Poker Genius?

[dakeyras]

It has something to do with moderation no? That it is unfair to allow people to take other people's wealth and how it's also not right to get richer without working for it. Also something about it being satan's plan to create strife between people through gambling, which then leads to less focus on Allah and praying and stuff like that.

edit: And of course when you look back at the historical perspective it makes sense because prohibiting gambling prevented the influence from other cultures where gambling was very popular.

 

[Ktaro]

I think it's stupid to say that playing a game is forbidden. Alright it's one thing if you play with real money and get ruined but he was just playing a simple game of cards what's wrong with that!? it's like suddenly saying super mario is a forbidden game oh noez- whoever played it should be banned to hell... pfft

You have to look into the reason why it's banned, it's the fact that it's related to gambling. The example you have given is terrible. A better example would be saying watching two humans engaging in sexual behavior (ie. porn) is forbidden, however as long as it's not real human (ie. Hentai), then it's ok.

@laminaatplaat, I never said X wouldn't understand, I said it's something you guys will never understand if I tried to explain. Our religion gives us a bond beyond the borders that divides the countries.

I think the example you've given is even more terrible are you telling me sex is a game? you could relate any game to gambling as long as there's people who bet. And if you're going to pull up a silly come back as to how addicting poker is look at MMORPGs are you saying they haven't ruined anyones life?
I don't understand where you got the hentai and porn talk from but I do understand your religion gives you a bond, one that constraints your freedom

 

[jumpman17]

That's the problem. You play in these free rooms with fake money. The players in these rooms are either novices or people who take more chances since it's not real money. So you're fooled into thinking you could make a ton of money and play in the real money rooms where you are no longer playing against novices and people aren't as risky with their plays. So you end up losing a bunch of money.

 

[xcalibur]

Eh? Westside and Lyuse, where did you hear that its forbidden?
Monopoly uses fake money, does that mean its haram too?
Gambling is haram, I'll give you that but are you telling me all sports are forbidden because they bet on it?
Because some people play a football match for money or because they allow people to bet on big matches at gambling chains, is it forbidden if you play a match with your friends at the park?
Just like alcoholic beverages. Alcohol itself isn't forbidden. Malt drinks(basically beer without the alcohol) isn't forbidden.
But when you add them toghether its forbidden. Just because one thing is forbidden, all things directly connected to it aren't forbidden.
And yes... Alcohol is not forbidden. Most medicines are made with alchol.

Also, the only reason beer and other such alcoholic beverages are forbidden is because they make you drunk.
At first the muslims were allowed to drink but they had to be sober when they prayed but then allah forbade it all.
I would get you the ayat from the quran but I forgot at the moment.... Trust me, its there though.

I'll ask my Islamic teacher but as far as I know its not haram so unless you have proof don't say anything.

@laminaat: Islam is a religion. It isn't bound by any country borders and the reason he said only I would understand it is because its our way of life.
You can't explain some things.

Also, I am really trying to be a "true" muslim but thats a hard thing to get to in this day and age. I'm in egypt right now for islamic studies and memorizing the Koran (the islamic "bible" so to speak) and thank god I'm almost done with my studies.

And you know what.... "us" guys won't shut up

@ktaro: Though it forms a bond that constrains our earthly freedom, muslims believe that there is life after death and by being muslims we get the better deal (i.e. heaven).
I don't think I know anyone who wouldn't give a short period of unhapiness for an eternity of hapiness. I don't care if this is crap in your opinion, I will believe in it untill the day I die, god willing.

Finally @lyuse, Westside: Please do me the favor of actually knowing what it is you're talking about. I don't want any reply's with "my dad told me so" or "A friend of mine at the mosque said so".

 

[VmprHntrD]

In part I'd call it dumb luck, but also you had a fairly good as far as poker goes chance of winning.

You listed you had the 7 and Q... the layout in front of you was: 9 J 10 A

A King would have one it and an 8 too. Given in a deck that would be an 8/52 faction odds there even if you had more decks the fraction is the same, you had a pretty decent shot at getting a card, not fantastic, but a decent chance as you had 2 ways to pull the straight.

Kamikaze or not, nice move.

 

[Lyuse]

First of all I'm happy to say that I have finished all the Surah's in the Qu'ran from An Nas to Al Fatiha. I don't need to ask my dad if something is right or not lol. I have this book about the sins here and Gambling is one of the most important ones to look after because it could even be in a small board game or something like that.

