Settlement in George Hotz Case

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SPH73 said:
This is what fanboys actually believe.

They lost and they lost big time.

All those court fees and lawyer fees for NOTHING. All geohot had to do was remove data from his site. Data that has now been spread all over the globe.

This is the biggest fail in legal history. I'm sure Sony spent at least six figures in court and lawyer fees only to realize that Pandora's box has already been opened, and Sony can't do shit about it. And GeoHots gets to walk away a free man. I'm sure he'll continue his work on other hardware. And I'm sure those who have learned from his work will continue their efforts on the PS3.

Sony you lost. You're a loser. This is lawyer fail of epic proportions. Legal eagles will be citing this case for years. This was the day when the big corporation bowed to a simple hacker.

And people say the good guys never win.
nayps3.gif
Check out the stipulations. They bent him over anyway. Sony might have lost, but I'm sure Hotz was out of funds (and Sony knew this), and took whatever Sony wrote.
 
I don't think Sony totally lost, I think this is in the middle. Both sides lost in some way.
 
Argentum Vir said:
They bent him over anyway. Sony might have lost, but I'm sure Hotz was out of funds (and Sony knew this), and took whatever Sony wrote.

rolleyes.gif


Nope.

They lost. They're a billion dollar corporation and they couldn't beat a broke hacker. People were predicting jail time for this kid. Jail time, lol.

And seriously Sony pals, what's with your obsession with Sony "bending people over?"

That must be something you're used to being supporters of Sony and all.

Just sayin...
nayps3.gif
 
Duskye said:
I don't think Sony totally lost, I think this is in the middle. Both sides lost in some way.
It doesn't seem like it to me. Sony gained one less hacker. Hotz had to take down all his findings, and now if he even opens a PS3, he'll be fined up to $10,000 for every offense.

@SPH: Look, I know you don't like Sony. The simple fact is that though they could have won, Hotz couldn't continue. The case is closed, and hotz will never hack another Sony product.
 
Hey Mods, what's with all the censorship?

Seriously whomever is moderating this topic really needs to lose their moderator privilidges. There was nothing offensive about any of these posts. Simply people speaking their minds. You might not agree with what I have to say, and I might not agree with some of my oppenents, but there's NOTHING wrong with this conversation and you're acting like a censor happy goon.

Posts merged

Argentum Vir said:
Duskye said:
I don't think Sony totally lost, I think this is in the middle. Both sides lost in some way.
Sony gained one less hacker.

And Geohot created 1000s of PS3 hackers by sharing his information with the world.

Again, Pandora's box. Sony lost. That's basically it.
 
Argentum Vir said:
Duskye said:
I don't think Sony totally lost, I think this is in the middle. Both sides lost in some way.
It doesn't seem like it to me. Sony gained one less hacker. Hotz had to take down all his findings, and now if he even opens a PS3, he'll be fined up to $10,000 for every offense.
Yeah, but it just seems like both sides lost something. Geohot can't do anything to a ps3 anymore and sony used a lot of money for this lawsuit, but in the end, there was never a trial.
 
Yes, but out of those 1000, 4 or 5 are the only ones who know what the hell to do. I'm sure they're on Sony's list.

@Duskye: Sony used a drop... No, a molecule of a drop of their cash flow. So, they lose basically nothing.
 
Argentum Vir said:
Yes, but out of those 1000, 4 or 5 are the only ones who know what the hell to do. I'm sure they're on Sony's list.

Hell dude we're all on Sony's list.

Just for talking about this subject on a public message board...

Just for posting on GBAtemp...

Just for watching that YouTube video...

According to Sony, we're all criminals.

QUOTE(Argentum Vir @ Apr 11 2011, 05:32 PM) @SPH: Look, I know you don't like Sony. The simple fact is that though they could have won, Hotz couldn't continue. The case is closed, and hotz will never hack another Sony product.

EDIT: I'd like to state on the record that I love Sony products (at least the gaming stuff) but hate the Sony corporation (for various reasons including this case.)

