Homebrew RetroArch - A new multi-system emulator

[mudlord]

yeh, make a post on the audio quality issues there with abx tests, and maister will look at it.

 

[nintygaming]

Right, but the tone some people convey in their posts gives the impression that the bugs aren't worth looking into and that it's an auditory hallucination, so yeah, ABX tests will be done, and I'm hoping the results will suffice. I don't know how much more of this I can handle, or how many more times I need to explain it in depth.

The audio issues you refer to are probably easy to fix for someone like ekeeke who made his personal project (Genesis Plux GX) extremely accurate via a labor of love. But here's the problem....the coders involved with Retroarch may not express the same kind of love for SNES, NES, etc that ekeeke does for Genesis. So I doubt that these issues are even "considered" to be an "issue" to them. Toad King told me personally that the flawed 239p modes in Retroarch is not considered an issue to him and the other coders, even though 239p modes are clearly messed up in Retroarch regardless of what 239p game you play, whether it be SNES, TG16, Arcade, or any other game that supports 239p.

Anyway, I'm just saying that the chance of them fixing these audio/visual problems is not looking good, and take it from me, you don't want to get on their bad side.

I do agree though with you though that accuracy is very important, but most people will not agree with you and I on this. I'm still grateful though for what I do have thusfar and I'm sure you are as well. Not even Nintendo themselves have shown much love for accuracy in their NES emulators, nowhere near as much in fact. So the current crop of homebrew emulators are the better option.

 

[the_randomizer]

The audio issues you refer to are probably easy to fix for someone like ekeeke who made his personal project (Genesis Plux GX) extremely accurate via a labor of love. But here's the problem....the coders involved with Retroarch may not express the same kind of love for SNES, NES, etc that ekeeke does for Genesis. So I doubt that these issues are even "considered" to be an "issue" to them. Toad King told me personally that the flawed 239p modes in Retroarch is not considered an issue to him and the other coders, even though 239p modes are clearly messed up in Retroarch regardless of what 239p game you play, whether it be SNES, TG16, Arcade, or any other game that supports 239p.

Anyway, I'm just saying that the chance of them fixing these audio/visual problems is not looking good, and take it from me, you don't want to get on their bad side.

I do agree though with you though that accuracy is very important, but most people will not agree with you and I on this. I'm still grateful though for what I do have thusfar and I'm sure you are as well. Not even Nintendo themselves have shown much love for accuracy in their NES emulators, nowhere near as much in fact. So the current crop of homebrew emulators are the better option.

Yep, that's what I was afraid of, though I fear I'm probably on their enemy list for pestering them so many times. Someone is going to run ABX tests and post them tomorrow. I retract what I said about accuracy, but RetroArch should be as enjoyable as possible, and surely, I'd imagine that fixing said issues can't possibly be the worst thing to fix. So until then, I'm done here, nothing more for me to say and nothing more for me to say to piss off the devs and make them hate me even more.

 

[Toad King]

Anyway, I'm just saying that the chance of them fixing these audio/visual problems is not looking good, and take it from me, you don't want to get on their bad side..

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

The audio issues you refer to are probably easy to fix for someone like ekeeke who made his personal project (Genesis Plux GX) extremely accurate via a labor of love. But here's the problem....the coders involved with Retroarch may not express the same kind of love for SNES, NES, etc that ekeeke does for Genesis. So I doubt that these issues are even "considered" to be an "issue" to them. Toad King told me personally that the flawed 239p modes in Retroarch is not considered an issue to him and the other coders, even though 239p modes are clearly messed up in Retroarch regardless of what 239p game you play, whether it be SNES, TG16, Arcade, or any other game that supports 239p.

Anyway, I'm just saying that the chance of them fixing these audio/visual problems is not looking good, and take it from me, you don't want to get on their bad side.

I do agree though with you though that accuracy is very important, but most people will not agree with you and I on this. I'm still grateful though for what I do have thusfar and I'm sure you are as well. Not even Nintendo themselves have shown much love for accuracy in their NES emulators, nowhere near as much in fact. So the current crop of homebrew emulators are the better option.

You know that this post comes across as really deprecatory right?

I'm starting to agree with izzydeank more and more watching you guys endlessly go on about this stuff.

 

[nintygaming]

We won't use Google Code ever. It's slow, it's by Google (that is reason enough not to want to use it - they produce crap - whether it's a website or a Java OS layer), they have shit policies (killing projects overnight that aren't strictly GPL), and even their web client frontend stuff works horribly compared to Github.

There has been an Issues page for over two years (or even three years - RetroArch previously existed as SSNES for the better part of 1 and a half years) -

https://github.com/Themaister/RetroArch/issues?state=open

I appreciate the link. Didn't know about the Google crap, thanks for the heads up.