This is what I have understood from the book I'm reading.

When the Prophet peace be upon him was teaching Islam many of his Sahaba asked him about gambling and why its wrong. There are two big reasons in the Qu'ran why gambling is indeed forbidden The first is and I quote

"They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and
means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit" (Shakir, 2:219).

The second is

"The Shaitan [Satan] only desires to cause enmity and hatred to
spring in your midst by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and to keep you off
from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you [not] then desist?" (Shakir,
5:91)

As you can see Alcohol and Games of chance are associated with each other. In the Qu'ran it also says that Gambling is forbidden because it leads men to hate each other thereby forgetting prayers and God.

The Prophet peace be upon him once said that one of the reasons that gambling is forbidden is because there is an exchange of goods involving risk I got this from a trustworthy Hadith from Imam Malik's Muwatta. Because of this any financial transaction involving uncertainty and risk is also forbidden.

What you did maybe wasn't Gambling but it is still considered a Game of chance and you should watch out for that kind of stuff.

I wrote this all in the Fast reply box so excuse me if I made some mistakes

 

[xcalibur]

I agree that "I should watch out for it" but its not forbidden.
I can see where you're coming from but please think before you say things like "its forbidden".
Both of those quotes you gave me were directly referring to gambling.
I was not gambling but playing for fun which is not forbidden.
kthxbai

 

[xJonny]

Sounds like just a run of luck, if you were playing properly you might have checked it or raised, to bluff.

 

[Lyuse]

I agree that "I should watch out for it" but its not forbidden.
I can see where you're coming from but please think before you say things like "its forbidden".
Both of those quotes you gave me were directly referring to gambling.
I was not gambling but playing for fun which is not forbidden.
kthxbai

I'm sorry but I am 100% positive that even if it wasn't for money it is considered as Gambling and therefore haram but you didn't know about that at the time so you are automatically forgiven

 

[Glacius0]

Where's the "means of profit" in poker without money?

Also, you could argue that poker isn't a game of chance but one of skill

 

[xcalibur]

I agree that "I should watch out for it" but its not forbidden.
I can see where you're coming from but please think before you say things like "its forbidden".
Both of those quotes you gave me were directly referring to gambling.
I was not gambling but playing for fun which is not forbidden.
kthxbai

I'm sorry but I am 100% positive that even if it wasn't for money it is considered as Gambling and therefore haram but you didn't know about that at the time so you are automatically forgiven

QUOTE

Gambling has a specific economic definition, referring to wagering money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period of time.

1) I wagered nothing material.
2) I did not win or lose any money or material goods.
3) I did not intend to win any additional money or material goods.


So tell me please how this is gambling?
It is a game of chance. not gambling.

@glacius: Poker is a game of chance in the way the cards are dealt.
Skill gives you that edge. You could bluff someone into thinking you have a winning hand even though you don't which is where the skill comes in but this doesn't matter much online.

 

[Mewgia]

This is why religions suck (among other things)


"Oh, you can't do this because it says so in the book of fail!"
"no it doesn't say that, just things close to it"
"yes it does and if you do things other than what it says you are a very bad person"
"that's a lie blah blah blah blah"

It's why I became athiest and have never looked back. The only rules I have to follow are legal ones and the ones I set for myself, both of which are very particular and not open to widespread reinterpretation.

 

[TheStump]

interesting how this discussion turned into a argument over whose interpretation of Islamic beliefs is correct.

also @ Lyuse, you said x is auto forgivin because he was unaware of his sins, because in his mind he believed he did nothing wrong.
Well it looks like it still believes he did nothing wrong and will probably do it again, does this mean because he believes he is still being faithful to his religion, that in your eyes he will be constantly auto forgiving? If so whats the big deal?

Also its interesting that all the Muslims here say they are bonded by their faith (beyond borders), well it seems odd that you are all arguing over what theoretically bonds you.

im just making observations. I would honestly like the hear what you both have to say.

 

[cubin']

Gambling is great fun

Poker especially

You just need to use moderation like pretty much everything else in life. Eat too much chocolate cake = you get fat, heart attack, drink too much water = you die, lose too much money in poker = you become poor, take too many drugs - you die etc. etc.