You'll never hear me say that I "love" sony products again. Someone take a screenshot. This is me actually breaking character.
 
I guess in a way, the extra lawyers he got did help. Sony probably figured "okay, this guy isn't backing down, this whole thing is backfiring on us. He's got more lawyers and he's actually fighting. We should come up with another plan."


But, if OtherOS comes back, or people start making homebrew and posting videos and Sony doesn't do anything, then I think it's safe to say that George got what he wanted, right?
 
SPH73 said:
Argentum Vir said:
Yes, but out of those 1000, 4 or 5 are the only ones who know what the hell to do. I'm sure they're on Sony's list.

Hell dude we're all on Sony's list.

Just for talking about this subject on a public message board...

Just for posting on GBAtemp...

Just for watching that YouTube video...

According to Sony, we're all criminals.
I highy doubt watching a video and posting on a forum qualifies us as criminals.

@Vir: I don't know really then, I thought sony used a lot of money in this lawsuit. D
 
Duskye said:
@Vir: I don't know really then, I thought sony used a lot of money in this lawsuit. D
According to little people standards, yes, it is a lot of money. Possibly more than I'll make in a lifetime.
 
Duskye said:
I highy doubt watching a video and posting on a forum qualifies us as criminals.
According to Sony we are; Anyone who breathes a word of bypassing the security on their console, is a criminal.

QUOTE(SPH73 @ Apr 11 2011, 09:34 PM) And Geohot created 1000s of PS3 hackers by sharing his information with the world.

Again, Pandora's box. Sony lost. That's basically it.
In that sense yes they have lost, the PS3 is wide open and the only thing they can do is release firmware updates and unleash ban waves. They did however, stop the person who released the keys in the first place, from ever attempting to hack a Sony product. So in the end, although they didn't get all that they wanted, they still got something out of it, and that was stopping a potential threat to their future products.
 
BobTheJoeBob said:
Duskye said:
I highy doubt watching a video and posting on a forum qualifies us as criminals.
According to Sony we are; Anyone who breathes a word of bypassing the security on their console, is a criminal.
Than sony workers are criminals themselves probably.
laugh.gif
 
I was hoping for some interesting case law or for Sony to get a nice backhand slap for their actions (as it stands that they were allowed and effectively part of the public record might have some implications) but if people can walk away from this somewhat intact (that ruling* linked up has a bunch of terms that any contract lawyer would swat down in seconds) I will sleep happily. I thought Mr Hotz had a fairly good legal footing myself but one can certainly not ignore the realities of the present US legal system.

*the one that makes me most curious is "F. Knowingly assisting or inducing others to engage in any of the conduct set forth in A-E above solely directed at any SONY PRODUCT or that otherwise constitutes contributory liability under the law" which given the tendency for Sony legal teams (well not necessarily Sony) to abuse the English language in a way that would even make a politician blush ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKftRlzh2RM ) the term inducing does not help. Equally with the concept of duality of knowledge coupled with some weaker wording in D) is a hack against a common encryption method that happens to also be used in some Sony product (at the time of publishing*) possible to drop him in it?
The second one despite some apparent weakening terms and leaning towards actual branding is that Sony have been known to make a few chips in their time and some things suggest they (along with a lot of others in the electronics industry) might be heading down the system on a chip/board path more than they already have (to call much of what they have a true SOC is a bit rich for my liking). Equally they sit on and have serious clout (paid or otherwise) for many big industry boards.
The third is the obvious jurisdictional stuff and maybe the lack of an expiration timeframe but seen as this probably falls under it being a continued case.

*would be interesting to see if Sony were switching something up for a new version.

Re fines- read the section carefully " Such liquidated damages shall be an optional alternative to demonstrating actual or, if relevant, statutory damages." (bolding is my own)

On the flipside this is a killer bit of CV/résumé padding for people in that line of work (aside from the obvious but clean room reverse engineering has been a go to practice for a while now).

