Hacking Nintendo 3ds anti piracy theory

[MissingNo._]

The DSi mode hasn't been cracked yet. I think it's gonna take some time 'till the 3DS is open for homebrew stuff, but i believe that we will see newer flashcarts that are capable of running DS backups and homebrew on the 3DS (on DS mode, of course).

I think they did a good for them and pulled the curtain on us too soon.

 

[Adr990]

Team Twiizers hacked the DSi.
If there are no flashcards in DSi Mode it doesn't mean that it isn't hacked.
For example: PS3.
It's hacked, we got enough keys and stuff to do it. But yet somone has to do it.

Ok I admit, I don't think the DSi keys are in the public. But atleast TeamTwiizers got Homebrew loading on the DSi though a DSi Mode game.

 

[Nollog]

t, it overwrites the flash on the flashcard that damages the card where it can't be fixed. and can't be used anymore.

Damaging your products after selling them is illegal.

 

[Veho]

Damaging your products after selling them is illegal.

No it isn't.

 

[shamiko_]

Don't you think that Nintendo might make use of the "always on" wireless feature of the 3DS to update and check for a flashcart? It would be simple enough for the device to simply run a check with a server when in the area of a wifi hotspot, constantly updating software without the user's knowledge

if it did then thats breaking the law...

 

[CJL18]

3ds will get hacked might take a couple years to play backups but it will be hacked.

 

[Rydian]

Here's a quote from the Wii EULA (that must be accepted when a Wii console is powered on for the first time):

Your Wii Console and the Wii Network Service are not designed for use with unauthorized software, services, or devices or non-licensed accessories, and you may not use any of these with your Wii Console or the Wii Network Service. Such use may be illegal, voids any warranty, and is a breach of this agreement. Such use may also lead to injury to you or others or cause performance issues or damage to your Wii Console or the Wii Network Service. We (and our licensees and distributors) are not responsible for damage or loss caused by unauthorized software, services or devices or non-licensed accessories. We may take steps to disable or delete any unauthorized software, services or device installed in your Wii Console, for example, by detecting and disabling them through the Wii Network Service and/or game software. If we detect unauthorized software, services, or devices, your access to the Wii Network Service may be disabled and/or the Wii Console or games may be unplayable.

First, it's loss by, not loss to, they're saying if the device you have damages the Wii (not the other way around), they will no longer be obligated to cover it or give a fuck about you anymore, since it's the fault of the third-party device, and you'd have to take it up with the third-party for their device breaking your wii.
You know, like how installing an intercooler into your 360 voids the warranty and Microsoft is not obligated to fix it for free if it RRoDs regardless.

Second, it says disabling the device from working with the system, for example how DSi firmware 1.4 stopped all the current flashcarts at the time from working with the DSi, though it did absolutely nothing to damage them.

An EULA is an End-User License Agreement, if you break it the company in question is no longer required to give you support or any services that they had previously promised. There's a big difference between goods and services. For example, if you break the OSX EULA by making a hackintosh, Apple is no longer required to give you support or updates. They cannot sue you for breaking the EULA, and they certainly cannot purposely damage any of your belongings.

Now, again, there's a big difference between goods and services. For example if X company doesn't like you, they can block your access to their free online service for whatever reason, and nothing you can do will stop that, and it's not illegal. However... if, for example, Sony was to remotely disable features of the PS3 (which is considered a good, not a service), that would be totally out of the realm of normal EULA disclaimer stuff, and they would be class-action lawsuit targets.

You know, like this one.
http://ps3movies.ign.com/ps3/document/arti....226894.1.0.pdf

[EDIT] I linked the Sony thing to show what would happen if Nintendo decided to take the last bolded part in the EULA literally and disable/brick your Wii remotely. It may be in the EULA, but that doesn't mean it's legal, as sometimes laws are made that are found to contradict higher laws (like a state law versus the constitution), and then the lower law is overturned... and an EULA itself isn't even law, and there's debate on if they're even legally enforceable at all (for example demanding a firmware update from a company to fix a long-standing bug). [/EDIT]



What I am talking about is the Wii/3DS itself damaging other systems on purpose, not a clause in the EULA making them non-accountable if you fuck with your Wii and break it (which is what that EULA says).

 

[Veho]

Still, there's no way you could mount a lawsuit if Nintendo destroys a technically illegal device you promised you wouldn't use with their console in the first place.

