Homebrew Moonshell2.0beta5(english)

[Styles420]

I know the point you were trying to make, but you said that "Firmwares don't make profit, actual carts does!", which is quite incorrect.

Actually, it's quite correct... while it's true that the firmware is a big selling point of any successful flash cart, it's also included - the only thing you actually pay for is the cart itself. So in a completely literal sense, only the sale of the actual cart makes the profit. The firmware is what makes or breaks customer loyalty - bad firmware will drive a customer to a competitor, but that could easily turn into a shady business tactic if the developers banded together in the name of greed - taking turns producing the good and bad firmwares, hoping customers will keep switching to the next flash cart until they've purchased several of them instead of just one. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the flash cart manufacturers are doing that, just saying that they could...)

But it still comes down to the fact that we don't have to pay anything for any firmware, ever, so the profits come from the hardware.

 

[seren]

Any product consists of hardware and IP. A company has to pay for both.

 

[Maikel Steneker]

I completely agree with Toni. Because of this, I may not recommend M3 products to people anymore or something like that, but let's hear both sides of the story first and don't do anything stupid.

 

[Toni Plutonij]

I propose providing Moonlight with donations aswell as shunning M3 support from the website. GBAtemp is a huge resource of software and solutions that many flashcarts depend on. No doubt boycotting team M3's software will have an impact on them. GBAtemp has offerred free gifts as part of contests many times I'm sure they can reward Moonlight in some way!

The M3 are horrible. What they did and argued with rudolph and now scamming our beloved Moonlight over is unacceptable without an appropriate response from the GBAtemp community!
As I said, M3 boards will never be closed or removed..There are M3 users that aren't supposed to get punished for something like this..M3 Teams lousy policy and handling doesn't mean that cart itself is bad, and should be abandoned by owners!

And again, you can't speak in the name of GBAtemp

and GBAtemp isn't obliged to make any actions in response to these happenings..It would be nice reaction, but people should stop call-out on "rioting"..

Nope, it's still pointless, because MoonShell is released with the source code, and any team can already implement it in their firmware, but they are not doing it, why I don't know..But he wouldn't get anything by releasing the source of a Sakura!!

And also, if other teams make Sakura firmware, it still wouldn't be anything good, because that would mean that all carts have same firmware, and the main point of GUI is that every cart personalize it and make it more appealing! Not to make all GUIs same!

Supercard was based on an older moonshell and it was slow. Afaik they weren't allowed to use a newer code base because of the author not allowing it (using his source code to sell a commercial product after all). The sakura code is suppose to be based around ROM loading and seems to be more refined for that purpose, so there is a difference between the two codes. People looking at the code could find it more beneficial compared to code that had all traces of ROM loading removed. I don't know what code he wrote for m3, for all we know moonshell v2's code could be better, but it might not have been. Whether it's pointless to see the code depends on the code itself, If you haven't seen the code how can you say that it's pointless? If you have seen it, then I apologize. He didn't gain anything by helping M3 develop sakura either, so why not release it and give permission for other companies to use his code?

'Sakura' firmware is not all about the GUI looks, it's also about media integration.

QUOTE

You didn't catch my full point

I know the point you were trying to make, but you said that "Firmwares don't make profit, actual carts does!", which is quite incorrect.

Nope, I have a bit more knowledge about this..I still don't have skills to compare codes, but I know history of Sakura..
It's not based of ROM loading, because first release (Japan only) didn't have ROM support..yes, M3 Sakura (as in Sakura labeled cart, not only firmware) couldn't run ROMs, and it wasn't supposed to..After Moonlights work was over, M3 team added possibility to run ROMs..So Sakura isn't based around ROM loading (that's 100% true fact)..
Again, Moonlight had NOTHING to do with that part of frimware, he was called after all work has been done, to fix some bugs regarding that, but his job was to make multimedial part of Sakura..

From what I understand (and partially guess), Moonligh was paid for his work on multimedia part of Sakura (at that point Sakura wasn't supposed to run ROMs)..after that M3 Team added ROM support, but had some problems, they called Moonlight to fix that for them, and while he probably didn't want to do it (because of his strong ant-piracy policy) he was offered nice sum of money..
After he fixed those bugs, he either wasn't payed or WAS payed for that work, but he wanted more money ie. percentage of every M3 Real sold unit..

That's my guess what happened!