Question: Which is the better place to post issues? I'm assuming github, but I don't know if you and the others check for issues here more frequently (in regards to the Wii) or github.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

I appreciate the link. Didn't know about the Google crap, thanks for the heads up.

Question: Which is the better place to post issues? I'm assuming github, but I don't know if you and the others check for issues here more frequently (in regards to the Wii) or github.

If you want maister to read it, then yes, you should post it on Github. I'm not saying anything about audio because it wouldn't matter what I have to say on the subject matter - he knows more about that subject matter than me any time of the day but you have to provide adequate testing results - that is the only stipulation as far as reporting audio issues goes. Apart from that, he is a friendly guy who's more than willing to look into a problem if it's there in the first place.

 

[the_randomizer]

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Did I miss something?

Because I'm sure I already got on your bad side for having plagued you guys with so many posts about what seems to be an asininely trivial issue. Hell, I'm sure you guys are busy enough to not even want more issues tacked on for you to take care of. So, I'm going to shove off and remain silent. My being here and posting these reports only makes me a third wheel.
Man do I feel sick to myself

 

[nintygaming]

You know that this post comes across as really deprecatory right?

I'm starting to agree with izzydeank more and more watching you guys endlessly go on about this stuff.

That was not my intentions. Just trying my best to let randomizer know that not everyone will share the same interests and he and I in regards to audio/visual accuracy, even if they are "truly" easy to fix (not sure, I wouldn't know), and that what you have given us thusfar is really great. Perhaps I should have worded my response differently. My apologies (not in the best mood currently.....still not an excuse I know)

 

[MassiveRican]

I totally believe in posting something once, if results are needed, post them as well, but I highly doubt that bringing up the same problem that the devs are aware of, regardless of how descriptive your report maybe w/o concrete results that the devs can actually use to debug are close to useless other than the aforementioned letting them know something might be bugged/wrong factor. As far as I can see the RA team is very responsive guys, so let's be patient.

I'm glad we have people that are capable of providing the RA team with what they really need as well as people like the_randomizer which is willing to help endlessly, if he receives instructions as to what to do. One step at a time we can help make RA better, and just because they don't want to look into something today(immediately) doesn't mean they won't another day-- or week lol

All I'm saying is take it easy on the repetitiveness lol. @nintygaming you're the man I want this TV so badly, not only does it provide sub 1 frame input lag up to 2D to 3D conversion but it goes full 3D (Which wasn't a big deal to me until I played Shadow of The Colossus in 3D recently, totally won me over now) has 1080P/24 and lot's of other goodies that work for me, the IFC (Intelligent Frame Creation) is pure garbage/crap/diarrhea but other than that "I like". Unfortunately it seems to be sold in E.U. only but I sent Panasonic an email to see if it accepts NTSC signals and if there's a converter if it doesn't cuz I just want the damn thing.

Also found a great thread on AVS forums in regards to service menu for my TV but I don't have the original remote so I'll have to get one online. Sorry for the off-topic bit guys. Just celebrating cuz in the end half of this is so that I enjoy RetroArch even more.

 

[the_randomizer]

You know that this post comes across as really deprecatory right?

I'm starting to agree with izzydeank more and more watching you guys endlessly go on about this stuff.

Well, neither of us wanted to get on your bad side, but judging from how I feel, I must have by now. Times like this I really need to STFU and not report bugs ever again.

I totally believe in posting something once, if results are needed, post them as well, but I highly doubt that bringing up the same problem that the devs are aware of, regardless of how descriptive your report maybe w/o concrete results that the devs can actually use to debug are close to useless other than the aforementioned letting them know something might be bugged/wrong factor. As far as I can see the RA team is very responsive guys, so let's be patient.

I'm glad we have people that are capable of providing the RA team with what they really need as well as people like the_randomizer which is willing to help endlessly, if he receives instructions as to what to do. One step at a time we can help make RA better, and just because they don't want to look into something today(immediately) doesn't mean they won't another day-- or week lol

Well so far, the only thing I've helped with is pissing off the devs. I'd like to think the the issue will be resolved, but who am I to demand people to fix it?

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

Well, neither of us wanted to get on your bad side, but judging from how I feel, I must have by now. Times like this I really need to STFU and not report bugs ever again.

Just provide those ABX results on the Github issues page and maister will at least look at it.

 

[the_randomizer]

Just provide those ABX results on the Github issues page and maister will at least look at it.

Now that I've derailed the hell outta of this thread due to my stupidity.....I'm outta here, never to post on this thread again.

I sent the link to tacodaemon.

Again, I didn't know the thread would get like this, much less piss you guys off.

 

[nintygaming]

@nintygaming... I love u bro! Lol. Seriously, you saved me a lot of time by providing these links and nowadays that's truly one of the best things u can do for anyone. plus u gave me tons of valuable info which I can apply to enhance my gaming experience. U sir deserve a medal lol.