On the other hand, they can just remotely brick your console if it detects any sort of tampering such as custom firmware or a flashcard, and that bit is covered in the EULA. And that option is far more likely than the other one. I'm just saying, the first option isn't as illegal as you're making it to be. There's all sorts of ways to describe wiping (bricking) your flashcard as "incompatibility issues", again, covered by the EULA.

 

[Rydian]

Still, there's no way you could mount a lawsuit if Nintendo destroys a technically illegal device you promised you wouldn't use with their console in the first place.

First, that assumes that flash carts themselves are illegal. This has never been shown to be true of the devices as a whole, just certain brands.

Secondly, an EULA doesn't magically make something illegal (such as purposely damaging hardware) into something legal, please read my post again.
If I put "you will let me have sex with your 7 year old son" in an EULA and then tried to hold you to it, that would NEVER fly in ANYTHING resembling an actual court.

 

[Midna]

 

[ThePowerOutage]

I read an article years back about a guy who pirated an os that went and killed his computer by overheating it. He got taken to court for it, as the company said he violated the eula. he ended up getting fined for the os but the company had to pay in excess of a 1000$ for an new computer for him. Similar sort of thing. In short, if it was legal, piracy wouldn't exist as it would be more expensive than just buying games straight cause if you went straight you wouldn't have to buy a new console iPod phone whatever every time the systems allways active a anti homebrew/piracy detected you on one of these devices and killed it. Plus jailbreaking has just been made legal so whey should the 3ds equivalent be given the same treatment? Sure, currant ds cards and possibly 3ds alt firmwares can load pirate games, but so can jailbreaking though *snip. Sure, the big N will block us but damage our consoles that are ours and ours exclusively? Nah, not likely. Totally brick them, like, say, the equivalent of deleting ios 70 or whatever it is on a lu64 wii. No likely. I can't wait to program a 3ds. Definitely worth learning c++ for. Ooh, just a thought but is it possible there's changes in the programming language? I don't wantto learn c++ for nothing. And one last thing, when home-brews up and running with a decent lot of drivers for Linux, anyone for editing the graphic and code in a low power distro like puppy linux ( the only Linux distro in know apart from gentoo and ubuntu) in 3d. Then people would realise how amazing gbatemp is cause they made a 3d linux distro.
ThePowerOutage

 

[jimwhat]

Flash cards aren't illegal. What you put on them may be illegal, but they are not.

...Except for R4 in the UK

 

[Scorpin200]

"Nintendo 3ds anti piracy theory, guessing how they will stop piracy for all ds systems"

lol ok Nintendo, but now it looks like they are getting games made that actually will be worth purchasing for once.

"Neway... Lets study 3ds before its even born"

who's to say that isn't happening now remember the gameboy advance?

 

[jimwhat]

"Nintendo 3ds anti piracy theory, guessing how they will stop piracy for all ds systems"

lol ok Nintendo, but now it looks like they are getting games made that actually will be worth purchasing for once.

"Neway... Lets study 3ds before its even born"

who's to say that isn't happening now remember the gameboy advance?

Off topic, but gratz on 1000 posts

 

[liquidnumb]

Flash cards aren't illegal. What you put on them may be illegal, but they are not.

...Except for R4 in the UK

 

[jimwhat]

Flash cards aren't illegal. What you put on them may be illegal, but they are not.

...Except for R4 in the UK

 

[GundamXXX]

To the OP

They wont do that for a simple reason, destruction of property.
No matter how illigal they make flash cards, they will never be illigal everywhere thus people can sue the life out of them because Nintendo just broke their property and thats no good ;p

And a Steam like AP thing doesnt work either cuz the powerdrainage would be off the fking charts, unless they make the 3DS with a nuclearpower cell ... sweeeeeeeeeet


But how will they effectivly battle piracy? They cant, PS3 can ebcause its a console nad has more options to fiddle around with for AP but a handheld has limited things to use for AP

I reckon itll take em 4months to break the 3DS

 

[mangaTom]

And a Steam like AP thing doesnt work either cuz the powerdrainage would be off the fking charts, unless they make the 3DS with a nuclearpower cell ... sweeeeeeeeeet

Yeah, that's what bugs me the most about 3ds.What i'm talking about is the battery life especially if the wi-fi thing is always on,playtime would be decreased and im a kinda player who plays my dsi until the juice runs out.Plus the dsi bat life is lower compared to it's predecessor the DSL.