And about firmware not earning money, I meant solely for users that already own a flashcart, not people that are looking to buy it..I expressed myself wrong about that, I'm sorry, but you catch my point

 

[DatVietDude]

Jeez, I ask for some help in the first page and yet no one seem to acknowledge it

I can't seem to find where I put the moonshell 2 and the arm7 and other stuff x.x

 

[Chrono_Tata]

Jeez, I ask for some help in the first page and yet no one seem to acknowledge it

I can't seem to find where I put the moonshell 2 and the arm7 and other stuff x.x

Try asking in the other thread. This thread seems to be for discussing the situation than technical support.

On-topically, I also agree with Toni that Moonlight probably got an initial sum of money to develop Sakura (or else he wouldn't have worked on it in the first place) but the M3 company are not giving him anymore money, which he deserves since he goes way beyond the call of duty working on Sakura (like he said he flew to China for 3 weeks just to work on it). I'd like to know more of the story before judging but if it is true, I would call for a boycott of M3 products (I know I won't be buying anything from M3 anymore if this is true) and a front page article informing the community about it, though, as Moonlight says himself, I doubt it would actually hurt M3's sales much.

Closing support for M3 for this site is just completely silly though. There are plenty of people who already own M3 carts and people who will buy M3 carts without being aware of the situation. There is no reason to punish legitimate customers (if you can call pirates legitimate customers

) for what the M3 company did. (Note I'm saying the M3 company, not the M3 team. I'm sure the M3 development team are completely decent people but it's the people who run the company that are causing this trouble.)

 

[Mbmax]

The EZteam aren't as open as the M3 team... but the EZteam provide support...

Last Beta kernel are called Open Beta. Does this mean something to you ?

Don't talk about things you don't even know and check sosuke forum to see how the ez team is open.

 

[Zarcon]

Even though the translation is REALLY rough looking...even I can make out a few things from it.

Yes! i know you can play games on it!
If i didnt know i wouldnt have developed it! I even went to china( for three weeks) when they told me that they couldnt fix a bug.

He KNOWS it can play commercial games.
He KNEW and worked on it fully knowing the fact so in terms of his anti-piracy stance there was no backstabbing.

Secondly, if he really hated M3 himself he wouldn't link to the M3 page saying to buy the carts and install Sakura, that doesn't make sense.

Thirdly, I'm sure Toni's right in that he got an initial payment for working on Sakura. I know I wouldn't do it without an initial payment. It almost sounds like he wants a % cut from all Sakura cards sold or something.

My point is...unless you can read and fully understand the original post or someone does a proper translation everyone needs to stop jumping on the hate train.

 

[enarky]

My point is...unless you can read and fully understand the original post or someone does a proper translation everyone needs to stop jumping on the hate train.

Why? If not for this incident, M3 would deserve a lynchmob for everything else they screwed up. I'm just glad that people finally realize. Just throw as much shit at them as possible, something has to stick finally.

 

[AXYPB]

OK, there are so many false information here, and bunch of you are bashing without knowing what actually happened!!

I'm not taking any sides, I'm not defending M3, if it's true that Moonlight didn't get payed, that was a very low blow from them, and there is no excuse..
But I'm just telling that this what are you doing should stop here and now, we don't know the whole story, your suggestions for Moonlight to release Sakura source is pointless, because M3 Team added commercial ROM support themselves, Moonligh only coded multimedia part of Sakura, and there are already DLDI hacks for it, so there would be no point..

Also, didn't it crossed your mind that maybe M3 DID pay him, and he didn't finished Sakura, and maybe asked for more money, and they refused!

You are looking just from one point of view, and I trying to stop this thread to go into big flame..

And just so you know, there will be NO removing support on M3 products, because we're supporting users that use it, there are always questions about some stuff, and there is not chance in hell that we'll remove M3 boards..also, whoever decides to break his M3 Real or i Touch cart is free to (DSTT isn't M3 product!!

), but that would be most stupid thing you could do..

Think people, think!!
You can't make judgment by hearing one side of story, and just blindly believe it!!

Amen. I don't know everything myself, but this story is only beginning to unfold and I don't want to say anything until it's all over.

The news on Sakura hasn't been retracted or edited from M3 Adapter yet. I wonder what they have to say about this.

 

[Chrono_Tata]

Even though the translation is REALLY rough looking...even I can make out a few things from it.

Yes! i know you can play games on it!
If i didnt know i wouldnt have developed it! I even went to china( for three weeks) when they told me that they couldnt fix a bug.

He KNOWS it can play commercial games.
He KNEW and worked on it fully knowing the fact so in terms of his anti-piracy stance there was no backstabbing.

