People don't like us

Discussion in 'Switch - Games & Content' started by Nerdtendo, May 22, 2018.

  1. Cubuss

    Cubuss GBAtemp Fan

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    High Quality Shitposter
    They h8 us cuz they aint us.
     
  2. softwareengineer

    softwareengineer Advanced Member

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    kumikochan after that exchange I'm starting to take his title of 'Fackin' Troller' seriously lol. It seems gbatemp does have it right lol.

    LOL that's the most idiotic outrageous, put words in nintendos mouth, amount of overreach beyond absurdity and rationality I've ever heard! I hope you're not serious and your title is accurate to this kind of statement lol.

    If you sold someone a product and transferred ownership to that person, you can't have clause of some agreement that says if you do this thing then you can't power it on or use it anymore. lmao. You sold it, you transferred ownership, it's no longer yours, you can't tell anyone who's the new owner of it what they can or can't do with it, you lost that right once you transferred it. (Maybe yes you can block access to your online services, but fk them we don't care, that's all you can do, can't stop usage of the device itself ;) we'll make our own online services no biggie)And especially lol about the 'we do nothing to stop you', as if you could do anything to stop us! Stop pretending, acknowledge your defeat, WE ARE THE OWNERS OF OUR DEVICES NOW BEYOTCH! SO F*CK Y*U ;) Thank you very much ;)
     
    Last edited by softwareengineer, May 23, 2018
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  3. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Nov 21, 2005
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    So if I wander into a casino, get caught cheating they should only prevent me from using the rest of the money in my wallet? From where I sit that is basically what you are claiming but for Nintendo.

    Is it harsh? Sure. Nothing I would not do if I was running a computer security operation though.
    Person with advanced skills, maybe even the near mythical "advanced persistent threat", is discovered with a set of access keys (functionally that is all a switch is -- it is a hardware access token as far as the server security is concerned). Said keys might be random but can be tied together by some means. You are damn right I am going to revoke the lot even if only one has been used so far, only thing that might stop me doing that is if I can sandbox/honeytrap them or similar.

    Equally as you seem to be so entranced by EULAs (though again unless they were stupid enough to put a "you can use it regardless" type line in there it is of no great relevance -- it is their optional luxury service, as long as they don't kick you off because you are [insert usual list about genitals, those genitals you like to fumble, age other than too young, colour of your skin...] then they are free to do so and I would hate to operate in a place where I am and they are not free to do so) then why not have a read of one

    http://ms.nintendo-europe.com/terms/wiiu/Wii-U-Network-EULA-UK_EN-2015-05.html

    ""Linked Nintendo Device" refers to a Nintendo Device which has been linked to a Nintendo Network ID. "

    "Nintendo, in its sole discretion, may allow you to link your Nintendo Network ID to one or several Nintendo Devices. If your Nintendo Network ID is linked to a Nintendo Device, you must delete your Nintendo Network ID and any other content that is personal to you from the Linked Nintendo Device before you sell or otherwise transfer your Linked Nintendo Device to another person."

    "The Nintendo Network Code of Conduct prohibits all illegal, harmful or otherwise inappropriate conduct, including, but not limited to the following:"

    "Gaining unauthorised access to any of Nintendo’s computers, hardware, equipment, servers or networks used to support Nintendo Network; hosting, intercepting, emulating, reverse engineering any part of a Linked Nintendo Device or Nintendo Network or redirecting the communication protocols used by Nintendo as part of Nintendo Network, regardless of the method used to do so;"
     
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  4. kumikochan

    kumikochan GBAtemp Psycho!

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    How is what you're saying in any way similar to being banned on a console that you didn't hack. Lets just make stupid comparisons just for the sake of winning an argument that aren't similar in any way whatsoever and by law are completely different because they are not the same
     
  5. Opoth

    Opoth Advanced Member

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    I can understand why homebrew enthusiasts are divided. I feel the same way. It happened too soon on the Switch - I was hoping it would take 2 years or so to be cracked so that we all spent a little less time of the system's lifespan dodging stability updates, dealing with cheaters and more importantly building a solid base of software, uninterrupted by piracy concerns from commercial software developers.

    I own a second Switch just for emulation that is never going online in any meaningful way, and it's not going to stop me from throwing Atmosphere and Retroarch on there once it works on 4.1.0, but it doesn't mean that I'm happy with how early on things have played out, and people dismissing the above as "haters gonna hate" - you can be ambivalent or even pro piracy and still look at the bigger picture and take some issue with that and I think that's where some of the sentiment is coming from.

    Just my two cents.
     
  6. softwareengineer

    softwareengineer Advanced Member

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    Blah blah blahh... snooze zzzzz... What's that? Were you saying something about securing your bootrom? Oh turns out you didn't triple check the code, or you did triple check it but your nintendo engineer was asleep on the job? Oh that's too bad, and too bad that our nintendo switch has nothing to do with any of nintendo's computers, hardware, equipment, servers, or their network, we're purely working from our own hardware here. Oh you think that what you sold us, and that we now own is still owned by you somehow? Well by now you should have recognized that is very very far from the truth ;)
     
  7. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    From a security perspective it makes total sense to me -- remove the potentially dangerous/leaked keys from allowed access lists. It would be fairly harsh once hacks go widespread (though still within the bounds of law and even good taste) but right now it is an advanced hacker you can frustrate the efforts of so you certainly do it.

    Spin it another way. PC games, some service like Steam. You can get banned for hacking them. Some will ban the computer as well (take its CPU serial and other fingerprints or something) so you can't just make a new account (and maybe buy the game again). I don't see an issue extending the ban to other machines said service and account is tied to. It is all that is happening here.

    I truly do struggle to see any wrongdoing on Nintendo's part here and even if we have to play with EULAs the stuff I was quoting was showing how they tie it all together and thus having it trickle over would be entirely within reason.