Plus i think that also violates my right as a user since my freedom with the console is kinda limited especially with the update thing.What if i don't want an update then im playing in hotspot and voala fucking update, I mean not all updates are good you know.There are many ways of AP and iff one of them is through this that's pure shit,let the user decide if he/she wants to connect or update his con and not the N decides what you want to put with your con.

P.S.:Maybe I should play under the rock.I don't wanna play in public.It's the wifi thing.

 

[Veho]

First, that assumes that flash carts themselves are illegal. This has never been shown to be true of the devices as a whole, just certain brands.

Secondly, an EULA doesn't magically make something illegal (such as purposely damaging hardware) into something legal, please read my post again.
If I put "you will let me have sex with your 7 year old son" in an EULA and then tried to hold you to it, that would NEVER fly in ANYTHING resembling an actual court.

You're taking it to extremes. There's a huge difference between something that can be described (and waved off) as "incompatibility issues" and raping a 7-year-old. Wanna exaggerate? Your complaint about Nintendo destroying your flashcard is like complaining that an airline company impounded your C4. So let's not get into strawman arguments here.

The EULA is a legal document that's been registered with the court. As such, it can't contain any pedo rape clause in the first place, and what it does contain is deemed applicable, reasonable, and you agree to it.

Now, about flashcards. The only reason flashcards aren't illegal is the fact the legal system is horribly slow, there's no general laws on them (the legislation on intellectual property is a Kafkian nightmare), and Nintendo has to go after flashcards with civil lawsuits against every individual manufacturer, and any legal action regarding flashcards is taken on a case by case basis. And oddly enough, the court has ruled in Nintendo's favor in the vast majority of these cases. "Flashcards as a whole" aren't illegal, but every individual device is.

Still, the thing is, if anyone tried to protest that Nintendo destroyed their flashcard, Nintendo would have no trouble proving in court that flashcards are infringing on their intellectual property and that you shouldn't be using one in the first place. That's half your complaint out the door.

As for the "destroying your property" claims, they can't physically destroy your card (well, they could, in theory, but that's not what OP suggested), so you can't sue them for "destruction"; they can overwrite the firmware and brick it, which goes under data loss and guess what? They can't be held accountable. In a civil lawsuit it's all about the phrasing, and don't think Nintendo's law team wouldn't be able to describe overwriting your flashcard's firmware as "data loss due to incompatibility issues" that they had warned you about. Big deal, half of the code on that flashcard was Nintendo's IP in the first place. And you know what? They're not damaging your hardware.

Again: you were using a not-exactly-legal, unlicenced third party device to circumvent their copy protection? There's no way you could paint that as your "civil right". And as for "damaging your hardware"? Well they didn't. There's no physical damage. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

That doesn't stop people from suing everyone and anyone, though, but the fact similar lawsuits exist doesn't mean they are valid complaints (or even sane).

 

[Rydian]

There's a huge difference between something that can be described (and waved off) as "incompatibility issues" and raping a 7-year-old.I chose the prospect of raping a 7 year old because it's something that everybody knows is illegal no matter what.

Wanna exaggerate? Your complaint about Nintendo destroying your flashcard is like complaining that an airline company impounded your C4. So let's not get into strawman arguments here.C4 is a highly-dangerous item that can cause death and destruction and is illegal to possess without the proper license or training.

A flash cart does not fit ANY of those criteria.

The EULA is a legal document that's been registered with the court. As such, it can't contain any pedo rape clause in the first place, and what it does contain is deemed applicable, reasonable, and you agree to it.I call bullshit on the bolded parts, get me official court documents if that's true.

QUOTE(Veho @ Aug 7 2010, 06:55 AM) Still, the thing is, if anyone tried to protest that Nintendo destroyed their flashcard, Nintendo would have no trouble proving in court that flashcards are infringing on their intellectual property and that you shouldn't be using one in the first place. That's half your complaint out the door.

Actually thanks to the very recent rulemaking by the librarian of congress, those are now on shaky ground.

QUOTE(Veho @ Aug 7 2010, 06:55 AM)

As for the "destroying your property" claims, they can't physically destroy your card (well, they could, in theory, but that's not what OP suggested), so you can't sue them for "destruction"; they can overwrite the firmware and brick it, which goes under data loss and guess what? They can't be held accountable.

You shitting me? Do you just not know how shit works?

Overwriting the firmware WOULD be a physical change, since the firmware is stored in a physical medium on the cart itself. If big companies can sue us for such intangible things as copyright infringement (where none of their property is physically affected at all), then certainly they can be sued for purposely bricking a device.


Damn quote limit.