@SPH73 and Sony's legal fees- see term "on retainer" as it applies to law. Most big companies have this sort of thing or even better they have such things in house.

I guess now it remains to see what happens to the other (arguably somewhat bigger) players in this PS3 saga.

Re releasing hacks anonymously- I am somewhat shocked it was not done that way anyway. I would love to see proper hacker signature (thinking some of the programming analysis type techniques rather than people tagging/signing their work) analysis tried in court.
 
xfcrowman said:
Regardless of what anyone thinks of geohot, I think that this whole episode may change how people release their work.

Any future releases of exploits, homebrew, or piracy should be done as anonymously as possible, or released publicly in a country where the laws are favorable to hackers and not corporations.
I agree with your statements about anonymous releases after this case. In that perspective, the case has indeed set a precedent: hackers will now have to guard their identities more closely to defend themselves. Contrary to FAST6191, I don't think that it's a positive development that one has to remain anonymous under threat of "law". It's not that hacker names are bad, but they shouldn't be the only option of taking credit. Personally, this settlement does not come across to me as anything other than a loss. Hotz is perma-banned from hacking Sony products, and the community will have to be far more cautious than they did before to avoid legal persecution from Sony. At the very least, it is certainly not a "tie," as some others have said.
 
foxgrey said:
I always thought Hotz was a douche, but now I know he is a sell out as well!

Sony is trying to make an example of him and the rest of the scene, selling out is the same as letting them WIN!
Sony didn't win. It's a tie. We're back to square one. It ain't gonna change a thing, the keys are posted all over the internet.
 
So basically.......Sony not only managed to completely own Hotz, but they managed to make him make himself look like a douche for bailing to South America off money people donated?

I guess you can "Kinda" call that a win......aside from all the money they wasted, and the fact that all the hacking has already been done/spreaded across the net
 
One of two things happened here:

1. Sony found incriminating evidence and gave him the opportunity to bow out without having charges pressed against him (my guess would be ps3 sdk)

2. he's a sell-out who took a settlement check.

I, for one, am going with the first option....he's an idiot and he didn't do a good enough job of covering his sorry ass tracks. Nice job, asshole!!! Now you've fucked us all over, and homebrew dev's are gonna run for the hills....giant douche!!
 
P-CHYLD said:
WiiBricker said:
Software and Hardware can be secured up to 100%. Then nobody would be able to hack shit.
If this is true, then why isn't anything bulletproof.
Anything man made will be broken by another man. Trust me.

MicroSoft
$ony
Apple
the lists goes on.

I'm just sayin that it's theoreticly possible to build 100% secure stuff. It's unprobable that such thing will ever be made, but you cant say thats impossible.

Proof? Try hacking an account of someone who has a password like this:

$6tgxgwt55(hztr$$456788jbbFhhZGgg5%%%0=9876563"Ggggztgfxw
gztr54$$$5612§46ujnbvcÜijiuuuuuuuu8ez26stg2666666&%43wwzyya$$$561
2§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$
$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46
ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$56
12§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb
gggztgfxwgztr54$$$gggztgfxwgztr54$$$gggztgfxwgztr54$$$gggztgfxwgztr54
$$$gggztgfxwgztr54$$$gggztgfxwgztr54$$$bFhhZGgg5%%%0=9876563"Ggg
gztgfxwgztr54$$$5612§46ujnbvcÜijiuuuuuuuu8ez26stg2666666&%43wwzyya
$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§4
6ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5
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6ujnbgggztgfxwgztr54$$bFhhZGgg5%%%0=9876563"Ggggztgfxwgztr54$$$56
12§46ujnbvcÜijiuuuuuuuu8ez26stg2666666&%43wwzyya$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5
612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb
$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§4
6ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$56
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u8ez26stg2666666&%43wwzyya$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46
ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$561
2§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$
$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46uj
nb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnbgggztgfxwgztr54$$
 
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