    If you can show Nintendo used some dubious means to connect the consoles to their owner then we might have a discussion but so far were are operating under the assumption that Nintendo did not do anything like that.

    If we are talking about a console being banned from Nintendo's online services then yes it does.
    Barring nastiness like the DMCA if you happen to fall under its jurisdiction I would agree it is your hardware and you can do what you like with it, it is the line of logic this entire site runs on and how I approach the world as well. Nothing in that has to do with it being allowed to access Nintendo's private services though which is what I thought was being discussed.
     
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  8. softwareengineer

    softwareengineer Advanced Member

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    Oh alright then, we must've crossed beams... So they DO LIKE US THEN :D jk. Okay fine if they catch us doing stuff they don't like then sure they can block us from their online services, but unlike what 'Fackin' Troller was saying they can't overreach and literally force you to not be able to power on your device anymore and have to basically throw it away! No he was just being a fackin' troller like his title lol. That's way overboard, and I don't even think nintendo were saying that (although it does seem like the kind of thing they'd claim they have the power to do, but clearly the agreements don't say anything of the sort he was suggesting)

    And to your "(take its CPU serial and other fingerprints or something)", yea but that can be spoofed so that's not a foolproof method of trying to permaban someone either.

    So yea we're planning on making our own competing online services anyway so homebrewers and hackers can have a safe refuge to even play online themselves without even caring about nintendos online services if their agreements are trying to prevent us from using their services (since that's really the only thing they can block us from [not our devices themselves])!

    So they can prevent us from using THEIR online services... But our switches have wifi right? And if we have internet on our wifi they have internet access through that wifi right? And we can run our own code unsigned now right? You see were I'm going with this? We can build our own online services! And just like they can't stop us from using our devices, they can't stop us from using our own online services neither, because they are ours not thiers! :D It's simply a matter of enforcing the ownership of what's ours, and respecting the ownership of what's theirs, and not letting anyone conflate the two.
     
    Last edited by softwareengineer, May 23, 2018
  9. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict

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    I don't like any of you either!
     
  10. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Nov 21, 2005
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    For the record the picture in his avatar is of a character from a cartoon that was once known as the fat controller, apparently he has a name these days but meh. I would still +1 his arguments though, I fear you might have misread the power on stuff as well.

    As far as foolproof then sure (any action done on a machine in the control of a hostile actor can always be faked with enough time and effort), not really relevant to the discussion of whether Nintendo was in and has the rights to do such actions.

    Third party online services. Great stuff, enjoyed the previous efforts as well. Share the news when it is done.
     
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  11. McHaggis

    McHaggis Fackin' Troller

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    Oct 24, 2008
    Looks like the sock puppets have come out to play!

    And how do you interpret that statement, old bean?

    It's an EULA. They're well known for having ridiculous clauses in them, and arguably aren't always enforceable in a court of law. Please Google "ridiculous EULA clauses". Also, just because I understand it doesn't mean I agree with it (I already said it's stupid in the quote you posted, but here we are).

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. softwareengineer

    softwareengineer Advanced Member

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    Lol okay so you didn't put words in their mouth, they do actually say something like that lol. Let me do this then I interpret it as: "Your rights under this Agreement will immediately terminate if you do not comply with any term of this Agreement. At the time of any termination of this Agreement, you will immediately cease all use of the to make someone who is sad or disappointed feel better by giving them comfort or sympathy:
    He tried to console her, but she kept saying it was all her own fault.
    I tried to console her with a box of chocolates.
    UK I was consoling Liz on having broken up with her boyfriend. Our failure to insist upon or enforce your strict compliance with this Agreement will not constitute a waiver of any of our rights."want

    They want us to immediately cease making someone who is sad feel better? Not nice nintendo, not nice! :D

     
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  13. Except it was, he said at first it wasn't. Then later he said, "Well I did run some Homebrew on it" he also ran CDN on a PC with his account, which that same account he had in both switches. His bans were justified.
     
  14. Yepi69

    Yepi69 Jill-sandwiched

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    Yepi69 is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

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    Behind you
    What do you expect?
    You could easily modify a Wii, Wii U and a 3DS to play your illegal games and you could even play them online, of course Nintendo wasn't gonna play ball sooner or later.
    You broke the rules, you suffer the consequences. It's that simple.
     
  15. chartube12

    chartube12 Captain Chaz 86

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    Except sites starting suing each other about 5 years ago for ‘stealing’ articles even when they were linked to them as a source. Basically a huge crackdown on multiple linking and whole article sharing happened. Several different sites for several different tv series I visit changed their rules accordingly. Original source only, no more then a paragraph of article (unless it’s a press release, those are fair game) and Arthur of article must be credited.
     
  16. kevin corms

    kevin corms GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Feb 21, 2015
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    Well then, who cares? lol, he was messing around and publicly tweeting about it so he got banned.
     
  17. Hayro

    Hayro Advanced Member

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    Oct 17, 2016
    France
    Here's why people don't like hackers.
    1527240618-cheat.jpg
    Because it always lead to some cheats sooner or later.
     
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  18. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Nov 21, 2005
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    Would that make more sense if I knew about the game?

    Equally how does a shooting game worry about such things?
     
  19. DeoNaught

    DeoNaught I'm here to steal memes and break dreams

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    Aug 22, 2016
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    Constant Fear
    Not sure if troll, But basically all the gear there is hacked, as seen by the weapon with "9999999p" in the Green square. Also the other weapons with weird names, and the same perks four times. I don't play the game myself, but I see what he means
     
  20. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    Ban the cheaters, then. Don't punish the "legitimate" (improper use of the word, I know) modders because of the actions of the bloodthirsty few
     
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