Secondly, if he really hated M3 himself he wouldn't link to the M3 page saying to buy the carts and install Sakura, that doesn't make sense.

Thirdly, I'm sure Toni's right in that he got an initial payment for working on Sakura. I know I wouldn't do it without an initial payment. It almost sounds like he wants a % cut from all Sakura cards sold or something.

My point is...unless you can read and fully understand the original post or someone does a proper translation everyone needs to stop jumping on the hate train.

On the second point, I think he's basically going "fuck it I don't care anymore, just buy Sakura and leave me alone".

 

[wolfmanz51]

Oh come on.
Thge M3 team aren't the only ones who used a loader based off Moonshell.
In fact they're the only team that publicly admits it.
For one, no they aren't, teams like the EZ-Team are very open about the fact that their firmware runs on Moonshell. For two, what they apparently are is the only team to contract Moonlight to continue development of Moonshell then refuse to pay him.

Sure moonlight made a mistake, but then again, I wouldn't care if I made something and put time into it and got no money, how about everyone using it?
Have you ever worked a day in your life? Moonlight was working and wasn't paid for it. If you got yourself a job under the falsity that you would be receiving a pay check, you would be rightfully pissed.

I agree with toni, and everyone who posted against the M3 team is a retard, they brought you the R4 you noobs! and they also gave us this card, which is better than the cyclo. (i.e. cyclo in my opinion is R4 with RTS and firmware updates)

And the M3 is what, R4 with RTS and no firmware updates? I think you'll find yourself pretty lonely touting the M3 as the best card in existence. Besides which, the quality of their cards is completely irrelevant to their defrauding of developers.
QUOTE(Antoligy @ Jan 17 2009, 05:31 AM)

Sure I feel sorry for him... but he missed the point, unless he made the cart and then they stole THAT off him, he has no argument. the M3 Sakura at first was just a M3 Real under YET another company. Then they decided to make a new firmware cause touchpod sucked and... well theres a new cart we made that sounds good. I know lets call it M3 Sakura!

Except that you're entirely wrong. You make it sound like Moonlight has nothing to do with developing Sakura. It's what he was contracted to do, and it looks like he wasn't paid. That is the definition of bullshit.

dam nice man Quite the rant if i do say so myself

 

[Zarcon]

Even though the translation is REALLY rough looking...even I can make out a few things from it.

Yes! i know you can play games on it!
If i didnt know i wouldnt have developed it! I even went to china( for three weeks) when they told me that they couldnt fix a bug.

He KNOWS it can play commercial games.
He KNEW and worked on it fully knowing the fact so in terms of his anti-piracy stance there was no backstabbing.

Secondly, if he really hated M3 himself he wouldn't link to the M3 page saying to buy the carts and install Sakura, that doesn't make sense.

Thirdly, I'm sure Toni's right in that he got an initial payment for working on Sakura. I know I wouldn't do it without an initial payment. It almost sounds like he wants a % cut from all Sakura cards sold or something.

My point is...unless you can read and fully understand the original post or someone does a proper translation everyone needs to stop jumping on the hate train.

On the second point, I think he's basically going "fuck it I don't care anymore, just buy Sakura and leave me alone".

True, this just reinforces my point. The translation is a bit too rough for people to be picking sides at the moment.
If it's something really bad I'm sure the M3 team will comment on it sooner or later. There are too many flashcart options these days so they can't really afford a bad rep.

 

[wolfmanz51]

Jeez, I ask for some help in the first page and yet no one seem to acknowledge it

I can't seem to find where I put the moonshell 2 and the arm7 and other stuff x.x
Try asking in the other thread. This thread seems to be for discussing the situation than technical support.

On-topically,...

no this is a MULTI TOPIC THREAD its about moonshell beta 5 and why it could bet the last. so to finaly help DatVietDude check your pm box ill help you that way P.S> sorry about the wait and the flaming
heres what I sent you
"what flash cart are you using?
Here are some things to try patch the "moonshl2.nds" file with a dldi patch unless your cart has auto DlDi patching and if you are unfamiliar with the term Google It or check your carts manual
then place the "moonshl2.nds" also known as a Binary file and the "Moonshl2" folder on the root of your card at this point dependig on what flash cart you have it should work by loading the Binary "moonshl2.nds" from your flash cart menu.
If your cart has a link to it from the main menu I can show you another setup.
good luck hope I helped and if you need help with any other DS stuff just ask me I'll be glad to help and youl find i'm very knowledgeable about this stuff"

Posts merged
QUOTE(Zarcon @ Jan 17 2009, 06:54 PM)

True, this just reinforces my point. The translation is a bit too rough for people to be picking sides at the moment.
If it's something really bad I'm sure the M3 team will comment on it sooner or later. There are too many flashcart options these days so they can't really afford a bad rep.

well the translation may be rough but im pretty shure its right I'll translate it if I have time tonight

 

[xjenova]

I think its wise to note that he may only be bitter towards M3 Japan. It's possible the other M3 divisions (europe/usa or china) may have little to no involvement in this case. After all, he was promised they will not develop the japanese version as well as not selling sakura IN Japan.

