardest out of all the year one titles, and I have heard some event-goers mention it showed some stuttering/pop-in.

 

[MasterJ360]

Not surprised the slightest, but don't bother wasting your time telling that to the Switch2 Reddit community. They are so delusional they think its specs are better than the Series X... Nintendo is just now catching up to what the current and previous gen could offer. Probably somewhere near the ps4 pro and that being generous.

 

[Click This]

Even if the SoC was finalized years ago, there's more to the system than that. For instance, microSD Express cards. We only got an announcement last year about their availability for consumers, and the article mentioning that had said that it was because of a certain "customer" of theirs that it became possible. This customer was likely Nintendo.

This will probably sound like defending Game Key Cards, but I just want to give my opinion on why they exist.

Switch 2 utilizes fast storage in order to make use of its hardware decompression block for near-instantaneous loading of compressed assets in a similar manner as the PS5 and Series consoles. It uses fast internal storage, and uses microSD Express. So carts meant to load games straight from them need to be fast as well. Problem is, that can't be done with 2D NAND that Switch 1 carts use because their design doesn't allow it. 3D NAND does because the memory cells are stacked vertically. Instead of reading each cell individually, it can read a group of memory cells stacked like a totem pole all at once. So 3D NAND is faster, but what it also benefits from is being cheaper at equal capacities. What causes a heavy cost of 2D NAND isn't the memory cells, but the base material they sit on. By taking that 2D plane of memory cells, and arranging them into a cube, it reduces the amount of the expensive material used for the base.

This is all good except for one factor. Manufacturing time. 3D NAND may be faster in read/write speeds, and cheaper to make, but the method of stacking those memory cells is very complex, requiring quite a bit more time per unit. So the situation Nintendo and Macronix (the makers of the memory) are dealing with is the current inability to produce a lot of memory chips. If they were to try and make them in multiple capacities, they'd run a greater risk of shortages. With games from major studios pushing for increased game sizes, the decision they made was to stick to one capacity that technically can handle the biggest games, the 64GB capacity. For everything else, they opted for those Game Key Cards. It's not the best method, but was one that was probably needed for those that don't want to be strictly digital. They can be traded, sold, etc. There's always the question about them becoming useless if Nintendo shuts down the servers, but so far, the only thing Nintendo has done is shut down the means of purchasing games on older platforms. Folks can still download their DSi and Wii titles to this day, around 2 decades later. I'd imagine that physical media would probably break down before they prevent people from redownloading their purchases.

If they're using 3D NAND, doesn't this mean bad things for Switch 2 cartridge shelf-life? Those stacked cells are going to lose their charge faster over time, and we're already seeing 3DS carts dying from their NAND chips losing their charge.

 

[Ettino]

I do think Prime 4 on Switch 2 looks great, but at the end of the day it is still a cross-generation title. MKW also doesn't look much better than MK8, though it does certainly look bigger. Donkey Kong Bananza seems like it'll be the first-party game that pushes the system the hardest out of all the year one titles, and I have heard some event-goers mention it showed some stuttering/pop-in.

Oh yeah, depends on the games. Cyberpunk is what, 30 - 40 fps I think and it's noticeable looking worse than the other console version. MKW is fantastic though, especially the 24 players online match. I mean it's a Nintendo console, cutting edge tech is not their thing. Some guy there was saying it's basically on the PS4 pro level. TBF my ROG would kill it spec-wise.