This thread has literally been a crash course for me in video and it seems now its about to turn into audio. Thank you RetroArch, nintygaming and all who provided insightful info over the last few pages!

I'm glad I could help. I really hope you are able to use that Sony XBR to its full potential, because I would hate see it collecting dust OR have to haul that sucker to the Goodwill. LOL.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

Now that I've derailed the hell outta of this thread due to my stupidity.....I'm outta here, never to post on this thread again.

I sent the link to tacodaemon.

Again, I didn't know the thread would get like this, much less piss you guys off.

Did I say anywhere you were pissing me off? I'm just responding to posts.

 

[MassiveRican]

@the_randomizer man I wonder about you sometimes lol..

I'm glad I could help. I really hope you are able to use that Sony XBR to its full potential, because I would hate see it collecting dust OR have to haul that sucker to the Goodwill. LOL.

Haha I was so close to doing that like 2 weeks ago, I'm so glad I have it now. Although it does have a slight tilting picture issue that I hope I can with help from AVS now. BTW check out my last post prior to this one I edited it with some extra info you helped me with and you might have some insight on what I've found

 

[the_randomizer]

Did I say anywhere you were pissing me off? I'm just responding to posts.

No, you didn't say anything, but I feel with every post I make, I'm only making things more complicated, especially when I report issue after issue. You guys are busy enough without me mentioning the audio issues every ten minutes.

I just thought that, well, I was getting frustrated at not being able to clearly explain the issue at hand, thinking my explanations where half-assed and insufficient for clarity. That's why. I never wanted this thread to get so derailed.

@the_randomizer man I wonder about you sometimes lol.. oh @nintygaming check out my last post prior to this one I edited it with some extra info you helped me with and you might have some insight on what I've found

Like how I always sell myself short and the fact I'm too hard on myself?

 

[MassiveRican]

It's not derailed bro, all is good relax, and I thought you were never going to post in this thread again XD lol

Audio issues post aside can't wait for those ABX tests I for one can't really tell I'm no purist, I just enjoy the game, but it would be neat if it could be 1:1, I'd love to see RA be better if not just as good as every other emu we have out. It's not what I'm asking for by any means, I just really love this emu. GenPlus GX and RA FTW

 

[the_randomizer]

It's not derailed bro, all is good relax lol, audio issues aside can't wait for those ABX tests

Right, because I am 100% convinced that there is a perceptible difference, but it needs to be something that can be reproduced, like a science experiment. Derailed or not, it sure as hell felt like it.

 

[Hielkenator]

Changing the sample rate to a higher frequency involves more processing for the CPU.
So change it from 44.1 Hz to 48 Hz to achieve steady 60 FPS is out of question.
They probably change it because all the new era of HDTV has the 48 Hz frequency set by default.
And is the standard of all the multimedia now.

This made me wonder:

48 kHz : The standard audio sampling rate used by professional digital video equipment such as tape recorders, video servers, vision mixers and so on. This rate was chosen because it could deliver a 22 kHz frequency response and work with 29.97 frames per second NTSC video - as well as 25 frame/s, 30 frame/s and 24 frame/s systems. With 29.97 frame/s systems it is necessary to handle 1601.6 audio samples per frame delivering an integer number of audio samples only every fifth video frame.[7] Also used for sound with consumer video formats like DV, digital TV, DVD, and films. The professional Serial Digital Interface (SDI) and High-definition Serial Digital Interface (HD-SDI) used to connect broadcast television equipment together uses this audio sampling frequency. Much professional audio gear uses (or is able to select) 48 kHz sampling, including mixers, EQs, compressors, reverb, crossovers and recording devices such as DAT.

In digital video, the temporal sampling rate is defined the frame rate – or rather the field rate – rather than the notional pixel clock. The image sampling frequency is the repetition rate of the sensor integration period. Since the integration period may be significantly shorter than the time between repetitions, the sampling frequency can be different from the inverse of the sample time:
50 Hz – PAL video
60 / 1.001 Hz ~= 59.94 Hz – NTSC video

Video digital-to-analog converters operate in the megahertz range (from ~3 MHz for low quality composite video scalers in early games consoles, to 250 MHz or more for the highest-resolution VGA output).

When analog video is converted to digital video, a different sampling process occurs, this time at the pixel frequency, corresponding to a spatial sampling rate along scan lines. A common pixel sampling rate is:
13.5 MHz – CCIR 601, D1 video

Spatial sampling in the other direction is determined by the spacing of scan lines in the raster. The sampling rates and resolutions in both spatial directions can be measured in units of lines per picture height.

Spatial aliasing of high-frequency luma or chroma video components shows up as a moiré pattern.

To be short, it could also mean the converting takes up less cpu if it's closer to the source.
Remember genesis audio are not WAVE files.