Hacking Question about buying a new R4.

[vugavavy]

Hello,
I bought an R4i Gold Pro card for my 3DS and it was working great. However I updated my 3DS to V.5.1.0-11 and now my R4i Gold Pro is blocked. I know that I can update the card by putting the latest firmware on the SD card and running it on 3DS or DSi that it is still compatible with. However I do not have access to another 3DS/DSi. So my question is, if I buy a brand new R4 card, will I still need to update it or will it work fine as long as I put the latest kernel?

Any help is appreciated, thank you.

 

[GamerzHell9137]

If the card is upgraded then no.
The best would be to get a DSTWO cause it can't be blocked by Nintendo which means u don't need to get another card.
U should buy it from NDS Card cause its our sponsor ( www.nds-card.com ) (btw they upgrade the card before they send it)
It might be pricey but what do u want from a card that can't be blocked and has GBA emulation?

 

[vugavavy]

Ok great thanks for the help. I cant really afford the DSTWO, maybe in the future lol, so Im gonna go for the R4i Gold from the website you gave me. Thanks again!

 

[GamerzHell9137]

Ok great thanks for the help. I cant really afford the DSTWO, maybe in the future lol, so Im gonna go for the R4i Gold from the website you gave me. Thanks again!

Just to say that the card might be blocked by the next 3DS update but do whatever u want.
I would rather save money for a card that can't be blocked than to get one that's gonna be blocked in couple of months.(btw i am saving for it lol)

 

[metroid maniac]

You keep asserting that it can't be blocked.
It can be blocked. It just hasn't been.

 

[Rydian]

You keep asserting that it can't be blocked.
It can be blocked. It just hasn't been.

http://hackmii.com/2010/02/lawsuit-coming-in-3-2-1/
This is how flash carts boot on the DSi/3DS.

Most flash carts get permanently blocked because after enough updates, they can't physically fit all the info they need to present to the DSi/3DS. For your average flash cart, they have to store the data internally (on the flash cart itself, not the MicroSD), and this has limited space. They have to do this because they can't actually fire up the code to read the MicroSD until the DSi/3DS actually boots them. When a new update requires responses that are too big to fit on the flash cart's internal storage... game over. Put out a new hardware model.

"Well then why don't they do something else to store the data or boot the MicroSD?" - Because that's a more expensive design and they won't be able to produce the flash carts for ~$5 each in order to make such a profit. The DSTwo, however, does have a better design and pulls data off the MicroSD to present to the DSi/3DS (which is partially where the price comes from). It can do this because the DSTwo actually has it's own little CPU and RAM inside the cart, so it can boot up and run code internally without relying on the DSi/3DS.

It's also able to pull data off the MicroSD instead of internally, so for some updates the DSTwo didn't even need a reflash, just a replacement of a boot file on the MicroSD. In addition, the DSTwo can boot itself up and apply a firmware update without needing to be started by the DSi/3DS, so it's the only cart that can actually update itself inside a DSi/3DS that's already blocked it.

DSTwo > everything else as far as DSi/3DS compatibility, now and in the future. Other flash carts simply don't want to take this route because it'd cut into their immediate bottom line, and as we've seen the majority of carts out there are designed with immediate profits and resales in mind, NOT future-proofing.

 

[metroid maniac]

http://hackmii.com/2010/02/lawsuit-coming-in-3-2-1/
This is how flash carts boot on the DSi/3DS.

Most flash carts get permanently blocked because after enough updates, they can't physically fit all the info they need to present to the DSi/3DS. For your average flash cart, they have to store the data internally (on the flash cart itself, not the MicroSD), and this has limited space. They have to do this because they can't actually fire up the code to read the MicroSD until the DSi/3DS actually boots them. When a new update requires responses that are too big to fit on the flash cart's internal storage... game over. Put out a new hardware model.

"Well then why don't they do something else to store the data or boot the MicroSD?" - Because that's a more expensive design and they won't be able to produce the flash carts for ~$5 each in order to make such a profit. The DSTwo, however, does have a better design and pulls data off the MicroSD to present to the DSi/3DS (which is partially where the price comes from). It can do this because the DSTwo actually has it's own little CPU and RAM inside the cart, so it can boot up and run code internally without relying on the DSi/3DS.