So i say its best to give the other M3 divisions a say in the matter before passing judgement.

 

[enarky]

I think its wise to note that he may only be bitter towards M3 Japan. It's possible the other M3 divisions (europe/usa or china) may have little to no involvement in this case. After all, he was promised they will not develop the japanese version as well as not selling sakura IN Japan.

So i say its best to give the other M3 divisions a say in the matter before passing judgement.

And... that's because he went three weeks to China? Get real, there's no china/japan/eu/usa division.

 

[xjenova]

I think its wise to note that he may only be bitter towards M3 Japan. It's possible the other M3 divisions (europe/usa or china) may have little to no involvement in this case. After all, he was promised they will not develop the japanese version as well as not selling sakura IN Japan.

So i say its best to give the other M3 divisions a say in the matter before passing judgement.

And... that's because he went three weeks to China? Get real, there's no china/japan/eu/usa division.

Um... as he said in his post:

??M3????????????????????????????????????????

"From here on, M3 JAPAN promised they will stop developing the japanese version as well as stop selling it."

Either hes lying or there IS a japan division as well as other divisions like EU/US and china.

 

[enarky]

Or it's just a retailer that has exclusive rights for Japan. Same situation as Acekard in Korea.

I highly doubt M3 has any "divisions".

 

[xjenova]

maybe you are right...

But i dont think that a simple retailer would also be involved in the developing of the firmware. They must be more than just a retailer, otherwise he wouldnt have been promised to stop its developing.

 

[Platinum*]

I imagined the next several years of my life would gradually beat me half to death with weak punches, but I just took a huge blow and am now on the verge of death. Moonlight here. Good evening.

I was promised many things over the phone with the company president, but they didn't deliver. I was told that if I had anything to say, I should say it directly. So I'll give it to you straight!
Yes! i developed M3 sakura. Buy this and install this, and you can play comercial games as well as having the pleasant Sakura firmware. I havent tried it, tho. Yes! i know you can play games on it!
If i didnt know i wouldnt have developed it! I even went to china( for three weeks) when they told me that they couldnt fix a bug.
Even though sakura sells i wont get a yen out of it but, i guess if the sales are in the millions, i will at least get the satisfaction of knowing that it's like the Grand Hit of a small-medium game maker, wont i??? I didn't wish for this! Anyways, since whatever i say will probably have no effect on the sells, you can feel relieved.

Yes! I created M3 Sakura! If you buy and use it, you can get firmware that plays commercial games! But I haven't tried it myself! Yes, I know that it plays games! You would think that if I could create Sakura, I would at least know about that! I even went all the way to China because they told me some of the bugs couldn't be fixed! For 3 weeks!...
Even if Sakura sells I won't see a single yen of the profits...

I have decided to stop developing for the DS. For the longest time I've been putting up with crap, so there, I've said it directly...

I have put up with a lot of animosity over this matter, and there are probably a lot of people who would be happy if I died. Well, goodbye.

Don't bother sending mail. I'll just delete them without reading them.

Oh boo hoo. Cry your self a river and then drown in it. Yes, you created M3 sakura. I think we understood that after the basic repeats in that message.
You're going to eSuicide because you "won't see a single yen of the profits"? LOL. Okay sure, I can understand if you're pissed since they promised you a bunch of stuff over the phone or whatever, but at least be appreciative that almost every M3 User knows what "M3 Sakura" is and probably used it. Anyway, Judging by the tone of that message, I'd guess that you're heading towards some form of self-destruction. the universe isn't hanging on to the development of M3 Sakura by a thin string. Go take a walk. Breath air. Calm down. Instead of completely halting your development for DS, just stop your affiliation with M3. No one will be 'happy' if you die. You're not America's Most Hated.

It's pretty funny how majority of the people turned on M3 because a mere application's development was cut loose. The world goes on. Don't cry about it.

ANYWAY.

Yay. MoonShell.