I feel sorry for you Muslims

missing out on so much fun. Just because it's forbidden doesn't mean it's bad or doesn't mean other people can't do it. I DO however respect people's faiths though as long as it's not hurting anyone apart from themselves.

I take bits and pieces from all religions and make my own. You could call it Cubin'ism if you like. This works well for me..I don't understand how people can just be born into a certain religion and just agree and believe every single little thing their holy books and teachings tell them. I was raised in a catholic family but my parents never pushed it on me. Whatever works I guess

.


Lets stay on topic bros this thread is about POKER and such. If anyone has religious-type things they'd like to argue just start a new thread

 

[Lazycus]

Free play poker on-line is nothing like cash games on-line. When real money is involved the play changes entirely. Obviously it was pure luck on your last hand, but who knows about the rest. Until you put your money in you'll never know.

Islam is like every other religion in that there are differences in the way everything is interpreted. What was written by one prophet/disciple/etc. can be skewed 100 different ways and has been. What's right for you may not be right for the guy praying next to you whether it's in a temple, a church, a mosque, a wall, in the woods, etc. To use blanket statements about what is 'right' or 'wrong' within any religion is just silly, especially when that religion is splintered and branched out into thousands of different beliefs.

@ Westside - Do you really believe these posts you made?: "Our religion gives us a bond beyond the borders that divides the countries.", "It's something only Muslims will understand."

@ Lyuse - Be sure not to wager when in spectator mode on SSBB. Are a few extra stamps worth it?

@ all - Give a listen to "I call it love" by Concrete Blonde. I call it love too.

('Mexican Moon' is a great album)

 

[Ktaro]

Eh? Westside and Lyuse, where did you hear that its forbidden?
Monopoly uses fake money, does that mean its haram too?
Gambling is haram, I'll give you that but are you telling me all sports are forbidden because they bet on it?
Because some people play a football match for money or because they allow people to bet on big matches at gambling chains, is it forbidden if you play a match with your friends at the park?
Just like alcoholic beverages. Alcohol itself isn't forbidden. Malt drinks(basically beer without the alcohol) isn't forbidden.
But when you add them toghether its forbidden. Just because one thing is forbidden, all things directly connected to it aren't forbidden.
And yes... Alcohol is not forbidden. Most medicines are made with alchol.

Also, the only reason beer and other such alcoholic beverages are forbidden is because they make you drunk.
At first the muslims were allowed to drink but they had to be sober when they prayed but then allah forbade it all.
I would get you the ayat from the quran but I forgot at the moment.... Trust me, its there though.

@ktaro: Though it forms a bond that constrains our earthly freedom, muslims believe that there is life after death and by being muslims we get the better deal (i.e. heaven).
I don't think I know anyone who wouldn't give a short period of unhapiness for an eternity of hapiness. I don't care if this is crap in your opinion, I will believe in it untill the day I die, god willing.

Finaly someone who actually understands why I even bothered writing a response to Westside for declaring "a game of poker" being forbidden. Most people who believe in a religion don't see these contradictions or just follow it blindly saying this is a sin and that is a sin etc. But never bother looking at the problem from all perspectives as in this case xcalibur pointed out a good example with soccer, obviously there's a contradiction as I'm pretty sure many muslim countries have their own soccer teams. So use some time to actually research your own religion and understanding it as most people have no idea of what really is forbidden or not and follow someone else's preachings blindly thinking they'll become true followers if they just listen and do what they're told.
@xcalibur I can totaly respect what you believe may come in the afterlife though I'm just annoyed at people instantly labeling something or calling someone a heretic when they obviously haven't given it a second thought. In your case I was actually happy knowing some religious believers actually use their brain before banning something instead of following someone else's preachings like a blind dog.

Maybe humans aren't doomed into total oblivion afterall

 

[ExDee]

O_O when I play online games such as GunZ, People are always like

Guy 1 : Pwned
Guy 2 : Sdfu that was just luck
Guy 1 : ur face
Guy 1 : Luck is skill asstard

I have to disagree with that tho

 

[scubersteve]

O_O when I play online games such as GunZ, People are always like

Guy 1 : Pwned
Guy 2 : Sdfu that was just luck
Guy 1 : ur face
Guy 1 : Luck is skill asstard

I have to disagree with that tho

What if you're playing an MMO where luck is a stat?
Like Maple Story?
Isn't Luck then, to some extent, a skill?