It's also able to pull data off the MicroSD instead of internally, so for some updates the DSTwo didn't even need a reflash, just a replacement of a boot file on the MicroSD. In addition, the DSTwo can boot itself up and apply a firmware update without needing to be started by the DSi/3DS, so it's the only cart that can actually update itself inside a DSi/3DS that's already blocked it.

DSTwo > everything else as far as DSi/3DS compatibility, now and in the future. Other flash carts simply don't want to take this route because it'd cut into their immediate bottom line, and as we've seen the majority of carts out there are designed with immediate profits and resales in mind, NOT future-proofing.

Alright, this makes some sense...

So it will always be possible to provide new data for the Micro SD card? It will always be possible to fool the 3DS; the only limit for carts other than the DSTwo is space, and updates are no issue?

 

[Rydian]

So it will always be possible to provide new data for the Micro SD card? It will always be possible to fool the 3DS; the only limit for carts other than the DSTwo is space, and updates are no issue?

Some updates only needed a file on the MicroSD to be updated (usually when the icon itself didn't change and just some responses), other updates would need a reflash but like I said that's not an issue thanks to the secondary update method.

We just don't usually talk about the secondary update method because if people know about it beforehand, they're going to be dumbasses and update their DSi/3DS whenever it wants to (and likely be locked out for 24/48 hours until the Supercard team checks their e-mail and tosses us an update file), and then come and whine to us, and we get enough of that with other flash carts, 'ya know?

 

[metroid maniac]

Some updates only needed a file on the MicroSD to be updated (usually when the icon itself didn't change and just some responses), other updates would need a reflash but like I said that's not an issue thanks to the secondary update method.

We just don't usually talk about the secondary update method because if people know about it beforehand, they're going to be dumbasses and update their DSi/3DS whenever it wants to (and likely be locked out for 24/48 hours until the Supercard team checks their e-mail and tosses us an update file), and then come and whine to us, and we get enough of that with other flash carts, 'ya know?

That's not what I mean...
What I'm asking is, will it always be able to fool the 3DS's "Is this a legit game" check via this MicroSD-reading method?

 

[Rydian]

That's not what I mean...
What I'm asking is, will it always be able to fool the 3DS's "Is this a legit game" check via this MicroSD-reading method?

It's the only flash cart we've seen to use this specific setup, it's also the only flash cart we've seen that has never been blocked by updates. This is of note, as every other flash cart has at least one blocked hardware model. Hell, the original R4i Gold I got for the review was blocked back in 4.5.x.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nintendo-3DS-Action-Replay-3DS-DSi-DS-Lite-DS-Nintendo-3DS/22254553
Devices like the Action Replay for the DSi/3DS actually use the same method of fooling the DSi/3DS into booting them, and they use an update method that requires being hooked into the PC to update.
http://us.codejunkies.com/support/article.aspx?article_id=452
There were some flash cart that hooked into the PC to update too, but they still stored the update the same way as normal carts (so they'd run out of space after a while), and those stopped getting proper updates after a while anyways, likely due to lack of sales/interest (DS is dead and all that jazz).

So hey, the booting method is good enough for retail products too!

While nobody here has a crystal ball, everything points in the DSTwo's favor.

 

[metroid maniac]

It's the only flash cart we've seen to use this specific setup, it's also the only flash cart we've seen that has never been blocked by updates. This is of note, as every other flash cart has at least one blocked hardware model. Hell, the original R4i Gold I got for the review was blocked back in 4.5.x.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nintendo-3DS-Action-Replay-3DS-DSi-DS-Lite-DS-Nintendo-3DS/22254553
Devices like the Action Replay for the DSi/3DS actually use the same method of fooling the DSi/3DS into booting them, and they use an update method that requires being hooked into the PC to update.
http://us.codejunkies.com/support/article.aspx?article_id=452
There were some flash cart that hooked into the PC to update too, but they still stored the update the same way as normal carts (so they'd run out of space after a while), and those stopped getting proper updates after a while anyways, likely due to lack of sales/interest (DS is dead and all that jazz).

So hey, the booting method is good enough for retail products too!

While nobody here has a crystal ball, everything points in the DSTwo's favor.

I stand by the idea that while the DSTwo is the best investment as a flashcart and least likely to fail, it's still possible that Nintendo would release an update that kills it.

 

[Rydian]

Yes, but if you're going to get a flash cart at all, the DSTwo is by far the safest option.